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frozenwastes wrote:
Well, except they don't.

Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view. If you look at those same reports you will see that they have listed nearly 50 mil in profit over the last four years, and have not actually posted a losing quarter since 2007. Their last losing quarter was followed by a 7 mil profit quarter imediately afterwords. They do not have a sales issue, nor a revenue issue or a profit issue. They have a public relations issue, given the rather public finecast price increase. Oddly enough the reasoning for the finecast price increase is attributed to costs for casting, though increases were unilateral. They raised codex prices based on finecast profit/loss algorithms...really?

I don't buy it. No pun intended.

filbert wrote:I seem to remember a big discussion about it after the Finecast price hike. Killkrazy made a spreadsheet calculating what how prices would be if they followed inflation and what they are actually, if you have the patience and the aptitude to work the Dakka search engine to find the relevant thread.

Patience, yes.

Aptitude, no.

Link?

FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

You're on.

I'm probably buying a new car by March, so that means all of my extra budget will go into that so I can have it paid off in a year. So if I buy anything, it'll be battlefoam trays for some of my 17 armies that I already have.


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Haeslich wrote:

frozenwastes wrote:
Well, except they don't.

Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view. If you look at those same reports you will see that they have listed nearly 50 mil in profit over the last four years, and have not actually posted a losing quarter since 2007. Their last losing quarter was followed by a 7 mil profit quarter imediately afterwords. They do not have a sales issue, nor a revenue issue or a profit issue. They have a public relations issue, given the rather public finecast price increase. Oddly enough the reasoning for the finecast price increase is attributed to costs for casting, though increases were unilateral. They raised codex prices based on finecast profit/loss algorithms...really?

I don't buy it. No pun intended.

Exactly. They've been posting profits. What the howlers are going on about is that sales numbers have been down. Technically, the retail division is struggling (shocker, I mean , why would a niche hobby segment of a niche hobby be struggling in a retail market that's positively murderous? Must be evil Games Workshop) The company as a whole is still healthy and they've been making money off of the IP (in the form of video game licensing etc.)

Lorizael wrote:While I don't condone GW prices, I think it's important that people actually use facts in these discussions:

Price rises are inacted every single June. At no other time in the year is there a price rise (such as March as stated earlier). (Tax increase is an obvious exception- the prices rose the same as they lowered when the VAT was lowered the year before).
The entire range does not have a price increase in June- only some lines. Normally the same line won't receive a price increase 2 years in a row and often has 4 years between rises.

True, people like to make a big deal when cost of some single miniature rises 25%, and then nerd rage "GW PRICES RISE 25% EVERY YEAR!!!111". But when you average it out over the entire range, most of which see only very small increase or none at all, then the increase is not all that big. Also, some models have become signifantly cheaper when changing from metal to plastic (most notably Ork Killa Kans, whichs price was cut by over a half).

Also, it is folly to assume that a single industry could not have price increase pressure higher than average inflation rate (CPI is pretty much a crock these days anyway, artifically weighted to be low so politicians look good). Not saying that it is really the case with GW, but there is no reason to assume they should "follow" the inflation. I know many hobbies where cost of equipment has risen signifantly higher than the inflation rate over the last 20 or 30 years.

If one wants to file a real complaint over GW's current pricing policy, one should look at the Battleforces and other boxed sets, which have seen very steep increases in last 2-3 years.

Hi folks.
May I remind posters the title of the thread is 'how have GW prices changed?'

I assumed this warented a comparison of the current prices to previous prices with 'the cost of living rises' eg inflation taken into account .

You can argue that GW has horendouly high overheads due to incompetant managment ,or I (and many others,) have NOT hade a pay rise in line with inflation for the last decade!
Or a mix of lots of other factors we could argue over.

I simply used the rate of inflation as a base line to allow a reasonable comparison to be made.

I used the IG Catachan minis as they ARE the SAME models that were 60p each on release, and are now £1.80 each.
And I assumed the Space Marine Tactical Boxed set was identical too.

The basic fact is as GW plc increase prices over the rate of inflation year on year.It prices more and more people out of the GW hobby.
A decade ago the prices to collect a 'full army' were aproximatley HALF of what it costs now , in real terms.
(Due to lower model count and higher model PV coupled with price rises over inflation.)

If the SAME amount of customers were buying the same amount of product as they were a decade ago.GW plc would have a turn over in exess of of £230 M this year.Not just £121M.

And as GW have to raise prices at an exponetial rate to cover the exponential loss of customers ,(due to raising the prices.)
The £250 for a box of 10 tactical marines is closer than you think.....

GW tend to raise prices too high

this is why i mostly play warmachine

warmachine full army £100 including rulebook

warhammer 40K full 2000p army £250 including rulebook

Basically speaking, prices have tripled over the course of the last decade.

GW are still making healthy profit, and therefore will continue to raise prices. There is a price rise planned within the next few months, according to rumours.

Don't like it, start voting with your wallet.

Haeslich wrote:
Comparing revenue to profit is a slightly skewed view.

I never once compared revenue to profit. Since I never talked about expenses or costs of goods sold, I couldn't have mentioned profit.

Profit is meaningless when you're trying to get a handle on unit sales and numbers of customers. This is basic accounting.

Units sold x price = revenue
revenue - expenses = profit

There is simply no reason to use either expenses or profits in any calculation to figure out year over year changes in units sold if you know the revenue.

Basic algebra FTW.


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Worglock wrote:
Exactly. They've been posting profits. What the howlers are going on about is that sales numbers have been down. Technically, the retail division is struggling (shocker, I mean , why would a niche hobby segment of a niche hobby be struggling in a retail market that's positively murderous? Must be evil Games Workshop) The company as a whole is still healthy and they've been making money off of the IP (in the form of video game licensing etc.)

If I have 100 customers and make $10000 and the year after that I have 90 customers and make $9900 dollars and then 80 customers and then $9500 dollars and then 70 and down to $8000 and then 60 and down to $7000 and then 50 and down to $6500, my business is healthy? Just because I'm managed to cut costs enough to keep from losing money every year?

GW has been on a steady decline since the end of the LOTR boom. They've had to lay off workers, close stores and even close entire divisions like GW Canada (!). They are doing whatever they need to do to avoid losing money. But the idea that this makes them robust or healthy is just ludicrous. If you went to an investment banker and asked them for money and told them your unit sales are down by 10% a year for the last 5 years, he'd laugh you out of his office unless you came in with a very serious "help us turn this around" approach.

GW used to have a virtual monopoly on fantasy and sci-fi miniature wargaming. Any competition swiftly failed. A lot has changed over the last 10 years. GW gave up half their market because they confused a virtual monopoly with a real one and started doing monopolistic price increases. Unfortunately for them, if you do monopolistic price increases and don't have an actual monopoly your unit sales drop.

In half in less than a decade.

Here's a little exercise that might help you understand where GW is going wrong:

If making a plastic kit costs you $100,000 in development costs, tooling, design work, etc., and costs you $5 a kit to produce each boxed product, are you better off going for volume or going for high prices and lower sales numbers?

GW is geared towards mass production on their manufacturing end but then price and market for lower volume and higher price on the retail end. It's a total disconnect.

Unfortunately for them, they can't just switch gears. Lowering prices and going for volume doesn't work when you've lose half your customer base over the last decade. Their retail and marketing side of the business just isn't capable of moving the product and getting the customers in.

GW better keep developing their video game licensing to make them more money because their core business is stagnating after a major decline. Maybe the Hobbit will turn things around for them a bit, but will it be a repeat of the money coming in during the LOTR movie boom? Probably not.

frozenwastes wrote:
GW is geared towards mass production on their manufacturing end but then price and market for lower volume and higher price on the retail end. It's a total disconnect.

I 100% agree with this. If they priced their mass produced minis accordingly then yes, they would be walking towards a brighter sustained future. As it stands only lateral events such as Hobbit movie, videogames etc will save GW core biz... I wonder for how long.

Look at azhag the slaughterer. He is worth ( I think) $150 AU. Are they serious? For one model?

$151AU

DoctorZombie wrote:

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation?

LoTR : All of these are the same models with no changes...based on 2004/2005 prices

Box of Uruk-hai - '04/'05 was $20...2011 $33
Box of Minus Tirth Warriors - was $20...now $33
Warg riders were $20...now $25.5
Box of Minus Tirth Knights was $20...now $25.5
Metal blisters were $9 for 3 'human' sized models...now $15

You be the judge whether the rise is inflation...

Norn King wrote:Look at azhag the slaughterer. He is worth ( I think) $150 AU. Are they serious? For one model?

Well, one gigantic model. Plastic models the same size only go for $50au less.

Blood Knights, there's something ridiculous. $165au for 5 cavalry models.

Or Archaon. $83au for one cavalry model.

Sheck2 wrote:

DoctorZombie wrote:

I am a younger gamer and was wondering how the GW prices have gone up in relation to inflation?

LoTR : All of these are the same models with no changes...based on 2004/2005 prices

Box of Uruk-hai - '04/'05 was $20...2011 $33
Box of Minus Tirth Warriors - was $20...now $33
Warg riders were $20...now $25.5
Box of Minus Tirth Knights was $20...now $25.5
Metal blisters were $9 for 3 'human' sized models...now $15

You be the judge whether the rise is inflation...

Don't forget the boxed set of Ringwraiths, going from like 50 something to $85.25 Canadian. Wow. I also just found a old WD behind my book shelf (we are moving so packing stuff sucks although I have found lots of little treasures in my quest to clean)

Boss Zagstruck Jan 2009 $23.00- Jan 2012 $30.00 (all prices canadian)
Ork Battle Wagon Jan 2009 $55.00- Jan 2012 $79.25 (WTF!!! )
Ork Nobz Jan 2009 $30- Jan 2012 $30.00
Ork Kaptin Badrukk Jan 2009 $25.00- Jan 2012 $26.50
Ork boyz Jan 2009 $30.00- Jan 2012 $34.75
Ork boss Snikrot 09 $16- 2012 $19.25

Most of them are reasionably priced, Zaggy blew me away but then again he's in Finecase so that explains it better then I ever could. Same with the battle wagon $24.50 over three years? Wow, just wow. Thats a 45% price rise in three years.

Damn the GW website depresses me. I guess until people start voting with their wallets, the 'Annual GW PLC(C,tm) price adjustment' will continue on with no end in sight. One question that I asked and didn't get a answer for was to the people who still buy GW stuff " What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Will you pay £100 pounds for 10 Tactical Marines? Is one more 'price adjustment' one to many? I am just genuinely curious as to what it would take for some people to go "They want how much for X ! Feth that I am done."

They're also the only LotR models I have considered purchasing.

At $124 (up from $90 iirc) they are going to stay considered at best...

One question that I asked and didn't get a answer for was to the people who still buy GW stuff " What will be the straw that breaks the camel's back? Will you pay £100 pounds for 10 Tactical Marines? Is one more 'price adjustment' one to many? I am just genuinely curious as to what it would take for some people to go "They want how much for X ! Feth that I am done."

Well, the last price hike was too much for me to buy new BUT I did start a second hand ork army that lead me to buy some wagons from my flgs. I was tired of playing marines so I waffled. I'm also really interested in seeing what this WHFB Vampire Counts update seems like as I got a bunch of 'other' models to stand in for my undead. So it's too much to buy new but if a good deal 2nd hand happens (or if another friend pails and passes me the buck) I may see what's going on.

*edited for grammar

Hi all.
GW got comparitivley too expencive for me about 4 years ago.
I am sure lots of people are so fond of 40k/WH they will continue to spend what they can on them.(Eg they will spend the same amout each year , but just get less for thier money.)

However, gaming is a social hobby, and what is popular gets the gaming group.

If you cant get a game of 40k/ WH at your games club because everyone else has been priced out, you have the chioce to switch to the new popular game or play only in a GW store.
Many will simply switch to the new most popular game.

A decade a go nearly every one came to non historical table top minature gameing through GW .(85 to 90 %)
Now there are a much wider spectrum of companies games new player start on.(GW has lost over 40% of its customer base!)

GW plc is shedding customers at an ever increasing rate.With the rise in popularity of other games/companies products, the 'tipping point' may be closer that some people think...

So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

May I ask you why do you prefer not to use ebay? I'm not in Aus but in Japan, we pay similar if not more exorbitant prices. Since wayland and other official discount stores have stopped shipping to Japan, I've found a few rather reputable ebay-based stores that sell at the same discount and are fully willing to ship out to JP/Aus.

These stores are practically and functionally the same as wayland or any other online store, but they just use the ebay/paypal framework as a shopfront.

Let's just say that GW have never LOWERED prices.

Any company I use as a vendor has an annual price increase. Normally around 2-3% per year. My prices go up to my customers every year for what they pay in labor. It is a part of being a business. I don't understand why everyone expects no type of increases to occur?


I must admit it is probably the cheapest hobby I have by far so maybe that skews my view slightly.

Sycak wrote:Any company I use as a vendor has an annual price increase. Normally around 2-3% per year. My prices go up to my customers every year for what they pay in labor. It is a part of being a business. I don't understand why everyone expects no type of increases to occur?


I must admit it is probably the cheapest hobby I have by far so maybe that skews my view slightly.

Considering that we've had single price increases that have hit the 25% range (even higher?), I'd hardly call our reactions unreasonable.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Let's just say that GW have never LOWERED prices.

Except for Lictors.

Kouzuki wrote:

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

May I ask you why do you prefer not to use ebay? I'm not in Aus but in Japan, we pay similar if not more exorbitant prices. Since wayland and other official discount stores have stopped shipping to Japan, I've found a few rather reputable ebay-based stores that sell at the same discount and are fully willing to ship out to JP/Aus.

These stores are practically and functionally the same as wayland or any other online store, but they just use the ebay/paypal framework as a shopfront.

I probably should have clarified, eBay stores would be fine. It is trawling through second hand items from random sellers I don't like. That and I'm not terribly familiar with eBay.

If you know good eBay stores I would be glad if you told me

Does GW let American discounters sell to the Southern Hemishphere?

Teh_K42 wrote:So what are my fellow Aussies doing to get their GW fix?

I refuse to pay AU prices, and I would prefer not to use eBay unless there are no alternatives.

You could give Dicebucket a try. It's a US store, so the embargo doesn't affect them, they sell at discounted US prices, which is good for us since our dollar is nearly the same, and they have a shopping cart system. You save about 60-70% sometimes off Australian prices.

However, they only sell plastic kits. Basically, what they do is take the kits, rip them out of the box, and repack all of the stuff you ordered into one big box. This gets around US online stores not allowed to have a cart system, because the stuff is technically not new. Shipping is $25us for the first $100us spent, then goes up $10-$15us every $100us after that.