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sebster wrote:
The point is that establishing causation needs more than a single point of evidence.
Sure, but the forum trope involves dropping the distinction between correlation and causation without really knowing what it means, which is what I was commenting on.
sebster wrote:
These are things that have rarely had any place in biccat's theories about the world...
Tyranny is any instance in which someone prevents you from doing what you want.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I believe he is referring to the gentlemen that believe they are fighting for some kind of higher moral cause against the federal government...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
It's just not cool if there's no revolving chambers involved.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
dogma wrote:Sure, but the forum trope involves dropping the distinction between correlation and causation without really knowing what it means, which is what I was commenting on.
Ah, fair enough then.
Tyranny is any instance in which someone prevents you from doing what you want.
Pretty much, yeah.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Melissia wrote:Even with the public unions, many public workers are underpaid.
I mean hell, as notorious as teachers unions are, private school teachers (and professors at private colleges) are STILL paid more for a job that is generally considered easier and more pleasant than public schools/colleges.
I have been a Wisconsin teacher in both the public and private sector (college level/adult education classes.). I make a third of what public school teachers make working in the private sector, have nowhere near the super sweet benefits public employees get and certainly not the sweet, sweet pension.
Wisconsin public employees (with the same education level and position as a private sector employee) have pension costs that are 4 times that of public sector employees and benefit costs that are now only 2 times that of public sector employees.
In the particular town I live in the average school teacher is paid around $40/hr (yes, they are one of the highest in the state.) We were able to get this figure when the school district punished 10 employees for falsely calling in sick to go throw their temper tantrum in Madison for a few days and we discovered the savings to the city for just 3 days of missed work for these folks.
Clearly the quoted statement is not entirely true.
sarcastro01 wrote:I have been a Wisconsin teacher in both the public and private sector (college level/adult education classes.). I make a third of what public school teachers make working in the private sector,
Yeah, I don't buy this.
US Department of Labor wrote:In 2006–07, faculty salaries averaged $84,249 in private independent institutions, $71,362 in public institutions, and $66,118 in religiously affiliated private colleges and universities.
[for 2007-2009]
Faculty salaries across all ranks averaged $77,009 at public institutions (a 3.1% one-year increase) while faculty at private/independent institutions received an average salary of $92,257 (up 4.0%). Faculty at the subset of church-related colleges and universities earned on average a much lower salary of $71,857 (a 3.9% one-year increase).
(As an aside, women who are full professors get paid a full 11% less than men of the same qualifications and experience in the education field, which rather disproves the idea that these institutions are somehow "liberal")
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
dogma wrote:I'm wondering where people are prevented from hiring their own fire protection services.
Not only can we not have private fire protection, we can't even have volunteer fire fighters. The issue has been raised many times, each time with the firefighters union objecting. Because if we use fire protection services other than the city services, some firefighters might be laid off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
sarcastro01 wrote:
Melissia wrote:I mean hell, as notorious as teachers unions are, private school teachers (and professors at private colleges) are STILL paid more for a job that is generally considered easier and more pleasant than public schools/colleges.
Clearly the quoted statement is not entirely true.
See the link I posted on page 2 or so. In no category are public teachers paid less (overall) than their private counterparts.
Private teachers do get paid a little more in supplemental contracts ("compensation for extracurricular or additional activities such as coaching, student activity sponsorship, or teaching evening classes"), but not much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/07 11:52:01
Frazzled wrote:
You must have missed the GSA fiasco and firefighters retiring on $300,000 a year. Hey I respect that and would get it if I could. but the taxpayer can't afford it.
Govenrment unions are a relatively new phenomena in the US, an experiment that has failed.
According to this, there are 278,300 paid firefighters in the US...that's $83.4bn by my maths.
Then take into account rent, running costs, pensions etc...
Yeah, bs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
biccat wrote:
dogma wrote:I'm wondering where people are prevented from hiring their own fire protection services.
Not only can we not have private fire protection, we can't even have volunteer fire fighters. The issue has been raised many times, each time with the firefighters union objecting. Because if we use fire protection services other than the city services, some firefighters might be laid off.
You can have volunteer fire fighters if you like
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:
(As an aside, women who are full professors get paid a full 11% less than men of the same qualifications and experience in the education field, which rather disproves the idea that these institutions are somehow "liberal")
What evidence do you have that ALL of the women doing those jobs are of equal merit to men?
That's an average, so some will be better, some will be worse.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/07 11:55:56
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
biccat wrote:
Not only can we not have private fire protection, we can't even have volunteer fire fighters. The issue has been raised many times, each time with the firefighters union objecting. Because if we use fire protection services other than the city services, some firefighters might be laid off.
Well played on their part, then. One must protect one's living.
Testify wrote:
You can have volunteer fire fighters if you like
Yup.
True Samaritans ignore legal hurdles.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/07 12:01:30
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Frazzled wrote:
You must have missed the GSA fiasco and firefighters retiring on $300,000 a year. Hey I respect that and would get it if I could. but the taxpayer can't afford it.
Govenrment unions are a relatively new phenomena in the US, an experiment that has failed.
According to this, there are 278,300 paid firefighters in the US...that's $83.4bn by my maths.
Then take into account rent, running costs, pensions etc...
Yeah, bs.
You don't think to separate things do you. You don't need a union to have firefighters.
Again, as noted, this really isn't even about firefighters. Thats a smokescreen for government unions and bureaucrats whenever reducing the growth of spenidng comes up.
"We'll have to layoff cops!!"
"No. Just fire half the people who aren't cops."
"But..cops!"
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote:
You must have missed the GSA fiasco and firefighters retiring on $300,000 a year. Hey I respect that and would get it if I could. but the taxpayer can't afford it.
Govenrment unions are a relatively new phenomena in the US, an experiment that has failed.
According to this, there are 278,300 paid firefighters in the US...that's $83.4bn by my maths.
Then take into account rent, running costs, pensions etc...
Yeah, bs.
You don't think to separate things do you. You don't need a union to have firefighters.
Again, as noted, this really isn't even about firefighters. Thats a smokescreen for government unions and bureaucrats whenever reducing the growth of spenidng comes up.
"We'll have to layoff cops!!"
"No. Just fire half the people who aren't cops."
"But..cops!"
What?
If firefighters want to be in a union, why shouldn't they be? People in dangerous professions tend to unionise much more anyway (hence coal miners being highly unionised, in the UK anyway).
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Frazzled wrote:
You must have missed the GSA fiasco and firefighters retiring on $300,000 a year. Hey I respect that and would get it if I could. but the taxpayer can't afford it.
Govenrment unions are a relatively new phenomena in the US, an experiment that has failed.
According to this, there are 278,300 paid firefighters in the US...that's $83.4bn by my maths.
Then take into account rent, running costs, pensions etc...
Yeah, bs.
You don't think to separate things do you. You don't need a union to have firefighters.
Again, as noted, this really isn't even about firefighters. Thats a smokescreen for government unions and bureaucrats whenever reducing the growth of spenidng comes up.
"We'll have to layoff cops!!"
"No. Just fire half the people who aren't cops."
"But..cops!"
What?
If firefighters want to be in a union, why shouldn't they be? People in dangerous professions tend to unionise much more anyway (hence coal miners being highly unionised, in the UK anyway).
because they work for the govenrment and get paid by the taxpayers. if even FDR was against it then there's something wrong with the idea.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I'm torn. While I'm generally pro-union I don't much care for Walker and his actions. I've always been of the opinion that unions are just as corrupt as management, but at least the Union makes the pretense of being on your side.
That said, I do love the cynicism and despair caused by this failed recall attempt.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
biccat wrote:See the link I posted on page 2 or so. In no category are public teachers paid less (overall) than their private counterparts.
With the exception of private religious colleges, this is a false statement.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Frazzled wrote:
because they work for the govenrment and get paid by the taxpayers. if even FDR was against it then there's something wrong with the idea.
So anyone who's an employee of the state is not entitled to any workplace rights whatsoever? Then no one would ever work for the state.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote:What evidence do you have that ALL of the women doing those jobs are of equal merit to men?
That's an average, so some will be better, some will be worse.
What evidence do you have that women, on average, do jobs of less merit than men?
None.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Testify wrote:What evidence do you have that ALL of the women doing those jobs are of equal merit to men?
That's an average, so some will be better, some will be worse.
What evidence do you have that women, on average, do jobs of less merit than men?
None.
Well I have evidence that they're paid 15% less...people who're paid less are probably doing a worse job.
People don't get paid according to how much their bosses like them.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Testify wrote:What evidence do you have that ALL of the women doing those jobs are of equal merit to men? That's an average, so some will be better, some will be worse.
What evidence do you have that women, on average, do jobs of less merit than men?
None.
Well I have evidence that they're paid 15% less...people who're paid less are probably doing a worse job. People don't get paid according to how much their bosses like them.
By that reasoning, the reason that we kept blacks as slaves is because blacks aren't good at anything other than slave labor.
IE, it's stupid reasoning, because payment rendered is not an actual indication of the value of one's contributions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/07 14:01:59
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
" -KingCracker
Frigian 582nd 
