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Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Shinglepants wrote:I want telyporta's for my Orks! So I could like Deepstrike a Deff Dread.

So it's AV12 can get shot to pieces by all the S8+ floating around before it can get into CC?

Yeah, why would someone want to deepstrike their deff dread where it has to sit around for a turn and get shot? It'd be so much safer riding in a stormraven! I mean, it's not like it can't get into combat and is sitting around getting shot at for a few turns anyway because it doesn't have a bloody storm raven to ride around in to keep it safe.

/sarcasm. We don't all have fancy toys to keep our dreads safe. Deepstriking would let deffdreads see some play, and give people a reason to actually give them guns instead of a bunch of extra arms, not that it matters much after the FAQ on that. If my opponant wants to kill my deff dread, then he'll do it on turn one while it's sitting in my deployment doing nothing. It's not like i speed that process along by deepstriking it. Besides, a dread just footing it along isn't really threatening anything.

/rant.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Shinglepants wrote:I want telyporta's for my Orks! So I could like Deepstrike a Deff Dread.

So it's AV12 can get shot to pieces by all the S8+ floating around before it can get into CC?

Yes! Better than running it for 2-3 turns. I didnt mean specifically Dreads though. Maybe some MANZ??

Id have the Malcador tank series be useable in normal non-apoc battles.
drop the super heavy title and its structure points. it only has 13 front, 12 side and 11 rear sure its got alot of guns (reletive to a LEman Russ) but a LEman Russ can take down a Malcador with its superiour armor... same with all its varients including the Minotaur. (its only 2 earth shakers as opposed to 1)

same with the laser Destroyer. its only a single shot and it has no sponson weapons (that im aware of) so its massive offensive firepower would be offset by its near nil defensive abilitys, i.e it can't ward off close range enemys due to the lack of heavy bolter/flamer sponsons.

Shinglepants wrote:Yes! Better than running it for 2-3 turns. I didnt mean specifically Dreads though. Maybe some MANZ??

The big thing is that most of the units that can Deep Strike via Drop Pod or Special Rule, they all can shoot really well after they land. Orks do not have any shooting ability that will survive to through the next turn. There is so much S8 and AP2 out there that even MegaNobz will be hard pressed to survive outside of CC, especially when they become the closest unit to the enemy.


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loota boy wrote:Deepstriking would let deffdreads see some play, and give people a reason to actually give them guns

How much shooting damage can a Deff Dread do? Will it be worth the points of the whole Walker to get one round of shooting off before it is a smoking hulk? Not with Ork weapons and BS2.

Paired Skorchas can make a mess against anything non-power armoured

A common build is 2 DCCW, 2 Skorchas.

I've taken out a nob biker unit worth 800 + points with a pair of skorchas before, when the other guy forgot where my dread was lurking.

For Grey Knights I would add the following, mainly for fluff reasons.

- Drop Pods
Baffling as to why they don't have these.

- Librarian Dreadnoughts
Even more baffling why they don't have these.

- A Named Librarian Character
Just about every SM chapter has one of these, but the most psychic-able chapter does not.

- Holocaust on Terminator units
As used in the Ben Counter's Grey Knight book. People might actually start using Terminators!

Ghenghis Jon wrote:The big thing is that most of the units that can Deep Strike via Drop Pod or Special Rule, they all can shoot really well after they land. Orks do not have any shooting ability that will survive to through the next turn. There is so much S8 and AP2 out there that even MegaNobz will be hard pressed to survive outside of CC, especially when they become the closest unit to the enemy.

Well then, why play a Dread at all? Surely surviving one round of shooting is better than surviving the usual two or three rounds, no?

Shinglepants wrote:Well then, why play a Dread at all?

I don't.

Ghenghis Jon wrote:

Shinglepants wrote:Well then, why play a Dread at all?

I don't.

Well, i'll respect your choice in list building, and what units you want to take. The rest of us might feel like using a dread sometime, especially if we converted a really cool one. Don't you see that giving a unit a buff to make it passably useable is far better than just letting it wallow in obscurity? All i'm saying is that letting dreads deepstike cannot possibly make dreads worse. It can only make them better.

-Chaos cultist units as in DOW 2, with many upgrades.
-Much better spawn with a sergent equivilent to boost the spawn and remove mindless. Also, different mutation options (POSSIBLY like possessed).

I think BS 5 and up should be able to pick their individual target (eg. when shooting at squads, you can pick the sarge) and the same should go for anything with a sniper rifle. fair?

Thunderwolf cavalry in an IG army. A bit too epic and Norse for Guard? Perhaps.

Failing that, demo charges for Thunderwolves What I can't kill with my claws I will vaporize with a hand-held S8 AP2 Large Blast

loota boy wrote:All i'm saying is that letting dreads deepstike cannot possibly make dreads worse. It can only make them better.

I disagree. The big thing is shooting and survivability. The best ranged attacks a Dread has is dual Scorchas. That 7" range requires a good bit more luck on the scatter dice than Space Marines with their 24" range. And then, it is going to be shot by a few high strength low AP shots that would otherwise be wasted on your Boyz.. Somebody else threw out Drop Pod Flash Gitz, and they could be a much more effective with 24" range Snazzgunz, more wounds/models. Maybe if you could drop a squadron of Killa Kanz, but i have no idea what the rules would even be for that kind of craziness.


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Otis The Barbarian wrote:I think BS 5 and up should be able to pick their individual target (eg. when shooting at squads, you can pick the sarge) and the same should go for anything with a sniper rifle. fair?

No. The ability to target individual models outside of CC is the worst detail this game has ever included.

Grey knight drop pods and GUIs so Lu roam dreadnaughts

loota boy wrote:Well, i'll respect your choice in list building, and what units you want to take. The rest of us might feel like using a dread sometime, especially if we converted a really cool one. Don't you see that giving a unit a buff to make it passably useable is far better than just letting it wallow in obscurity? All i'm saying is that letting dreads deepstike cannot possibly make dreads worse. It can only make them better.

Agreed.

Talking of poor Orky BS. I think a Grot Gunner upgrade should be available on like Battlewagons and Trukks. Obviously to increase the BS. That would be cool.

assault, open-toped rhinos for SW

Shinglepants wrote:

Talking of poor Orky BS. I think a Grot Gunner upgrade should be available on like Battlewagons and Trukks. Obviously to increase the BS. That would be cool.

What? Let them weedy GROTZ man the big gunz? That ain't the Orky way!

Make the upgrade 'More Dakka' instead; it makes all weapons twin-linked. Same effect, better conversions!

Dey Duz Annywayz

The big shoota turrets are a bit of a squeeze for an ork, and the turrets likewise, if there is ammo in there too.

BeRzErKeR wrote:What? Let them weedy GROTZ man the big gunz? That ain't the Orky way!

Make the upgrade 'More Dakka' instead; it makes all weapons twin-linked. Same effect, better conversions!

Yes it is. They do man the big gunz! Twin linked Rokkits on Deff Dreads would make them worth taking. Deffkoptas and Buggies can get them. Why not dreads?