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Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

I still think you are putting too much in the Necrons favour. Of course you are trying to illustrate a point but when making assumptions I tend to look at the worst possible outcomes. Some of the things I have issues with:

You mention pre-softening the Terminator unit, but make no mention of the same happening to the Warriors. It makes more sense to leave this out of the equation entirely.

10 TH/SS terminators will not have the same issue of getting into base contact. They have less than half the number of models and their bases are significantly larger.

I still don't see how you are rapid firing and charging. If you are within 12" you should have been charged last turn. If not then you are backing up? Where does this fit in with them advancing mercilessly as a hardcore cc unit capable of pushing for objectives?

The biggest issue I have though is the fact that if you take 20 Warriors, a MSS, Weave and Warscythe lord and a MSS, Weave, Warscythe, Phase Shifter and Res Orb Overlord you have now got to take units that support said unit. A couple of Ghost Arks are necessary to keep numbers up which entails buying another unit of Necrons. By now we have spent a good 800pts on 1 unit and it's support. And it's a unit that does have limitations (against a hardcore deathstar unit it is going to come up short and it can't touch fliers).

A unit of terminators don't need said support since they function as beatsticks and the rest of the army can be pretty much whatever else you want it to be. There's plenty of room for anti-air and another Deathstar of their own if they so choose.

I have to say I haven't seen warrior blobs at any competitive events. Any links available?

I certainly didn't mean anything with my own "competitive" comment. I have seen lots of different lists win events, some that run contrary to popular opinion. Heck I even run Deathmarks which are considered inferior to Wraiths but that's the unit that works for me.

However there are some units that no matter how you use them they will never be competitive. Warrior blobs aren't in that pile, but they do require an extreme expenditure of points and a lot of support from the rest of the army. Hence semi-competitive. Most of the best units in the game (IMO) are capable of synergizing with other units without relying on them to work at full effectiveness.




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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




You mention pre-softening the Terminator unit, but make no mention of the same happening to the Warriors. It makes more sense to leave this out of the equation entirely.


Well, the idea was, in a vacuum, between just those two units, Warriors can soften TH/SS terms, but cannot be softened in return.

10 TH/SS terminators will not have the same issue of getting into base contact. They have less than half the number of models and their bases are significantly larger.


Sorry, didn't mean to imply the exact same issue, but they can still have issues with it. Also, everybase they "lose" to this will be much more detrimental then a couple of Warrior bases.

I still don't see how you are rapid firing and charging. If you are within 12" you should have been charged last turn. If not then you are backing up? Where does this fit in with them advancing mercilessly as a hardcore cc unit capable of pushing for objectives?


Terms only move 6 and assault 2d6"...so it's pretty unlikely they pull a 12" charge off. Think about any scenario from the Necrons perspective. Now, true, if your dancing with Terms, you might not be making your way to the objective (although you still can be, unless they are standing exactly in between you and it), but that's just a matter of changing your strategy to deal with a very respectable CC threat. Most armies don't have something like that to deal with.

The biggest issue I have though is the fact that if you take 20 Warriors, a MSS, Weave and Warscythe lord and a MSS, Weave, Warscythe, Phase Shifter and Res Orb Overlord you have now got to take units that support said unit. A couple of Ghost Arks are necessary to keep numbers up which entails buying another unit of Necrons. By now we have spent a good 800pts on 1 unit and it's support. And it's a unit that does have limitations (against a hardcore deathstar unit it is going to come up short and it can't touch fliers).


Yeah but, your acting like those 800 points aren't doing anything in their own right. Warriors with Crypteks in a GA is a viable unit by itself, it, and the blob, only become better once you combine them together. 99.99% of units can't touch fliers...what does that have to do with anything? And can it get out deathstarred? Only by much more expensive deathstars, but then again, they are much more expensive.

A unit of terminators don't need said support since they function as beatsticks and the rest of the army can be pretty much whatever else you want it to be. There's plenty of room for anti-air and another Deathstar of their own if they so choose.


The Terms can't shoot and can't score, cost about the same, and get rolled by this unit. I'm not sure where you're coming from here.

I have to say I haven't seen warrior blobs at any competitive events. Any links available?


I've seen them posted, I'll have to dig to find them though, because admittedly the flyer craze has hit Necrons pretty hard (not in a bad way, more as in a build de jour way). I think as things normalize you'll see blobs more and more. It actually works quite well with flyers, as it gives them the anchor and board presence that they lack. I think it's very comparable to a Guard blob (which has gotten quite popular as of late), not quite as punchy in CC, but quite a bit more resilient.

And I hear you on the competitive deal. I was reluctant to post the rant at all, because I know it's mostly just a pet peeve of my whenever that word is used.

I think Warriors work just fine on their own, but having a solid scoring anchor is valuable in any list, particularly with the NOVA format. You need to be able to exert pressure on the enemy, and shooting alone, or all to easy to counter Wraiths, don't always do the trick. In all this talk we've kind of ignored the best thing about the blob, it scores and it doesn't die, and thats why the points spent on CC are worth it, as shooty only blobs are very easily countered by any kind of CC. Killing 20 Res Orbed Warriors with GA support and an Overlord to soak some wounds is damn near impossible.
   
Made in cn
Blackclad Wayfarer





From England. Living in Shanghai

I hear you. The Warrior blob is fantastically resilient. But I still think there are issues with spending 800+ points on a Single scoring unit plus it's support elements.

If we look at 3 of the best Deathstars in the game it's you can see they spend a similar amount of points but are capable of more than just surviving, but also smacking down pretty much anything on the table They also don't require much in the way of support (which is where the points even out):

1. Paladins. Throw in Coteaz and you get access to Divination which means you are now a serious threat to fliers...Or at least the ones that matter since Necrons can only take up to 3 Doom Scythes.

2. Ork Nob Bikers. A nasty force in cc and shooting and the only flier they are afraid of is (again) the Doom Scythe. Fortunately their TL guns are capable of glancing them to Death and they will be getting a nice cover save most of the time, plus they will be combat turn 2.

3. Harlesquin Deathstar. A little cheaper but really resilient to shooting attacks. Throw in a Shadowfield Archon plus Eldrad and you have a real nasty unit that can get to where it wants to be and hit hard. This unit may not be able to deal with fliers but they don't really care about them either.

All 3 of these have about the same level of resilience as the Warrior blob (or more) but they are capable of doing so much more than just advancing and holding an objective. Nob Bikers can score with a Warboss. Paladins can score with a Grand Master or Draigo. Harlequins can't but damn are they resilient to shooting on the way in, especially with Fortune on them.

This is where the competitiveness of a unit (and army) begins IMO. Look at the unit in a vacuum and give it a function. Can it perform? Does it have survivability? Does it compromise the rest of the list? Does it synergize well with other units?

This is why I personally like Scythes over Warrior Blobs. They give Deathmarks (and 5 man Warrior Squads with Voltaic Crypteks) an excellent and accurate way of getting 30" up the table. They are hard to kill and can perform on their own. Once you start looking at the untangible benefits you can also see you can use their bases to limit, if not block completely assaults on your more fragile ground units as well.

Then if we look at the Warrior Blobs we see they can fulfill their purpose. They are extremely resilient. While they don't compromise the rest of the list they do require a lot of support and the list is really built around them. This does however mean that they are synergizing well, but with the loss of the support perhaps they won't be quite as efficient. It's really when you start looking at the untangible benefits that I think the problems become more apparent though. Large unit size means you can get drawn into combat where your models don't all get to attack. There are some units which this can't deal with. Since you have invested so heavily perhaps the rest of the list is lacking also. Next you can see this unit is not a "Fire and Forget" Deathstar unlike most others. They require intense management and a small mistake, or even a bad set of dice rolls can cost you the unit and thusly the game. And finally your "Tank" is a scoring unit. I said if before but I think it bears repeating that I would rather my opponent shot at something that wasn't scoring if it is that integral to my plan.

Sorry to go off on a rant. Just figured I would put it all out there in 1 go.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




All good points. The big difference I would point out is the blob itself is really only 400 to 500 points depending on options, the 2 Ghost Arcs, assuming occupants, are two independent scoring units and 4 independent (6 technically with both broadsides, although rarely used) firing units. Those are some huge advantage of Nobs and Pallies, which are one scoring unit that can fire at one target.

Like I was saying before, a Ghost Arc carrying warriors and a cryptek is a legitimate unit in its own right. It carries decent dual threat fire power, sufficiently resilient, and it scores. The fact that on top of doing that it also buffs the blob is just a bonus.

From my experience, because of how resilient it is, once you've got the blob, a GA or two with occupants, and maybe an extra 5x, you're basically done with your troop selection. In my blob armies I regularly run only three troops (including the blob), which allows me to still invest a decent chunk of points into pretty toys.

Now, granted, I wouldn't recommend going this route on anything less then 1850, maybe 1750. I've done it for lulz at 1000, and you basically play the stalemate game.
   
 
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