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The parry save for power weapons is right out of the "pancake" rules. I'm sure it's safe to assume that it only applies to basic power weapons. those without any special rules. So Nemesis Force Weapons will not provide a 5++. Actually many of these rumours seem like they are from the "pancake" rules (or slightly changed), so maybe more was kept from that than we were led to believe.

airmang wrote:The parry save for power weapons is right out of the "pancake" rules. I'm sure it's safe to assume that it only applies to basic power weapons. those without any special rules. So Nemesis Force Weapons will not provide a 5++. Actually many of these rumours seem like they are from the "pancake" rules (or slightly changed), so maybe more was kept from that than we were led to believe.

Or maybe (*gets out tinfoil*) certain sites repost believable rules in order to milk the opportunity for website hits before 6th ed hits?

airmang wrote:The parry save for power weapons is right out of the "pancake" rules. I'm sure it's safe to assume that it only applies to basic power weapons. those without any special rules. So Nemesis Force Weapons will not provide a 5++. Actually many of these rumours seem like they are from the "pancake" rules (or slightly changed), so maybe more was kept from that than we were led to believe.

That or we're getting trolled/rumor reverb from the old pancake rumors. If the core things from pancake actually are in 6th I'll be a happy guy.

airmang wrote:The parry save for power weapons is right out of the "pancake" rules. I'm sure it's safe to assume that it only applies to basic power weapons. those without any special rules. So Nemesis Force Weapons will not provide a 5++. Actually many of these rumours seem like they are from the "pancake" rules (or slightly changed), so maybe more was kept from that than we were led to believe.

Or this entire mess is merely culled from pancake and that is it. Whomever is issuing these "fresh" rumors may not have gotten the memo. I put no stock in these, I'll wait until the actual release. If it's as bad as this, great, I saved $100. If it's good, well great. I can keep playing. Even with these changes I could still be optimistic enough to believe that GW fixed things elsewhere that make these changes balanced. Certain rules, when taken in a vacuum are just horrible. When you see what else was done, you begin to understand why.

The truth is, GW is trying to control information, but they are not doing it. Silence is not control. In the absence of news, people create news. Others listen and may believe. If those rumors spread, GW has lost control of their message. If they remain silent, nothing stops the rumors, and people get angry, fed up, and leave. Only by releasing information can they control it.

im sad to say i dont like any of the rumours so far.. well apart from the AV14 one, but thats cos im that guy who rocks 3 LR all the time -_- lol

I know this doesn't have much to do with the actual rules of 6E but the question is on my mind, are there any rumblings of special edition accessories to go along with the new edition and 25th anniversary of 40k?

Dice, Templates, etc? I know we got the finecast model but heres to hoping for more goodies right?

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

These simply cannot be true.
Buffing bolters this much basically means stormbolters are useless, why ever take a stormbolter?
They better damn give stormbolters an appropriate buff to still make them worth taking and paying points for over rapid fire weapons.

Also what weapons get that relentless extra shot, rapid fire only or will stormbolters on relentless minis also get an extra shot?

Power weapon ap3 is even worse, this is the death to all non-fist terminators.
How can a non fist terminator army (typical GK or normal LC termies, wolfguard with power weapons, claws etc) stand up to say a deathwing all fist or normal fist/hammer heavy army?
One version of terminator eat other termies for breakfast while the other version can do nothing in return.

Pyriel- wrote:

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

These simply cannot be true.
Buffing bolters this much basically means stormbolters are useless, why ever take a stormbolter?
They better damn give stormbolters an appropriate buff to still make them worth taking and paying points for over rapid fire weapons.

Also what weapons get that relentless extra shot, rapid fire only or will stormbolters on relentless minis also get an extra shot?

Presumably, the incentives to take storm bolters would be moving and still firing twice at 24" and being able to charge after you fire.

The Rapid fire rules have me skeptical: combi-bolters have always(?) been better at short range, but this would make them just better.

I'm fine with the PF vs. PW distinction: it encourages a mix-- PFs would be necessary to deal with other 2+s, but PWs give you the speed to not always strike last. I think all terminator variants have a power fist (or equivalent) option?

Pyriel- wrote:

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

These simply cannot be true.
Buffing bolters this much basically means stormbolters are useless, why ever take a stormbolter?
They better damn give stormbolters an appropriate buff to still make them worth taking and paying points for over rapid fire weapons.

Also what weapons get that relentless extra shot, rapid fire only or will stormbolters on relentless minis also get an extra shot?

Power weapon ap3 is even worse, this is the death to all non-fist terminators.
How can a non fist terminator army (typical GK or normal LC termies, wolfguard with power weapons, claws etc) stand up to say a deathwing all fist or normal fist/hammer heavy army?
One version of terminator eat other termies for breakfast while the other version can do nothing in return.

Storm Bolters allow you to charge afterwards, AND are all S5. I mean, GK are the only ones that count, right? In seriousness, who can take SB that actually get them as an upgrade as opposed to standard? Termies have alot going for them apart from SB, in fact I'd say that's only a small fraction of their overall damage output and factors almost nothing into their cost. PAGK get SB standard, and even the buff of RF weapons wouldn't affect them much, if at all. They are still S5 shots, they can still assault afterwards, still get psychic powers, and access to S7 rending weapons. I don't think ayone is concerned about the pintle mounted SBs on Rhinos...

Really what this does is give an amusing boost to Chaos termies (if true) as they've always been lacking in their non-heavy weapon firepower.

It also (naturally) gives a lovely boost to anyone fielding Plasma (and hmm, a BRB boost to plasma right before releasing Dark Angels...?) As observed, TH/SS termies gain a boost in CC but are barely affected by this increase as you can really only hurt them with AP2 weapons outside of CC, and they have a 3++, but all other termies die at a much higher rate.

Nagashek wrote:In seriousness, who can take SB that actually get them as an upgrade as opposed to standard?

Sternguard but taking them means you can't use their fancy ammo rules so it's a terrible idea even with Rapid Fire being as it is right now.

Hull points don’t work as rumored: they are only for front armor 14 vehicles and work like a structure point or a “wound” which can be used to negate any result, even wrecked or explodes. not sure if this is a once per game thing, i suspect so. but no more one shotting land raiders and monoliths with meltaguns

Makes large vehicles more survivable, and also would seem to fit with the "Heavy" vehicle type from the Necron book


Pens give +1 to all subsequent damage rolls in that shooting phase, so essentially after a pen all weapons shooting a vehicle become AP1.

Not sure about this one, but it does make some sense. Only question is how it handles multiple pen hits at the same time.

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Adds a lot of mobility to troops, and helps units like Tac squads, Fire warriors, IG Squads, and plasma weapons.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

Fair trade, and fluffy. Parry save is invul I assume? would it stack with existing Invul saves like Nemesis Power Swords?

Stunned results stack to weapon destroyed, extra armor negates 1 stun per turn, not sure on shaken.

Makes sense.

Strength vs Toughness chart changed to be like fantasy, so everything can be wounded on a 6.

I hope the To Hit in CC chart is redone as well to allow for 2+ and 6+ results. Make it follow the SvT to wound chart and it makes it even easier to learn and play, rather than 2 different charts.

There's going to be a bunch of FAQ/erratas when it drops for all codices.

Obvious

Vehicles being hit in combat auto if stationary, 3+ is going 6", 5+ if going 12", 6+ if going flat out.[i]

I like this. Makes range bands matter a bit more. Hoping fliers work with 12" range bands instead of 6" then odd flat out speeds.

[i]Vehicles going flat out can only be hit on a max of 4+ with shooting, fliers hit on 6+.

Fast vehicles harder to hit? Genius!

Damage results stack so shaken -> stun -> weapon -> immob -> wreck

Makes sense. I would love to see a 0 or less -> no result on the damage chart though.

Preferred enemy gives re-rolls to hit with shooting and in combat, but not the re-rolling of 1s to wound.

This buffs PE. I would like to see them bring back more of the targeted PE though, rather than global.

I like most if not all of these rules. I hope all of these, as well as the idea that vehicles can fire all weapons when moving combat speed, or one weapon at cruising speed are true.

Grimtuff wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I really don't like the look of these rumours. Far too much bookkeeping on vehicles. Maybe they are trying to swing it back to Infantryhammer?

The only real bookkeepy thing would be the pen hit bumps damage rolls. As for the rest, it makes plenty of sense to me. If a tank is shaken and takes another shaken result, it bumps to stunned instead. If a tank has a stunned result, and takes another stunned, it bumps to weapon destroyed. A tank can keep losing weapons til it runs out, then it bumps to immobilized. If a tank is immobilized and takes a second immobilized result, it bumps to wrecked. I imagine shaken and stunned results go away as now.

People already keep track of damage done to vehicles, with markers or dice. It's a logical system that works rather simply. I do hope for a 0 or less no damage result though. And maybe a 7+ annihilated result, where any passengers all take an auto wound and are autopinned.

Ahhhh nerd rage about rumours. Really speaks about the character of the person complaining/whining/sulking/crying.

Why not just wait till the actual 6th edition book comes out before nerdraging?

I'm seeing a multitude of reactions here. Among them, though, there's no rage. That would require a level of RAAGH! and unreasoning hyperbole that's not really in evidence here. Nobody's spamming exclamation points or posting in call caps. I don't see anyone whining, either.

Davor wrote:Ahhhh nerd rage about rumours. Really speaks about the character of the person complaining/whining/sulking/crying.

Why not just wait till the actual 6th edition book comes out before nerdraging?

Sorry, but it's not unreasonable to express discontent about the possibility of something happening. Happens in politics all the time

The new rumors seem like total bogus to me. Necrons would be rocking everyone's vehicles left and right - spam Warriors and glance everything to death in seconds.

Infantry? Here we go Wraiths.

I'm nerdraving about these rumors! I like them and hope to see these incorporated into 6th edition.

ShumaGorath wrote:

terranarc wrote:Something about that just feels so off.

A lot of that is literally ripped from pancake edition and the vehicles rumors make no sense.
So let me get this straight, if I stun you twice, a weapon pops off? If I penetrate you once with an autocannon, all other missiles and bolters being fired from the opposite side of the vehicle magically find its way into the hole I made previously? Haha
FFS, these are the worst wishlist/fake rumors I've ever read.

Still thanks for passin it along Mez.

Makes about as much sense as shaking or stunning a tank in the first place. When an armored vehicle takes a hit that does nothing to it the people inside don't hide under their chairs and wait for the noise to go away.

The hit that does nothing is the one that did not glance or pen.

I am very excited about the possibility of these things - just a few of these minor changes give some of the older armies a boost as well....a stationary crisis suit now gets three plasma shots? Yes please.

Firewarriors get two shots at 30" if they dont move? (hoping they will faq their RF range is 30").

Now, if kroot get assault for their guns....those changes alone would make tau competitive again.

Presumably, the incentives to take storm bolters would be moving and still firing twice at 24" and being able to charge after you fire.

Sob?
I see far to little stormbolters (outside GK) as it is and not buffign rapid fire weapons relative to the stormbolter will see even less variation.

Ahhhh nerd rage about rumours. Really speaks about the character of the person complaining/whining/sulking/crying.

Why not just wait till the actual 6th edition book comes out before nerdraging?

Complaining and sulking? Might as well be passion but I guess thinking a step further that whining was to much to ask.
Besides, raging at nerd ragers...what does that tell about your own character?

Pyriel- wrote:

Presumably, the incentives to take storm bolters would be moving and still firing twice at 24" and being able to charge after you fire.

SOB?
I see far too little stormbolters (outside GK) as it is and not buffing rapid fire weapons relative to the stormbolter will see even less variation.

GK henchmen and some IG models also get options for stormbolters. I think they are worth the points so what limits me is a lack of available stormbolters for the model conversions. It's that limitation, not the rules, that prevents more people from using them IMO.

EDIT: Looks like current edition IG have lost any options for stormbolters except for Yarrick and vehicle weapons.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

The only real bookkeepy thing would be the pen hit bumps damage rolls. As for the rest, it makes plenty of sense to me. If a tank is shaken and takes another shaken result, it bumps to stunned instead. If a tank has a stunned result, and takes another stunned, it bumps to weapon destroyed. A tank can keep losing weapons til it runs out, then it bumps to immobilized. If a tank is immobilized and takes a second immobilized result, it bumps to wrecked. I imagine shaken and stunned results go away as now.

People already keep track of damage done to vehicles, with markers or dice. It's a logical system that works rather simply. I do hope for a 0 or less no damage result though. And maybe a 7+ annihilated result, where any passengers all take an auto wound and are autopinned.

Actually, the bigger chore would be marking exactly how far each vehicle moved during its turn. If you wanted to use proper markers to track it you'd need at least three different kinds for this task alone (assuming a stationary vehicle is marked by receiving no marker).

Altruizine wrote:[Actually, the bigger chore would be marking exactly how far each vehicle moved during its turn. If you wanted to use proper markers to track it you'd need at least three different kinds for this task alone (assuming a stationary vehicle is marked by receiving no marker).

Isn't that just like now?

The great thing is I still have that "leaked PDF", and if the rules show to be a pain in the ass, i will have where to run...

But seriously: to much lucky breakes strategy in any game... Rolled distances for assault, and roled psychic powers seens to be game breakers, as anyone could ever relly on those things anymore...

6th is coming, im waiting for it, and if it come in a way I dont like, them i will use 5th, until the 7th shows up

Pyriel- wrote:Sob?
I see far to little stormbolters (outside GK) as it is and not buffign rapid fire weapons relative to the stormbolter will see even less variation.

I have no idea how much they cost in the current SoB list but I know with Space Marines it's a codex problem rather than a problem with the main rules. A stormbolter would be superior to a regular bolter under the rumors we've seen, just not by a whole lot so they shouldn't be a very expensive upgrade. I'd like to see more stormbolters too but that's an issue for future codexes rather than the main rulebook.

Pyriel- wrote:

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

These simply cannot be true.
Buffing bolters this much basically means stormbolters are useless, why ever take a stormbolter?
They better damn give stormbolters an appropriate buff to still make them worth taking and paying points for over rapid fire weapons.

Also what weapons get that relentless extra shot, rapid fire only or will stormbolters on relentless minis also get an extra shot?

Power weapon ap3 is even worse, this is the death to all non-fist terminators.
How can a non fist terminator army (typical GK or normal LC termies, wolfguard with power weapons, claws etc) stand up to say a deathwing all fist or normal fist/hammer heavy army?
One version of terminator eat other termies for breakfast while the other version can do nothing in return.

As a DW player my heart bleeds tiny little tears of pure pain for SW and GK ooooo its terrible such a misery that the 2 most OP armies in 40k my get a nerf while one of the worst (for beginers) may get a huge buff... awww the Huge manities.... waill and tug at yer hair... sarcasm off lol

But on topic... this is all gonna be false anyway..no rumour is true untill the book is out... lol

Nagashek wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

Rapid Fire: double tap up to 24” if stationary. 1 shot at 24" or 2 shots at 12" if moving. Relentless gives and extra shot at each range if stationary as well as the standard bonus.

Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.

These simply cannot be true.
Buffing bolters this much basically means stormbolters are useless, why ever take a stormbolter?
They better damn give stormbolters an appropriate buff to still make them worth taking and paying points for over rapid fire weapons.

Storm Bolters allow you to charge afterwards...

Not to mention that there are other armies than SM that use rapid fire weapons. Not everyone cares about your stormbolters.

The rapid fire rules don't make sense for Hot Shot Lasguns though I'm willing to accept a 24" range for them in 6th edition.

erikwfg wrote:

Altruizine wrote:[Actually, the bigger chore would be marking exactly how far each vehicle moved during its turn. If you wanted to use proper markers to track it you'd need at least three different kinds for this task alone (assuming a stationary vehicle is marked by receiving no marker).

Isn't that just like now?

lol, owned.

If I'm reading this right...

"Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat. "

Grey Knight Nemisis Force Swords add +1 to any save, therefore all Strikes will now have 4++ in close combat...

WHAAA?!

Was noted already, but discussed whether they would actually get this new bonus seeing as they aren't power weapons, they just "counts as".