Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Did you miss the many comments I've made about being pro-choice, and having paid for several abortions?

I have no problem with someone being pro-choice.

But choosing to abort is another matter entirely.

If you ever have a kid: look at him or her and tell yourself that you could have had several just like him/her if his/her mother hadn't had an abortion.

dogma wrote:If no one knows how to hate like leftists, one assumes that the argument being made is qualitative, and that the point is that leftists hate more than non-leftisits; which generally means conservatives, being people on the right by convention.

I'm not sure how this is consistent with your previous comment. Leftists are good at hating. Conservatives less so.

That doesn't mean no conservative has ever said a hateful thing, just that leftists are better at it.

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Did you miss the many comments I've made about being pro-choice, and having paid for several abortions?

I have no problem with someone being pro-choice.

But choosing to abort is another matter entirely.

If you ever have a kid: look at him or her and tell yourself that you could have had several just like him/her if his/her mother hadn't had an abortion.

dogma wrote:If no one knows how to hate like leftists, one assumes that the argument being made is qualitative, and that the point is that leftists hate more than non-leftisits; which generally means conservatives, being people on the right by convention.

I'm not sure how this is consistent with your previous comment. Leftists are good at hating. Conservatives less so.

That doesn't mean no conservative has ever said a hateful thing, just that leftists are better at it.

That's all prospective.

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Did you miss the many comments I've made about being pro-choice, and having paid for several abortions?

I have no problem with someone being pro-choice.

But choosing to abort is another matter entirely.

So it's okay for them to have the choice but not okay for them to choose the option you don't like?
What's the distinction you're trying to make here?

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:

biccat wrote:
Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Did you miss the many comments I've made about being pro-choice, and having paid for several abortions?

I have no problem with someone being pro-choice.

But choosing to abort is another matter entirely.

So it's okay for them to have the choice but not okay for them to choose the option you don't like?
What's the distinction you're trying to make here?

I'd proffer this is the argument:
1. The government should not be involved.
2. People who do it are low down dirty scum and baby killers.

Frazzled's view: wake me when someone brings around the chocolate cake.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:So it's okay for them to have the choice but not okay for them to choose the option you don't like?
What's the distinction you're trying to make here?

"Abortion should not only be safe and legal, it should be rare."

But yes, that's generally what freedom is: you have the right to do X, even if it's a bad thing. I think hate speech is a bad thing. I don't think it should be outlawed.

Abortion is a special case because it requires a balance between the liberty interest of the mother and the future life interest of the child.

biccat wrote:
If you ever have a kid: look at him or her and tell yourself that you could have had several just like him/her if his/her mother hadn't had an abortion.

I've funded this process 4 times (only 1 was mine), and walked friends through it 7 times; including the paid instances. I'm not at all uncomfortable with the prospect.

biccat wrote:
I'm not sure how this is consistent with your previous comment. Leftists are good at hating. Conservatives less so.

That doesn't mean no conservative has ever said a hateful thing, just that leftists are better at it.

Its consistent in the sense that my argument is based on a talent for hate knowing no political boundary.

Those abortion clinic protesters were pretty damn hateful, and I've seen some (liberal) immigration protesters that were just as hateful.

biccat wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:So it's okay for them to have the choice but not okay for them to choose the option you don't like?
What's the distinction you're trying to make here?

But yes, that's generally what freedom is: you have the right to do X, even if it's a bad thing. I think hate speech is a bad thing. I don't think it should be outlawed.

Abortion is a special case because it requires a balance between the liberty interest of the mother and the future life interest of the child.

I'm going to guess the outburst at Dogma was a case of strong personal feelings, then?
That at least I can understand, given how thorny an issue things like abortion have proven to be.

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:Is calling someone a murderer any better than calling someone else a rapist?

Yes. Significantly better.

Will you explain your standards?

biccat wrote:That doesn't mean no conservative has ever said a hateful thing, just that leftists are better at it.

Knowing your strict code of never making political assertions without proof, and your tendency to flee when you do, I'd appreciate some empirical evidence to back that up.

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:So, those signs that read "Murderer" and "Devil-Spawn" I walked my ex past were indicative of conservative love?

Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Your willing to make that judgement with absolutely zero knowledge of the circumstances?

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:Is calling someone a murderer any better than calling someone else a rapist?

Yes. Significantly better.

wut

Manchu wrote:

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:Is calling someone a murderer any better than calling someone else a rapist?

Yes. Significantly better.

Will you explain your standards?

Machu, don't you know? Sex = bad. Violence = good.

RustyKnight wrote:

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:So, those signs that read "Murderer" and "Devil-Spawn" I walked my ex past were indicative of conservative love?

Wow. Believe it or not, I actually had a decent amount of respect for you before this comment.

Your willing to make that judgement with absolutely zero knowledge of the circumstances?

biccat wrote:

Manchu wrote:Is calling someone a murderer any better than calling someone else a rapist?

Yes. Significantly better.

wut

Well if he believes that life begins at conception, yea he probably does.

Who could have foreseen that a thread on abortion could create such disagreement.

Ahtman wrote:Who could have foreseen that a thread on abortion could create such disagreement.

This guy.

Well, the thread isn't really about abortion. The thread is about whether if you want an abortion and I say, okay, but I have to stick this thing in your vagina, and you say, yeah, I really want the abortion so go ahead, is that rape?

Frazzled wrote:

Well if he believes that life begins at conception, yea he probably does.

The abortion could've been necessary to save the mother's life.

dogma wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stormrider wrote:
Don't like the law? Then move. There's plenty of states in the US who have no restrictions whatsoever. That's the beauty of the system. Freedom of movement.

"Love it or Leave it." is an awful argument for a number of reasons.

How? It's pretty simple.

Manchu wrote:Well, the thread isn't really about abortion. The thread is about whether if you want an abortion and I say, okay, but I have to stick this thing in your vagina, and you say, yeah, I really want the abortion so go ahead, is that rape?

Not really...
Rape has to be non-consensual...
If you say yes then it is consensual...

I'm not sure biccat had zero knowledge of the circumstances there. IIRC, dogma has posted about this before.

RustyKnight wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Well if he believes that life begins at conception, yea he probably does.

The abortion could've been necessary to save the mother's life.

That is at least one or two percent more likely than winning the big Power Ball, but agreed there is that chance. Of course under the law killing someone to save yourself is a very iffy proposition...

Unless its Shane from Walking Dead of course. Then again I never understood why the Shane hate, when he's the only one to make the right decisions so far in the show.

Manchu wrote:Well, the thread isn't really about abortion. The thread is about whether if you want an abortion and I say, okay, but I have to stick this thing in your vagina, and you say, yeah, I really want the abortion so go ahead, is that rape?

So it isn't about abortion, it is just about abortion. Makes perfect sense.

Manchu wrote:I'm not sure biccat had zero knowledge of the circumstances there. IIRC, dogma has posted about this before.

T ing M ing I!!!!!

Stormrider wrote:
How? It's pretty simple.

It is simple, and basically necessitates the invalidity of any political change, and therefore democracy.

Then there's the capacity objection, by which one might want to live under different conditions, but lack the ability to simply move without significant hardship. Basically, X is bad, but Y is worse.

purplefood wrote:Not really...
Rape has to be non-consensual...
If you say yes then it is consensual...

Yeah, I know. The point I am glossing is that the decision to be penetrated here is only related by law to the decision to have an abortion. It is a bit uncomfortable. I mean, what if a woman went to get a loan at the bank and the banker said, sure but only if I get to stick this thing in your vagina?

Manchu wrote:

purplefood wrote:Not really...
Rape has to be non-consensual...
If you say yes then it is consensual...

Yeah, I know. The point I am glossing is that the decision to be penetrated here is only related by law to the decision to have an abortion. It is a bit uncomfortable. I mean, what if a woman went to get a loan at the bank and the banker said, sure but only if I get to stick this thing in your vagina?

As a banker....er never mind.

Ahtman wrote:So it isn't about abortion, it is just about abortion. Makes perfect sense.

I almost want to say it's about extortion rather than abortion.

Manchu wrote:I mean, what if a woman went to get a loan at the bank and the banker said, sure but only if I get to stick this thing in your vagina?

I see you are familiar with Capitol One.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:

Ahtman wrote:So it isn't about abortion, it is just about abortion. Makes perfect sense.

I almost want to say it's about extortion rather than abortion.

Can't it be both?

Ahtman wrote:Can't it be both?

Well, if a woman can only get a loan if she lets the banker do stuff to her vagina ... I mean, we're not really talking about loans when we consider what's wrong with this scenario.

Manchu wrote:

Ahtman wrote:Can't it be both?

Well, if a woman can only get a loan if she lets the banker do stuff to her vagina ... I mean, we're not really talking about loans when we consider what's wrong with this scenario.

We like to call that 'servicing the account.'

Frazzled wrote:T ing M ing I!!!!!

I can't figure out what this means.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:We like to call that 'servicing the account.'

You don't want to know what we really mean by "retainer."