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Johnny-Crass wrote:10 wounds is 3 cannon shots. IE two turns.

Good thing every army has cannons...

Yeah, like Demons, Lizardmen, Beastmen, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves...they all have cannons, right?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, like Demons, Lizardmen, Beastmen, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves...they all have cannons, right?

Besides two of those armies they can all take amber spear


And the comment want it could get crumped by cannons, I did not say cannons where everywhere. It is the argument against every other no save monster and no one brings up that only three armies bring black powder to the party.

Johnny-Crass wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, like Demons, Lizardmen, Beastmen, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves...they all have cannons, right?

Besides two of those armies they can all take amber spear


And the comment want it could get crumped by cannons, I did not say cannons where everywhere. It is the argument against every other no save monster and no one brings up that only three armies bring black powder to the party.

Amber spear is only S6 D3 wounds, at 24" range.
It can be S10 D6 wounds, but only if you use enough power dice, as opposed to the cannon which is S10 all the time.

And I think you mean 3 armies. TK, VC and DE can't get lore of beasts. LM can get it...but Lore of Light is more useful for Lizardmen I think.

The Stank is fine. It can survive.

VC can use lore of beasts for 20 points

Johnny-Crass wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, like Demons, Lizardmen, Beastmen, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, High Elves...they all have cannons, right?

Besides two of those armies they can all take amber spear

Good thing you're 100% sure to get that, and that you don't need other lores than beasts to be competetive. Ohwait.

Johnny-Crass wrote:VC can use lore of beasts for 20 points

Wait wut? How?

Forbidden Lore

Johnny-Crass wrote:Forbidden Lore

Oh, is that what it does now? Huh. That's a change from the old spell spam.

Commenting on a book you do not know about? You have become what you hate CS!

Mwuahahahah

Johnny-Crass wrote:Commenting on a book you do not know about? You have become what you hate CS!

Mwuahahahah

Noooooo!
Meh, I always have problems keeping up with new editions. Just used to Vampire Forbidden lore shenanigans I guess.

Oh well.
Hold on, does the FL allow the wizard to specify what spell he's taking? Or is it random?
Cause if its random, he has a 1/6 chance of getting the amber spear. Those are not good odds.

It just gives him knowledge of the lore like any other wizard

So...its not a guaranteed Amber Spear? Not a very reliable way of killing a steam tank then, now is it?

However, I had a look at the rules for hex wraiths. Those I think may make a stank nervous.
Is the steam cannon magical?

Cheap spirit host is the bane of stanks... and demigriphs... and anythign without ranks

What I'm concerned about is everyone's saying we have all the characters to put in a unit for buffs.
But if you add Capt, WP, WH and Full command..... your muso will be bumped to the 2nd rank unless you run horde. What happens to anvil units when all the buffs are in the front rank and not very good in combat? I've heard people saying "they'll be attacking rank and file to get combat resolution".... but even if that is how your opponent thinks - he can't reach any rank and file because your entire front rank is heros and champions!

Does anyone else see this as an issue or am I missing something?

karlosovic wrote:What I'm concerned about is everyone's saying we have all the characters to put in a unit for buffs.
But if you add Capt, WP, WH and Full command..... your muso will be bumped to the 2nd rank unless you run horde. What happens to anvil units when all the buffs are in the front rank and not very good in combat? I've heard people saying "they'll be attacking rank and file to get combat resolution".... but even if that is how your opponent thinks - he can't reach any rank and file because your entire front rank is heros and champions!

Does anyone else see this as an issue or am I missing something?

Just do not make way.... Problem solved

Demigryphs < Mournfangs I think in most situations. Yes, you can tailor fights where Demis are better but out of the 3982238 fights that exist, I wager the majority will go to MF pretty concisively. But that's okay, they are both good units.

Also, for the record, we're in 8th edition now. I'd like to see mathhammer from now on go against 8th armies, not something that may or may not be here in X months.

And if I had a penny for every army that didn't have access to cannons and didn't have amber spear, I'd have a hell of a lot more money than my evil twin who took the opposite bet.

Demigryphs and Mournfangs have different roles IMO.

The chickens are for opening high armor elites such as Chaos Warriors. Mournfangs are cheap weak infantry blenders.

Mournfangs also cost 10 points more.


The Chickens can take on more enemies because of 1+ armor. Str5 doesn't bother them as much as it bothers Mournfangs.

While big huge blocks of core are nice, if core isn't your strength, spend as little there as you can and move along. (And it definately is not this books strength.) I see myself at 2k points probably taking around 600-700 points of characters because in this edition of Empire, Heroes are your best units. It's looking like 2/3 WP's, a naked Engineer, and a lvl 1 LoShadow scroll caddy in addition to my lvl 4 LoMetal. (LoMetal ONLY because I think it's the neatest Lore and empire is my first army to be able to use it.) Also, I think that the Helstrom Rockets are worthy of consideration. My only issue is that I think the only dice that can cause a misfire should be the first missile you roll.. or give it a roll similar to that of the gatling gun and vary the severity of the missile mishaps based on the number of missiles fired.

Also, some quick hits..

- Captains and Generals of the Empire... They did go up in points but their plate armor dropped by about 4 points.. and if they arent in magical, everyone takes plate!

- Detachments ... Yeah you can still charge them and they can no longer autoflank. This probably means that the best use for them is a small unit of xbows or handgunners to add a few free wounds to the enemy. Not sure if they count for combat rez, but if they do..outstanding!

- Demigryphs ... I plan on using 6 to 8 depending on points values. I think they're wonderful at not only scare tactics but at making things dead. I think I would use them against any other big beastie and not just infantry. I wouldnt be scared of Hellpits, Stanks, Mournfang, Stegadons, or anything else that isnt a T8 Sphinx. That's probably the only enemy I would stay away from. My favorite MC is still the TK Snake Surfers, but these are a close second followed by Mournfang.



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Come to think of it, it's going to feel a lot like the old TK's.

Minimum core.
Maximum characters.
Lots of points in special / rare choices.
Irregular magic in bound spells everywhere.

There's going to be strategy in trying to bait out your opponents dispel dice with prayers and low cost spells. Low power dice will hurt by reducing your options, but will also greatly reduce the mount of spells your opponent can stop.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, I think GW derped a bit when they put a T3 rider on a T4 mount. :/

Pffft, they did that with Dark Elves first. T3 Elf on a T4 Cold One.

The most effective way to take out the Steam Tank without cannons (for armies which have access to it) is Lore of Metal. The signature spell does D6 wounds, wounding on a 2+ with no armour saves allowed. Or you can boost it to 2D6 wounds, which will average 7 wounds from one spell.

As there is probably going to be a few other units with 1+ armour saves in an Empire army (Demigryphs etc.) Lore of Metal is going to be one of the most useful lores for doing some serious hurt.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Yeah, I think GW derped a bit when they put a T3 rider on a T4 mount. :/

Pffft, they did that with Dark Elves first. T3 Elf on a T4 Cold One.

Ok, good point.
In fact, I think they derped even harder there, since cold ones don't have 3 wounds each.
If they did, then CoC would immediately gain several awesome points.