Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So judging by the white dwarf theres a few things I would like to get peeps opinions on:

1) The new Karl Franz rules
2) The new "HOLD ZE LINE!!!!" rule
3) The huntsmaster
4) the new models

Personally I love the new models, and the new Karl Franz rules makes me really consider taking him if he drops below 500 points, especially the 24" LD10 bubble :O

The new hold the line rule sounds ace, I will be definately throwing a couple of naked captains in my units just for that rule alone!

The huntsmaster could quite possibly be one of the best characters out there if he has what I think will be Heroic killing blow. Wether or not he is worth taking in a unit of huntsmen or not is another question as this may add up to expensiveoclock.

Any thoughts?

The new models are nice.

Don't really know enough about the rules - though I notice there is the usual doom and gloom merchants playing their trade on the various speculations. It looks as if there will be a number of options, like with the other 8th ed books, which can only be a good thing.

Hold the line is a new rule which empire captains and generals have. The unit with them in take break tests on 3d6 and pick the two lowest!

Deathbysoup wrote:Hold the line is a new rule which empire captains and generals have. The unit with them in take break tests on 3d6 and pick the two lowest!

I saw that in White Dwarf. The Withchunter looks quite good too.

But it's a bit difficult to know how well the rules will work until the book comes out, and then see how it is playing out 6 months down the road.

I am liking the nerf to Mortars. Str2 large blast

Demigryphs look like a killer unit. Str5 armor piercing attacks with a 1+ armor save(and Str4 from the rider)

theyve nerfed mortars to strength 2? thats madness. There goes my battle plan!! Might have to invest in a rocket battery or two now!

Yeah Demigryphs look ace, you can make em str 5 with cav halberd too!

Flaggies are sepcial choices now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And waralter is Stubborn

Empire has left me cold up till now. Before it looked too much like a historical games. Now, I am really liking the emphasis on the fantastic, although the huge Laser-thingy is a bit OTT.

Makes me wonder what they might do with Bretonnians, another army that are just too "real life" for my liking...

Demigryphs look nice mounts for the mounts and help distinguish them from the Bretonian knights more. I like the 3 new mounts for the wizards and it makes me wonder if the other 5 lores will eventually get something cool to ride on too (haven't seen the book so don't know if they already have).

With Karl Franz unless there is a huge difference in points I'm struggling to see why you'd ever take the runefang over the hammer since going off the WD rules the hammer does everything the sword does and then a bit more.

What does the wit hunter shape up like?

coinbiter wrote:With Karl Franz unless there is a huge difference in points I'm struggling to see why you'd ever take the runefang over the hammer since going off the WD rules the hammer does everything the sword does and then a bit more.

As it's always been-previous hammer auto wounded with no armor saves, same as a Runefang, BUT each wound multiplied to D3. I'm sure it's about the same.

Also, in the other Empire thread I said I was bummed about the state troop costs going up-time to amend: with the Captain/General rules of 'Hold the Line,' upping the cost is actually appropriate. And, Empire will be the 1+ armor save spam army now-with Full-plate armor, enchanted shields, ponies, AoMI and the 1+ (might be 2+, I forgot) armor from the rulebook, we've got lots of possibilities for 1+ armor saves. People are commenting on it being Tyranid level, I think we're looking at Tomb King level-we can have Greatswords STUBBORN with 3 dice, choose the two lowest. Um...yes please? Go ahead, break that unit. I dare you. And special Flagellants, probably a unit available as core with a WP in there? I think this new book has possibilities-it just won't be 'point and click' like IG. Cruddance's fantasy work looks to be a lot better than his 40k stuff. If Empire is on equal footing to TK, then I'm a fan of Cruddance in the fantasy world. Court is still out for my views on his 40k work.

I agree, alot of stuff seems to have been nerfed, however I do believe we needed it. T10 10W 1+ armour save steam tank was a bit ridiculous. And I had a 2000pts army that could potentially get 7 dispel dice extra...

I think the focus has changed a little bit on the army, so I will probably end up having to buy a load of new models. Definately getting in on the lazor action though!

A little bummed by the nerf to the mortar since its now weaker AND more expensive. But I guess it will make me change how I play.

Oh and I am STILL keeping my greatsword horde as that thing ROCKS!

I am turning my back on my empire personally. It is too big of a change of the list I used to run. And I found the Steamtank to be balanced as it was.

Havent read much of the rules other than in the white dwarf.

The models are sick.

I want a death ray and a big bird and I play chaos so thats gotta tell ya something.

Also demigriff knights look pretty angry.

I was kind of skeptical at first but I suppose I can live with it.

Still stinks of Cruddace though. You're telling me that a weapon designed to fling shrapnel at an enemy (Mortar) has less strength than a rock? Whatever Cruddace is smoking, I'd like a hit or two.

Overall though I don't think the changes were so significant that the army is completely different now. I'll probably end up picking up Empire at some point.

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:What does the wit hunter shape up like?

sniper, killing blow... maybe some other stuff.

Johnny-Crass wrote:I am turning my back on my empire personally. It is too big of a change of the list I used to run.

Might agree, I'm going to see how the book turns out first.

If mortars really did get a cost increase and are now S2, that is going to seriously dent their effectiveness.

I'm also not a big fan of the change to more fantastic Empire.

So for someone who will not ever buy a white dwarf and has played empire for a long time can someone be kind and give me a lowdown on the changes?

biccat wrote:If mortars really did get a cost increase and are now S2, that is going to seriously dent their effectiveness.

Praise be! IMO the current mortars under 8th have been just about broken, not least because I run a T3 infantry army. And apparently warrior priests have lost the additional dispel dice nonsense? Really those were the only two things I wanted fixed in the new book, looks like I got my wish

Still extremely interested to see what the biggerized griffon is packing, but looks like beyond 'bloodroar' on Deathclaw (and perhaps his lesser brothers), they've mostly just got flying, terror, "loyal beast" (monster reaction modifier?), large target and decent stats:

M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 5 0 6 5 5 4 4 7

Not seeing a ton of survivability ... Wonder what the two-headed one's packing?

- Salvage

The Steamtank mods were the nail in the coffin for me. As a tournament player I will still follow the book and see how it folds out but I just got rid of half my Empire.

cowpow16 wrote:
I want a death ray and a big bird and I play chaos so thats gotta tell ya something.

It tells me that you're either a mad scientist or a super villain.


Or both.

Deathbysoup wrote:Hold the line is a new rule which empire captains and generals have. The unit with them in take break tests on 3d6 and pick the two lowest!

Ah. So now the people of the empire are part Lizardmen and have the Cold-blooded rule. Good way to make all the armies disticnt and have their own feel.

I dislike the move to create a more fantasical Empire. I sure hope the eventual Bretonnian book is not given the same treatment.

walledin wrote:I dislike the move to create a more fantasical Empire. I sure hope the eventual Bretonnian book is not given the same treatment.

Bretonnia used to have a Dragon... If my forsight is correct I see it returning on a 100x150

Johnny-Crass wrote:The Steamtank mods were the nail in the coffin for me. As a tournament player I will still follow the book and see how it folds out but I just got rid of half my Empire.

While taking your point on board, it was a bit silly to see a stank in every army, given the fluff.

Boss Salvage wrote:Praise be! IMO the current mortars under 8th have been just about broken, not least because I run a T3 infantry army. And apparently warrior priests have lost the additional dispel dice nonsense? Really those were the only two things I wanted fixed in the new book, looks like I got my wish

Mortars were the only non-magical thing Empire has to deal with large blocks of infantry. There aren't enough heavy hitters in the Empire book to deal with enemy blocks. Maybe that will change with the Demigryph knights, but I'm not too optimistic.

Expect to start seeing a lot of Shadow and Death wizards in the future.

marielle wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:The Steamtank mods were the nail in the coffin for me. As a tournament player I will still follow the book and see how it folds out but I just got rid of half my Empire.

While taking your point on board, it was a bit silly to see a stank in every army, given the fluff.

I always viewed Steamtanks like the towns harlot. She gets around alot and makes you feel great and dirty at the same time

biccat wrote:

Boss Salvage wrote:Praise be! IMO the current mortars under 8th have been just about broken, not least because I run a T3 infantry army. And apparently warrior priests have lost the additional dispel dice nonsense? Really those were the only two things I wanted fixed in the new book, looks like I got my wish

Mortars were the only non-magical thing Empire has to deal with large blocks of infantry. There aren't enough heavy hitters in the Empire book to deal with enemy blocks. Maybe that will change with the Demigryph knights, but I'm not too optimistic.

Expect to start seeing a lot of Shadow and Death wizards in the future.

I think that the supposed 3 templates per shot rockets will fill the niche mortars did.

Platuan4th wrote:I think that the supposed 3 templates per shot rockets will fill the niche mortars did.

Makes sense. Nobody really fields the HSRB in the current book, so it makes sense that it will be the new must-have piece of artillery.

I used to field two of the buggers and two helblasters with 5 engineers. That was a fun list