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-Loki- wrote:

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation.

'Practically the same design'? It's an updated kit. It's going to look similar.

Not defending the inflation here, but that statement is just stupid.

Stupid is a bit harsh don't you think?

Its basically the same as plug and play space marines these days (which are of a good quality in all fairness).

If I was a 'nid player and I was offered the option of 12 Genestealers for £5 in that vein, I'd bite their hand off.

So, yes, it is inflation. Its the same model, same base design (old one - http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmIPGJDGHhYAMNy8x790NbYuV1T2r0O1pLb1T_c3Iwg02z7uYThKYaytwW new one - http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/e/ec/Tyranid_Genestealers.jpg).

Stupid would be "I used to get an old Rhino for £10 and the new ones are £20.50 now". They're massively different quality of model.

They recently (last march I think..) hiked the price around 25%, then shortly after that when UK VAT rose, they increased it to cover the tax rather than eat it like pretty much other company even though they'd just upped the cost.

Then, with the release of finecast there was another price hike, the supposedly cheaper medium of finecast replacing the supposedly more expensive medium of metal seeing those models becoming roughly another 30%-50% more expensive.

In 3rd edition your standard troop (i.e. Space Marines, Dark Eldar Warriors etc) was about £12 for a full squad, not the £15-18 for half a unit.

Furthermore certain boxes such as the old DE warriors before the update, Necron Warriors and whatnot that haven't changed in the last decade are brought up to match.

The starter pack was £40-50, came with 2 armies, the full rulebook (the hardback one), templates, dice and a basic paint set.

In the last 10 years most things have increased around 50% overall, while GWs product has doubled.

Ovion wrote:They recently (last march I think..) hiked the price around 25%, then shortly after that when UK VAT rose, they increased it to cover the tax rather than eat it like pretty much other company even though they'd just upped the cost.

Then, with the release of finecast there was another price hike, the supposedly cheaper medium of finecast replacing the supposedly more expensive medium of metal seeing those models becoming roughly another 30%-50% more expensive.

In 3rd edition your standard troop (i.e. Space Marines, Dark Eldar Warriors etc) was about £12 for a full squad, not the £15-18 for half a unit.

Furthermore certain boxes such as the old DE warriors before the update, Necron Warriors and whatnot that haven't changed in the last decade are brought up to match.

The starter pack was £40-50, came with 2 armies, the full rulebook (the hardback one), templates, dice and a basic paint set.

Not sure which Starter pack you're talking about. If you're talking about the boxed 40k/WFB game boxes, they have never come with hardcover rulebooks or paints.

I stand corrected, I must have been bought the starter paints at the same time, however it did come with 32 Dark Eldar Warriors, 20 Space Marines and a Land Speeder as well as Gothic Ruins and Jungle scenery sprues, clear plastic templates and the full Rule Book.

When I said hardback, I meant same as thehardback : the full-blown book with all the fluff in.

Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

When I started:
You could buy a box of 30 space marines with flamers and heavy weapons in the box for $30.

Now, that same $30 will get you 5 space marines. with no special or heavy weapons. Or you can pay half again as much and get 10 men, with special weapons and a missile launcher.

I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation. I seem to remember Imperial Guards being 20 for £15 including a heavy weapon squad around 3/4 years ago (I think it included a HWS anyway)

It's a new kit for Genestealers now, but I believe the old miniature (body with arms which inserted into the sides) as used in Space Hulk were the oldest miniatures used by GW. Think they still look pretty cool though

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

privateer4hire wrote:Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

The average game size is still around 1500-2000 from what I've been playing, but general points values have decreased, for example - most necron armies that were 1500-2000 now weigh in at 700-800pts, and if you look in the eldar codex, everything is VERY pricey points wise, and will drop considerably with the next codex.

Steelmage99 wrote:

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

I didnt say that the general price hike was because of finecast, and it's probably not why most think that either. I think the thing that most people are complaining about (becausee I know it's what I am) that when taking the metal model (supposedly more expensive) and replacing that exact model with a (supposedly cheaper) resin version, that model costs £5 more.

Even with everything elses price rise, you then get... Archons / Haems - £8 to £10.50, Avatar of Khaine, The Deciever, The Night Bringer - £15-18 up to £22-23.
This is a specific price increase to Finecast models, not a happens to coincide when they're were hiking it across the board anyway.

Ovion wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:Another point to consider is the points value of games. When I was playing 40k around 2001, standard games were around 1500 pts. Those values have gone up from what I've seen (I think 1750 was a standard army a couple of years back) AND many model/unit fielding points have gone down. The result is often larger points totals for games with units that cost fewer points to field so you need more models overall. That's often muddied in the water when folks say I used to buy 10 tac marines for $25/box and compare it with the $33/box (or so) they cost now.

The average game size is still around 1500-2000 from what I've been playing, but general points values have decreased, for example - most necron armies that were 1500-2000 now weigh in at 700-800pts, and if you look in the eldar codex, everything is VERY pricey points wise, and will drop considerably with the next codex.

Steelmage99 wrote:

SuperCow wrote:I'm just confused that finecast is supposed to be cheaper for GW to make but then more expensive for us to buy :(

This is the third time this general message have been presented in this thread.


While I am no GW apologist AT ALL, it is unfair to hint at that the release of Finecast was the cause of a price hike.
There was an planned annual price increase that GW was stupid enough to let coincide with the release of Finecast making a lot of people think that the models (made from a cheaper material) was sold at a higher price due to the very change mof material.

It really wasn't. It was simply GWs usual inability to market their product well, and their general disregard of their customers intelligence.

I didnt say that the general price hike was because of finecast, and it's probably not why most think that either. I think the thing that most people are complaining about (becausee I know it's what I am) that when taking the metal model (supposedly more expensive) and replacing that exact model with a (supposedly cheaper) resin version, that model costs £5 more.

So you are saying that the price hike was not due to Finecast, but it actually was?!?

My point was that the planned increase in price would have happened whether or not Finecast had been released.

Even with everything elses price rise, you then get... Archons / Haems - £8 to £10.50, Avatar of Khaine, The Deciever, The Night Bringer - £15-18 up to £22-23.
This is a specific price increase to Finecast models, not a happens to coincide when they're were hiking it across the board anyway.

If I am understanding you point here, you are saying that the models mentioned got a proportionally higher price hike than the general price hike warranted. And that that "increased" price hike was solely due to "We can squeeze a bit more profit from the suckers" on GWs behalf?

Note that I don't disagree with the statement that GW was very likely thinking just that given their past history.

I am only complaining about the general "GW simply raised prices on models of a cheaper material because they are greedy" when there is more to it than that.

I'm saying there was a general price rise.

Then, entirely seperately, each time a Metal is replaced with Finecast, it costs significantly more. This isn't a single thing, it's been with EVERY metal to FC replacement, even in the last month or so when the C'tan shifted over.

GW generally seems to want to avoid eating profit loss of any kind, any increase in their cost, be it tax rising, inflation, new material and they seem to pass it on to the customer which ultimately ends up pricing their userbase out of the market.

I agree with you that GW seems to use every excuse to raise their prices.

This does mean that every model that gets converted to Finecast suffers a raise in price, even on top of the general increase it, and every other model/box, suffered during the annual increase earlier in the year.

That is certainly annoying, but not the thing I am complaining about, as I am sure you see.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I get that there was a planned price hike but it seems like poor form to have it general knowledge that a product is going to cost less to produce but still cost more for the consumer to buy. Makes GW appear greedy. I fear that this sort of behavior will continue to push new potential players away..when a 150 point figure costs as much as a new video game...most people are going to pick the video game. /rant over.

SuperCow wrote:I get that there was a planned price hike but it seems like poor form to have it general knowledge that a product is going to cost less to produce but still cost more for the consumer to buy. Makes GW appear greedy. I fear that this sort of behavior will continue to push new potential players away..when a 150 point figure costs as much as a new video game...most people are going to pick the video game. /rant over.

LOL!!!

You obviously do not know GW as well as some of us do.


They pull the excuse out any chance they get, give a halfwit apology, and then stick it to the player ecvcen harder, all the while ignoring the fact that your seeing people leave the game each time they pull it.

It's as predictable now as it ever has been.

Worglock wrote:Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

Point of note: You're going to repeat yourself on Dakka more than I will in 2012. Guaranteed.

Worglock wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Finecost was a good excuse for a price increase, just like white metal before it.

The best excuse for a price increase is noticing that people still paid the increased prices after the last price increase, and the one before that, and the one before that.

Point of note: You're going to buy more Games Workshop stuff in 2012 than I am. Guaranteed.

I'll take that wager...what should be deal be? Whomever buys more GamesWorkshop PLC merchandise (including FW and BL, ebay purchaces and secondhand models) shall be flogged at dawn,leave dakka forever or how about has to admit that GW isn't perfect and that Finecast is not 'Fine'? Hell I'll even spot you a hundred american dollars....

I also call bull on the long term players putting up with the price rises. According to GW most people don't play any GW system for more then 18 months. They soon bore of it and GW's mission statment is to wallet rape those people for every dime in the mean time. I know thats what it was like when I was there. Ignore the long timers get those kids hooked on intro games, sell starter box to parent. String the kid along until he gets fed up with GW then fine another little timmy to hook into the GW plactic crack 'Hobby'.

Don't worry locky, I like ya, this place wouldn't be half as interesting without yourself and Kan around. =o] Merry Ho Ho Dakka.

adameast wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

adameast wrote:Genestealers which are practically the same design as 15 years ago were once 12 for £5.

That's some big inflation.

'Practically the same design'? It's an updated kit. It's going to look similar.

Not defending the inflation here, but that statement is just stupid.

Stupid is a bit harsh don't you think?

Its basically the same as plug and play space marines these days (which are of a good quality in all fairness).

If I was a 'nid player and I was offered the option of 12 Genestealers for £5 in that vein, I'd bite their hand off.

So, yes, it is inflation. Its the same model, same base design (old one - http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmIPGJDGHhYAMNy8x790NbYuV1T2r0O1pLb1T_c3Iwg02z7uYThKYaytwW new one - http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/e/ec/Tyranid_Genestealers.jpg).

Stupid would be "I used to get an old Rhino for £10 and the new ones are £20.50 now". They're massively different quality of model.

Would you pay £31.14 for 8 genestealers? £35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts! How about a Land Raider for £71.35. The Space Marine Battleforce is £116.76. It is £107.03 for AOBR. £227.04 for the Space Marine Battleforce. £35.68 for a codex. £24 for an average Captain/Chapter Master. £46.70 for Space Marine Techmarine with Servitors. £48 for a Dreadnought. £48 for a Terminator Squad. Tactical Squad squad for £40.22. £53.84 for a Predator. £44.76 for a bike squad. £46.70 for Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squad. These are Australian prices, this is not inflation, if you had to pay this much in Australia you would bite a Red Shirt's head off. I would like the price you are paying.

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

A few prices I remember:

Kroot Hounds 2005 price £4 2011 price £8.70 (same Blister as 2005)

Space Marine Tactical Squad 2005 price £18 2011 price £23 (same box)

Assault Squad 2005 price £15 2011 price £20.50 (again, same box)

The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

Castiel wrote:
The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

The justification is, as ever, that some people continue to pay the prices...

filbert wrote:

Castiel wrote:
The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

The justification is, as ever, that some people continue to pay the prices...

I suppose so!

Castiel wrote:A few prices I remember:

Kroot Hounds 2005 price £4 2011 price £8.70 (same Blister as 2005)

Space Marine Tactical Squad 2005 price £18 2011 price £23 (same box)

Assault Squad 2005 price £15 2011 price £20.50 (again, same box)

The prices have consistently been raised well above the rate of inflation by GW over the years. I don't know how they can justify adding a fiver onto their prices over 6 years!

It is because they are losing profits so they increase the prices so they make up for the loses.

While I don't condone GW prices, I think it's important that people actually use facts in these discussions:

Price rises are inacted every single June. At no other time in the year is there a price rise (such as March as stated earlier). (Tax increase is an obvious exception- the prices rose the same as they lowered when the VAT was lowered the year before).
The entire range does not have a price increase in June- only some lines. Normally the same line won't receive a price increase 2 years in a row and often has 4 years between rises.
Of course, a price rise in conjunction with a model count lowering (IG, Orcs..) gives a greater increase in price and will happen outside of the yearly price rise.

rockerbikie wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

Well I live about 20 miles away from the Games Workshop factory. Obviously it costs more to ship them around the world than to drive up the motorway.
And it's not like we're not being shafted.

Joey wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:£35.68 for a Rhino, what a deal! Just 25 pounds more than the Brittish counterparts!

Rhino are £20 here - you're paying £15 more and your average income is approximately double ours.

Failing to see the problem....

The problem is, GW should not be charging different ammounts per location. They are treating us like Colonial Days. Canada, Brazil, New Zealand, South Africa, Japan etc. is paying far more than we should. I doubt my income is doubled yours, I get pay £245.20 per fornight only. Also, your GDP argument is invalid, Australia is rank 10 in the ranking of GDP is the world, Canada is ranked 13, New Zealand is ranked 33 yet they have to pay more than the UK which is ranked 21, Japan is ranked 24 yet they are paying more. Brazil should be getting it cheap using your logic but they are ranked 76. It has nothing to do with GDP and it has to do with GW taking advatange of Australia and other non-US, UK or European Nations.

Well I live about 20 miles away from the Games Workshop factory. Obviously it costs more to ship them around the world than to drive up the motorway.
And it's not like we're not being shafted.

It costs like £5 to be shipped, not £20. They ship it in Huge Bulks so I doubt it will costs that much more. It is just an excuse to charge more to non-European and non-US people.

The thing to remember with aus/nz is most imports cost a lot more than their country of origin.

I lived in New Zealand for 4 years so I know that first hand.

I mean, tech and games are ridiculously priced (NZ$100-120 (£60-80) for a new release game ffs). It's because they're shipping a relatively small amount of product a very long way, for it to get there in under 3-6 months it needs to be flown, and then on top of that theres import fees and then the tax top it off with markup so retailers can stay in business and the end result is a lot of businesses and the end consumer is shafted.

I mean, it was often actually cheaper for my shop owner friend to buy yugioh, mtg and warhammer product individually from a US retailer than through trade routes.

You need to buy such bulk over there to get even close to reasonable prices, combine that with all the big stores (pac'n'save, k mart, the warehouse, warehouse stationary, new world, etc) are all owned by the same 2-3 trading groups so there's bugger all in the way of competitive pricing going on making it even worse.