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SaganGree wrote:


Whats interesting is how many people think its "easy" to pull this off.

Take the example above, some gaunts and a Swarmlord... several things have to occur.
1. You have to be within 18" - be within 12" to have a greater than 50% of making the assault.
2. The Swarmlord must either be the same distance as the gaunts and/or closer than the average 12" of the gaunts
3. The guants have to have a small enough squad that they don't get in the way of said Swarmlord's advance
4. The Swarmlord has to be alive....

The last point is the most important... because if the wraithguard get within 12" of the Swarmlord, its toast. Especially with all the goodies of Divination.

It doesn't matter what size squad the gants are, you only need one to declare a charge at the wraithguard, and they have to declare their overwatch against the first unit charging at them, which means that all the "goodies" of divination don't mean squat, they can waste them all wasting the gant squad, heck if the gant squad is big enough the wraithguard would thin them down to make room for the swarmlord.

And I can count a lot of times that I have gotten my swarmlord into combat with this very squad, the one you find so laughable that he would be alive, I have never had them kill him off, because it turns out tyranids also have their own good psychic defenses aswell

So yeah, it is just that easy.

Or you can fly up with 5x (or more) deathmarks, 2x despair-teks and make most of that unit disappear with 2x ap2 templates + sniper shots all wounding on 2's for around 255 pts. No charge necessary. Damage done. These are all hypothetical arguments. most everything has a counter, but your unit + strategy is a solid/scary list. I wouldn't want to face it with a non tailored list!

Like I said earlier I wouldn't take my SL withing 24" of that unit unless it was engaged or I had some severe level of buffs going on (iron arm and TK dome at the least)

Like I said originally a unit of 20-30 gargoyles would be my first choice. Throw in a unit of stealers with a BL after that and call it a day.

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:
Well, just so you guys know, I took the combo to a 1500 point tourny. I faced Necrons first round (a nice guy, but really new to the rules and a highly suboptimal build so no suprise) for a win on objectives holding 3 to 1 and I had 1 secondary.

Second against Enigma Crisis, who had a highly optimized build and played it well. This was a kill points game and I took him 5 kill points to 2 and I had all 3 secondaries he had 1.

Final round was against a fella named xerios, he brought a midway optimized army of 2 20 man blocks of warriors w rez lords,10 immortals w tesla, 2 annihilation barges, a monolith, an ark, a destruc tek a quake tech and an overlord. It was a great game, but by the end of turn 5, he had 5 immortals left with his overlord and a cryptec that were locked in combat with a wraithlord. It was a big guns never tire mission, and I had 5/6 objectives, and 5 secondaries (heavies give up a secondary when destroyed)

I placed 1st overall, and was awarded supreme general. So In these particular missions, this combo is devistating. Still need to try it out against some DE...

So what you are saying is that....

Game1- It was handed to you by a crappy build and new player.

Game2- IDK what the guys army was but you played a kill point game, which is one thing your list is good at as you have not many units and they are hard to kill.

Game3- Once again it seems you got lucky on the big guns mission due to having wraithlords. This guy shouldnt have lost near that bad with that list. he could have at least contested the objectives you were sitting on.

Please post your list.

 Razgriz22 wrote:


Please post your list.

It was in the first post:
10 wraithguard with a conceal seer w witchblade
Farseer with 5 powers and witnessing runes
Eldrad

2x5 pathfinders
13 guardians w eml,
2 wraithlords w dual flamers, bright lance and eml

I think it was later corrected for the number of powers on the Farseer.

Sorry about that. I wasnt sure if that was the exact tournament list. And if that was the list.... I am really curious as to how he held 5/6 objectives. Even in a heavy guns play type... that means basicly after the WHOLE GAME nothing of his died. As you can only hold one objective per unit.

So to be able to hold 5 objectives you need 5 units on the board. The list has 6 units. He only lost one unit?? I just cant fathom that. And if that is true (not calling him a liar) Then the opponent was terrible ( the third game with the necron player). There is just no way, short of stupidity or extreme newness to the game, that with that necron force you couldnt kill more then one unit.


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I also cant fathom how the necrom player lost ALL 40 of his warriors. What did he do??? Charge your wratihguard with them? and if he had his imortals locked in combat with them to, i just cant see how he could possibly know what he was doing.

That's easy, the Necron play has absolutely no mobility, so has basically no options on what to shoot because he can't kite the Deathstar. He has no Barge Lord/s to zoom past them and cut everything in his backfield on shreds (or just charge the Deathstar and lock it up for the rest of the game), no Doom Scythes to quickly drop the Eldar heavy hitters and no Night Scythes to dump scoring units onto backfield objectives/torrent things off. There is no way the Warrior blobs would ever do anything, since they aren't going to end up in rapid fire range of anything apart from the Wraithguard or Lords, and single shots into Pathfinders isn't going to cut it.

The Eldar player has No mobility either.... The 2 anihilation bardges, doomsday ark and monolith can put out plenty of firepower. It isnt hard to force saves on pathfinders when you have so many shots. Locking the wraithguard in combat cant be hard with 20 bodies and LD 10 AND reanimation proticals with a res orb. I would also assume the cron player had his overlords/ lords with war scythes and mindshackle scarabs. That should crush anyone in a challenge. TL tesla destructors/ cannons will quite suitably force saves on wraithlords. If the "ark" is referring to the doomsday ark, then he has quite an awesome shot from that if he kept is stationary. Which agaisnt a slowwww eldar team wouldnt be hard to do.


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The necron player still had more mobility then the eldar.

All Im saying is, I played a 2k point tourny this weekend, and won it with a 500pt Ork build. I even held 3 objectives with my DAKKAjet since turn 2. Pretty impressive ya?

I don't see where this list is that scary. Against my BA list that I like to run, i will be killing on average 3 Wraith guard a turn, and he will be doing 1 Glance/Pen a turn. And that is with both of us getting the powers we want.

My list is 3 Baals and 3 Vindies. I can out move, and out shoot where his death star will be nothing by the time he gets to me, if I let him get to me.

Hey all my list ultimately ended up being as follows

Eldrad for brb power access
Farseer w stoned row, fortune guide

2x11 guardians w eml

2x5 pathfinders

2x bright lance eml, dual flamer wraithlords

10 wraithguard w conceal seer.

Oh and enigma crisis brought tau, dont recall the list exactly, but it was 3 2 man crisis suit teams, 2x2 broadsides, 2x8 firewarriors, 1 pathfinder squad, one crisis suit commander and a devilfish.

Well, maybe he isn't so mobile most of the time but I'd sure hate to be on the recieving end of that unit if he just happened to have his warlord trait be the one that lets the Warlord and the unit he was with outflank.

Yeah, it's not the best deathstar out there but I've run a similar one before and that one unit ended up killing Marneus Calgar, Lysander, and five thunderhammer/stormshield terminators in two turns. My opponent tried to crush them with thunderhammers and ended up eating some D cannon shots on the way in, then my 4++ saves helped the unit survive. Marneus died to Eldrad's staff of Ulthamar and doom, as well as misfortune from the other farseer.

Lysander just died to normal hits because his dice rolled low for two turns. Two failed saves a turn will do that to you Gotta love Misfortune on the enemy unit

In a 1500 point game though I don't think I would ever take this. In a 2k or more game though I most certainly would, though I would probably add the Baron or Baharroth for some Hit and Run shenanigans.

Also, in my last game, i lost 3 guardians and one wraithguard. My opponent deployed hard on my left flank, so i countered by throwing my wraithguard on my left and concentrated everything else center right.

Turn one consisted of my wriathguard making it to the center board, 6" plus run of 6". He had already advanced a block of warriors, and the lith up their 6". My next turn, i moved 5inches due to dt, but was out of it with my movement, and now quite close to the warrior block, i shot it and then assaulted, he lost but stayed in combat. During his turn i beat him and ran him down. My phase the wraithguard moved up further, and fragged the lith. The transport ark thing was close by and didnt get far enough away. He then moved up his second blob of warriors and rapid fired with 40 shots and dropped one wraithguard. Then moved, shot charged and wiped the squad. Next target was the ark transport thing. It blowed up too. My wraith guard held an objective, while my lords held their own, the two squads of path finders held 2 objectives, and one guardian squad held an objective (onky one wraithlord held an objective, the other had his immortals and overlord tied up in cc.

That tau player should har been able to beat you by sheer out ranging you most of the game. And the necron player played horribly. He went after the one unit he couldn't kill. Instea of all the others he could. You don't seem to be playing opponents that are too tactically skilled.

On a side note. This star could hurt really bad in a kill point game.


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And if the necron player was out-deployed he could have deep struck the monolith on the other side of the board the. Teleported units to its gate. I also don't know why he would har any of his vehicles come near your guard. Their amazing shielding would mean nothing.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
That tau player should har been able to beat you by sheer out ranging you most of the game. And the necron player played horribly. He went after the one unit he couldn't kill. Instea of all the others he could. You don't seem to be playing opponents that are too tactically skilled.

I only had 2 units that constantly plinked shots at his deathstar. I had 2 squads of Fireknives go take on everything else.

1.He never failed a single 2+ cover save for his Pathfinders and Deathstar unit when not fortuned. and

2. My dice crapped out on me.

When You have 16 rapid fire shots from Pulse Rifles on Guardians and only 1 managed to wound or a Rail Cannon failing to wound a Wraith Lord for a couple rounds that is saying something. If my dice would have liked me more the game would have ended in a tie.

The necron player deployed 1st, so yes i did out deploy him. He underestimated the destructive output of my wraithguard i think. It was still a great game against a great guy


@ enigma crisis recall your crisis command team, a squad of firewarriors, a squad of kroot, and a squad of broadsides packing it in to them jeff. I do agree tho, your dice were mad at you. Apperently i looked "pissed" one of the new guys asked me what you did, i was confused, he said my face was beet red. I lold, my body temp was around 3000000000 deg f. I was roasting and apperently turned really red, i.e. looked pissed

Only the broadsides and firewarriors constantly shoy at them
The kroot and command team turned to finishing off your wraithlord near the end.

OK im falling for the trap... lol. Here is what I came up with to improve your list but at a 1850 pt level which if the pt level my local tournaments run. I tried to keep the general idea of the list and negate its weaknesses. Here it goes.

ELDAR
HQ
Eldrad-210
Farseer- 140
RoWit, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom

TROOPS
10 Wraithguard- 396
Warlock, spiritseer, conceal
3 Guardian Jetbikes- 76
3 Guardian Jetbikes- 76

ELITES
10 Harlequins- 250
Shadowseer
10 Harlequins kiss

HEAVY
3 War Walkers- 170
5 Scatter Lasers, 1 Shuriken Cannon
Wraithlord- 155
2 Flamers, EML, BL

DARK ELDAR
HQ
Baron Sathonx- 105

TROOPS
5 Wyches- 135
5 Haywire Grenades
Venom, Splinter cannon, Night Shield
5 Wyches- 135
5 Haywire Grenades
Venom, Splinter cannon, Night Shield
TOTAL- 1850

 Razgriz22 wrote:
OK im falling for the trap... lol. Here is what I came up with to improve your list but at a 1850 pt level which if the pt level my local tournaments run. I tried to keep the general idea of the list and negate its weaknesses. Here it goes.

ELDAR
HQ
Eldrad-210
Farseer- 140
RoWit, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Doom

TROOPS
10 Wraithguard- 396
Warlock, spiritseer, conceal
3 Guardian Jetbikes- 76
3 Guardian Jetbikes- 76

ELITES
10 Harlequins- 250
Shadowseer
10 Harlequins kiss

HEAVY
3 War Walkers- 170
5 Scatter Lasers, 1 Shuriken Cannon
Wraithlord- 155
2 Flamers, EML, BL

DARK ELDAR
HQ
Baron Sathonx- 105

TROOPS
5 Wyches- 135
5 Haywire Grenades
Venom, Splinter cannon, Night Shield
5 Wyches- 135
5 Haywire Grenades
Venom, Splinter cannon, Night Shield
TOTAL- 1850

Well thats really pointless I can improve my own list if I have more points to play with!! Also, you have to actually HAVE venoms (which I refuse to purchase on principle) and guardian jet bikes. Neither of which I own XD

With the models I own, to improve my list, I would probably throw a scatter walker squad, add warlocks to both guardian squads, and give the guardian squads as many bodies as I had points left.


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Also, I am not sure why you dropped of the pathfinders, them dudes were worth their points EVERY game I have played with them XD

I approve highly of the scatter walkers. Cant get better bang for your buck anywhere. Why do you have "principles" agaisnt venoms? lol. Its not like they are palidins or something :-P. I actually use my vypers for venoms as many did prior to the venom model release.

There seems to be quite a war over the use of rangers/ pathfinders in other threads. If i take them i take plain rangers and in groups of 10. Thats how i've had the best results at least. When ever i take smaller groups, they lost a model or two and fail their leadership and run. Or they somehow take a flamer to the face. But its good to hear the small groups are working elsewhere.

lol paladins? talk about the most overhyped unit in the game! Paladins are a joke, and hard as heck to run in this edition!!! Ask me how I know? *hint, I have 2500 points of an overhyped unit XD*

Also, Raz, you would be interested to know, I think, that I was able to pull off a relatively solid win against new CSM yesterday. Opponent had 3 helldrakes with flamers. He wiped out my entire army, except the wraithguard unit that trucked his ground forces and pushed them off their objectives only to camp one at the end for a 5-2 win I just need to see if I can do something similar against deldar (Im pretty sure I can adjust tactics to meet them (especially since instead of a 4++ rerollable, I will have a 2++ rerollable against them XD)


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Also, venoms are the dumbest unit in the game and I deTEST spam!! Not only does an entire army of 5 man squads with as many blasters as you can pack in require NO tactical accumen, but its ugly and boring!!!! Its a snooze fest to play, and even worse to play against. No venoms. period. (even if not spamming XD)

Paladins can still be run very well this edition. But I guess it all depends on the meta. Once again, some armys have a hard time with paladins, others may not. A plasma cannon squad catching them in the open with no cover can hurt them yea, So can double multi melta speeders. But they still can pump out shots and screw people up in combat. They may not be as broken as last edition though. And now that the entire unit isnt characters, they cant look out sir as effectively. I dont beleive draigowing is dead though.

I chuckle at venoms being the dumbest thing in the game. But they are good. There seems to be less blasterborn and more harwire grenade wyches out there. Cheaper and overall just as effective. Venomspam is just as "boring" as any other mech list. Same as mechdar in 5th. Or rhinospam or whatever. One could also argue that the wraithwall ran by 2 hqs is also boring. Just comes down to personal preference.

Good win agaisnt a hard hitting list with the dragons. Im assuming you got fortune and the 4+ invuln power off every time. Those flamers would wound on a 4+ and you would get no save otherwise. 3 of them would surly make a dead wraithwall. Even with a re-roll 4+ invulnerable, the dragon can place it for probably 8-10 hits on the unit. Thats 4-5 wounds. Math would say thats 1-1.25 dead wraiths per template. taking 3 a turn is 3-3.75 of them dead. Im assuming he concentrated their templates to the rest of your army though. But even with the fortune and 4++, they could have hit hard. Good win though. Arent those dragons like 200 pts a piece?

How did your guys victory points break down?


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And out of curiosity, how will you be getting a 2++ re-rolls when you play agaisnt eldar? Will you divert all you book powers to rolling for that invisible one?

With the shear amount of str 8 in the game, i honestly dont think paladins are even close to their previous standing.

I do think venoms are dumb haha, they are too good for what they are. I dont knoe why your meta thinks anti mech is better than anti anything i.e. blasterborn. And i would catagorically deny that mechdar is prima fscia equivalant to venom spam. Eldar technically only have one transport, so to play mechdar you are technically forced to spam them. My mechdar list has 3 wave serpebts and 3 walkers at 1500, so not really spam huh?

Thanks, i actually got pooped on by dice, most areas but my saves. I actually periled 6 times in the game, aleays on snake eyes. I got the invul off every time, but failed to fortune acouple of times. I just kept bouncing into combats he couldnt win onto his objective. The final score was one primary to zero, and tied on secondaries

And ya, against most armies, i just roll on telepathy. Against ones with tons of ap3 ignore covet armies, i roll on divination. Depends on how many dice it takes me to roll the key powers i need haha. And ya, helldrakes are like 175ish


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Oh, and the 2++ rerollable, is from conceal lock plus stealth and shrouded i.e a 2++ cover save

As much as I was against it in my posts, I may try to incorporate it into a list just to try it. I can see some armys fearing it and trying to take it head on (bad idea) or some ignoring it completely (may be a good option). As long as there isnt 5 objectives on the board it may have some chance.

dont forget that if there are 5 objectives, deploy as far forward as possible across from the greatest concentration of objectives, OR in such a way that you are threatening an entire flank within 2 turns (2x6" plus 1/2 d6" plus 12") with the wraithguard. Also, even though you can only hold 1 objective, you can contest as many as you are within 3" of, so dont be scared to spread out if necessary!

Either way, enjoy, have fun and may the mon keigh fear our footsteps... woah.. pardon me *punches inner hard-core-nerd back into place* XD