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Daemons. Should just be extras for CSMs.

Grey Knights. They shouldn't be a stand alone army to start with.

Though I guess I have a small problem with daemons as well because of how awkward it'll be to use the Word Bearers if they bring back their proper rules in the next codex.

Vet guard, coteaz, longfang spam, purifier spam, Vulkan. Most of my problems come from lack of fluff support or internal logic.

Vet guard hold a ridiculous amount of firepower for little reason or cost. When marines are venerating their wargear as sacred it seems odd that 3 guys that lived through a few battles would suddenly be thrown a couple holy relics and sent off, PER SQUAD. Gameplaywise, being able to take 2 of these squads in chimeras for a handful of points more than space marines with upgrades in a rhino... yeah.

Coteaz. Yeah I get he has connections and what not, and being an inquisitor means he can draw on any sort of resources he desires, but the mix of what he can take is bizarre. Again, average joe being better equipped than the greatest warriors and assassins because assassins be cool.

Longfang spam, not very fitting for sons of Russ to sit back and shoot when there is glory to be had. The mass of heavy weapon squads

Purifiers, it's doubtful these things should even be fieldable in the first place, much less able to be in larger numbers than their own fluff puts them at. And their startlingly low points cost. And their bad fluff (purest of the pure who purify).

Vulkan just because of the massive hit he does against the codex's internal balance. It's bad when a single character takes everything that is considered required/good in this edition and makes it twice as good. He just outshines every other character in that book to the point of them being... well, pointless.

Absolutionis wrote:Also, their anime mecha design is just unappealing to me.

Sorry, I find it amusing seeing that statement come from an Infinity player.

Chaos marine players who can't stand the fact Daemons are seperate army and think my army shouldn't exist because it supossedly 'belongs' in their book.

I agree with a lot of what Surtur said, with the exception of the Vet Guard and Coteaz stuff. In terms of fluff, it doesn't make a ton of sense, but for game play, it's not broken at all in my opinion. They have a great selection of weapons and can have a lot of them, but they are still just guardsmen in close combat. And lets be honest, pretty much every game ends up in close combat. Space Marines may take a beating to there, but that's the entire IG stratagem (pound em as much as possible before the inevitable melee). And in close combat, all those fancy weapons mean nothing.

As for the Coteaz thing, how is he an average Joe? Or did I misinterpret your post? Inquisitors are the complete opposite of average Joe, and Coteaz is a veteran inquisitor, making him even LESS average lol.

Everything else, I agree with. I played a guy who had 60 purifiers......even though there are only supposed to be 40 (they should put that in the errata so that you can only take up to 40 with Crowe). Believe it or not, I beat the guy! I got dumb lucky mind you but a win is a win

Vulkan is monster, plain and simple. He makes your army ridiculous against mech lists, he makes your army ridiculous against MC, and he makes your army ridiculous against horde lists. And since it's in the SM dex, your army is already good against everything else! He's one of those things that really just doesn't belong in the game at any point cost in my opinion.

And the Long Fang spam!?!? Talk about being contradictory to the fluff!

I don't really like Eldar (neither the Smooth nor the Creamy varieties) and I can't really claim to be a huge Tyranid fan, but I think that's more personal preference than anything else. I dislike elves in general, and there are a lot of parallels to the Eldar, which makes them distasteful to me. And I dislike the lack of individuality amongst the Tyranids.

SoB - Imo, there is just no redeeming quality I can think of for this army.

Honorable mention:
Orks - They need to be scarier, meaner, and not freaking fungus.
Chaos anything - I don't know what it is about the Chaos side of things that puts me off it, but they just don't do much for me.

I actually like most of the marine chapters, I just wish they'd condense the number of dexes for them.

Zweischneid wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:
No. Just no. You keep bringing up this stupid gak into conversations and even after being told you're wrong, you still keep at it, don't you?

Originally when Chaos was introduced, you couldn't do mixed forces. The only force that allowed you to do this was Black Legion in RT era because they switched from god to god so often. Otherwise, there was animosity. You could not have Slaanesh dudes in a Khorne force. Full stop. Or if you could, you were at a disadvantage. Animosity is there for army balance, not to stop WAAC gamers.

What made Chaos unique was the fact that they did not obey the laws of nature. Possessed by daemons, granted Chaos attributes. Could summon Daemons. Were veterans of the Horus Heresy. That's what made Chaos Space Marines unique.

The essential design paradigm was that you chose one specific god and you dedicated your warband to them. That was that. If anything, the WAAC gamers are the ones who abuse the system and mix in the different gods, like using Skarbrand to give your Daemonettes a re-roll to hit.

Um. There was no Black Legion of that name in Slaves of Darkness yet, though they had introduced Horus. Also, there wasn't even animosity yet in slaves of darkness. Indeed, you couldn't even choose which Daemons/Possessions/etc. you got. In RT, you just rolled (D10 still back then) on a table with 1-2 getting you Khorne, 3-4 getting you Slaneesh, 5-6 Nurgle, 7-8 Tzeentch and 9-10 Independent every time you summoned thngs or got possessions. Unless you rolled constantly the same number, it was impossible in RT to have a "mono-God" force. By pure virtue of the fact that the game used dice, you were bound to get a mixture of things(who, in RT-days, weren't even afflicted by animosity).

Thank you for proving that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Go check page 268 of Slaves to Darkness. Whaaat? Could it be? The Black Legion? Say it ain't so!
Only the Black Legion had the possibility having multiple Daemons from different gods, otherwise you were restricted to the god in your chosen army list. Otherwise, unless you took Black Legion, Daemons were subject to hatred of their opposed deity. Also, you have the World Eaters being subject to the hatred of followers of Slaanesh, and Emperor's Children subject to hatred of followers of Khorne.

Also, please direct me to the page number and book where you rolled to summon, because in Slaves to Darkness and Lost and the Damned you paid the points and then you had to roll to see if they were even available.


And to stay on topic, I find the Daemon army to not be appealing at all, since they should be back with the Chaos Space Marines. Grey Knights used to appeal to me but their fluff nowadays just weirds me out.

:edit: I see what you're talking about with the D10, that's the Daemonic Intrusions table. That was totally independent of the army lists and only happened when daemons attempted to use a psyker as a gate to realspace.

I like space marine I just dont like that they have all these separate books for different chapters.

Other tgan that tau and eldar/dark eldar dont interest me. I mean i like robot anime but tau just look stupid.

The least appealing 40k army is whatever army that a fluff-nazi is pontificating about...

The two armies I have no interest in at all are Eldar (except Dark Eldar) and Tyranids. Eldar because I find them dull. They were my first and longest-running opponent back in 2nd Edition, and I can't say much has changed with them over the years. Oh yeah, except Eldrad is dead now. Even though you can still field him.

I don't like the 'Nid asthetic. I like the idea of Nids, and some individual models look cool, but I would hate to paint an army of them.

I wouldn't play Chaos Demons, because they are not their own army. They are a part of the Chaos Marine list, and should never have been given their own book. Same deal with the Grey Knights; they should have stayed in the Ordo Malleus.

bmoleski wrote:I agree with a lot of what Surtur said, with the exception of the Vet Guard and Coteaz stuff. In terms of fluff, it doesn't make a ton of sense, but for game play, it's not broken at all in my opinion. They have a great selection of weapons and can have a lot of them, but they are still just guardsmen in close combat. And lets be honest, pretty much every game ends up in close combat. Space Marines may take a beating to there, but that's the entire IG stratagem (pound em as much as possible before the inevitable melee). And in close combat, all those fancy weapons mean nothing.

As for the Coteaz thing, how is he an average Joe? Or did I misinterpret your post? Inquisitors are the complete opposite of average Joe, and Coteaz is a veteran inquisitor, making him even LESS average lol.

Everything else, I agree with. I played a guy who had 60 purifiers......even though there are only supposed to be 40 (they should put that in the errata so that you can only take up to 40 with Crowe). Believe it or not, I beat the guy! I got dumb lucky mind you but a win is a win

Vulkan is monster, plain and simple. He makes your army ridiculous against mech lists, he makes your army ridiculous against MC, and he makes your army ridiculous against horde lists. And since it's in the SM dex, your army is already good against everything else! He's one of those things that really just doesn't belong in the game at any point cost in my opinion.

And the Long Fang spam!?!? Talk about being contradictory to the fluff!

I'm not talking about Coteaz himself, but the storm trooper replacements that can basically take any piece of wargear made ever. Storm Shields, power armor, thunderhammers, you name it. Assassins all over the place in battle. Then being able to take this rag tag bunch and make an entire army out of them. I can see them as a retinue or command squad of sorts, but not as an army. Again, it's just one of those things that strikes me as wrong.

Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Grey Knights. Space marines are already "elite of elite" so making "elite, elite, elite" just screams bad fan fiction. I mean The elite of the elite of the elite super marines that everyone knows are the best in the galaxy but they are so secret no one even knows they exist with geneseed of the emperor! (don't even get me started on that horrible theory). That are so pure nothing can ever corrupt them and yet they need to murder innocents to combat...corruption.

Add in the fact they are the most common codex out right now with the idea of "take what other marines have but make it better". I really can't stand them.

On another note, I am surprised more people haven't said sisters of battle. Playing an army composed entirely of women is definitely not everyones cup of tea. But other than GK, I have a decent interest in pretty much all the armies. If they weren't so expensive to start up I would probably have 3-4 times the number of armies I do.

Surtur wrote:Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Acutally its 155 Points with a bare bones Chimera--170 if it takes Extra Armor. Or 130 Points if the Vets take a Doctrine before the Chimera...

Least Appealing to me has to be the Dark Eldar. That is because I have always hated the idea of "Dark" races. I can get behind a race of evil elves, but the whole "Dark" thing makes me wretch.

KplKeegan wrote:

Surtur wrote:Vet guard are one of the best troop choices in the game for a reason. 3 meltas means 2 dead marines, a terminator or a tank and all for ~140 points with transport. A transport that conveniently lets all 3 fire. And melta being top dog for special weapons. And they got BS 4. Yeah, I'm a little bitter that they can do that.

Acutally its 155 Points with a bare bones Chimera--170 if it takes Extra Armor. Or 130 Points if the Vets take a Doctrine before the Chimera...

So close... I just didn't feel like getting up and double checking so I guesstimated it. Hence the "~" :3

Least appealing has to be Grey Knights for me.. I played Dawn of War and had read a little bit about them, and it seems to make more sense for them to be an elite choice or something, don't know that they really need their own book, but I could say the same thing about Dark Angels and Black Templar.

Blood Angels seem to be at least a bit different, as well as Space Wolves, but when I was first starting the game it was a bit wtf to see so many codexes written forever ago (ie they can't even update them properly) yet they have an overkill amount of space marine books. Made me wonder why they didn't have fewer books and just try to make them all play better/equal.. Still wondering that actually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UsdiThunder wrote:Least Appealing to me has to be the Dark Eldar. That is because I have always hated the idea of "Dark" races. I can get behind a race of evil elves, but the whole "Dark" thing makes me wretch.

I agree and I play them.. I really am not a huge fan of the "Dark" word before something to represent evil, just sounds cheesy, but the book itself was pretty interesting and I eventually was sold on them with all the great models and cool units.