Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well thats a pity. Using this logic I can no longer attempt to shoot down fliers with Hive Guard, since they would be choosing to Snap Fire. Or even fire heavy weapon if you move at all, since they are snap shots.

You can fire the Heavy 4 and snap shot or you can fire Assault 2.

And thats exactly what I've been saying this entire tiime but no one seems to realise that.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:
Im sorry, does the FAQ say explicitly that special powers do not work?

Wrong thread?

You do not make logical leaps of faith when arguing RAW.

Correct.

And that would be the shooting phase, which as far as I can tell is irrelevant.

... How is that irrelevant?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fragile wrote:
Well thats a pity. Using this logic I can no longer attempt to shoot down fliers with Hive Guard, since they would be choosing to Snap Fire.

Not true. You choose to fire and your shots are resolved as Snap Shots. Note the difference and how I've addressed that at least twice in this thread so far. Perhaps you'd like to address those posts and point out where I'm wrong?

Or even fire heavy weapon if you move at all, since they are snap shots.

The FAQ doesn't address movement, only firing decisions, since the scope of the question is limited to the firing phase.

My mistake, you are correct. Half of that post was for the wrong thread.

It refernces the shooting phase in passing simply because that when you shoot. Nowhere does it say "If I do something the the shooting phase that makes me snapfire on a choice I cant snapfire"

You cant pick what the phrase "Choose to Snapfire" means. The way you are suggesting to play also suggests that if you do ANYTHING and I repeat ANYTHING that makes you snapfire you have CHOSEN somewhere to snapfire. You cannot say, "Well you cant choose to do anything in the shooting phase that would make you snapfire" Because thats not what the FAQ says.

That is a leap of logic, and is not RAW.

I am overwatching, so I am choosing to fire snap shots..... Guess we can scratch that one too..

If we follow Rigeld's interpretation, yes.

Fragile wrote:
I am overwatching, so I am choosing to fire snap shots..... Guess we can scratch that one too..

Except you're granted explicit permission to do that.
Guess you can stop trying to straw man me too.

Thats not an argument, does not back up a point, and contains no rules refernce. That statement is meant only to inflame and is against the tenets of YMDC

Rigeld, your ignoring half of the FAQ you quote for your support. All those example I gave were cases where I choose to fire a snapshot, which you claim is illegal. The FAQ states instead of a normal shot. A normal overwatch is snapshot, a normal shooting at a flier is a snapshot, a normal firing of a heavy weapon that moved is a snapshot. If i can shoot Overwatch or at a Flyer then I can fire a Heavy weapon that moved as a snapshot.

Fragile wrote:
Rigeld, your ignoring half of the FAQ you quote for your support. All those example I gave were cases where I choose to fire a snapshot, which you claim is illegal. The FAQ states instead of a normal shot. A normal overwatch is snapshot, a normal shooting at a flier is a snapshot, a normal firing of a heavy weapon that moved is a snapshot. If i can shoot Overwatch or at a Flyer then I can fire a Heavy weapon that moved as a snapshot.

In the case of an overwatch, do you have the option of firing a "normal shot"?
In the case of firing at a flier, do you have the option of firing a "normal shot"?
In the case of a moving heavy weapon, do you have the option of firing a "normal shot"?

In all of those cases the answer is no, and therefore the FAQ does not apply to you at all.

In the case of the Psycannon it's different - you explicitly *do* have the option of firing a "normal shot".

rigeld2 wrote:
In the case of the Psycannon it's different - you explicitly *do* have the option of firing a "normal shot".

If you are firing Heavy 4, you do not have the option to fire a normal shot. They all myst be snap shots.

No, you have the option of choosing fire mode. At no point do you choose to snap shot

You are stating that the consequence of a choice is the same as choosing the consequence, when that isnt how the rules work.

You choose to fire Heavy. The rules FORCE you to snapshot. The FAQ does not apply

If the weapon had different lines separating the profiles, I'd agree. As it's one line meaning one profile I just can't see that based on the rules on page 51.

I might concede RAW but I believe RAI is that a moving PA unit should never be able to fire Heavy with a Psycannon. Note that I'm still not convinced RAW they're able to.

rigeld2 wrote:
I might concede RAW but I believe RAI is that a moving PA unit should never be able to fire Heavy with a Psycannon.

Now, this line I can agree with you on. And I could see GW FAQ'ing this to make your stand on it correct. But currently the rules say that you only have to choose whether to fire it Heavy or Assault.

One profile, or two, what does it matter?

The Codex gives you a choice of Heavy 4 or Assault 2. when you select one of them you then find the rules that say you are forced to snap shot if you have chosen Heavy 4.

You are not choosing to snap shot, you are forced to snap shot.

 DeathReaper wrote:
One profile, or two, what does it matter?

The Codex gives you a choice of Heavy 4 or Assault 2. when you select one of them you then find the rules that say you are forced to snap shot if you have chosen Heavy 4.

You are not choosing to snap shot, you are forced to snap shot.

Before this merry go round circles again, can the above bold be double checked? I'm away from my books, so while I'm not attempting to quote anything, but does it really give you a choice? Doesn't it say "X if stationary or Y if moving"?

Nope just says it can be fired as a Heavy weapon or an assault weapon.

The codex entry for psycannon says:

Assault 2 or Heavy 4*, Rending

* a psycannon can either be fired as a Heavy weapon or as an Assault weapon (note that models in Terminator amrour always use the Heavy option).

So by that you may always choose whether to fire Heavy or Assault unless you're in Terminator armour.

Edited numerous typos . . .

culsandar wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
One profile, or two, what does it matter?

The Codex gives you a choice of Heavy 4 or Assault 2. when you select one of them you then find the rules that say you are forced to snap shot if you have chosen Heavy 4.

You are not choosing to snap shot, you are forced to snap shot.

Before this merry go round circles again, can the above bold be double checked? I'm away from my books, so while I'm not attempting to quote anything, but does it really give you a choice? Doesn't it say "X if stationary or Y if moving"?

No it does not say "X if stationary or Y if moving"

I guess I should have included a quote from the GK Codex.

Yeah, there's absolutely no mention of moving: merely a choice between Assault 2 and Heavy 4 for non-Terminator armoured models.

 Blood and Slaughter wrote:
* a psycannon can either be fired as a Heavy weapon or as an Assault weapon (note that models in Terminator amrour always use the Heavy option).

Doesn't that give you the choice then, regardless of FAQ?

BRB (FAQ) says no choice.
Codex says choice.
Codex wins.

?

culsandar wrote:

 Blood and Slaughter wrote:
* a psycannon can either be fired as a Heavy weapon or as an Assault weapon (note that models in Terminator amrour always use the Heavy option).

Doesn't that give you the choice then, regardless of FAQ?

BRB (FAQ) says no choice.
Codex says choice.
Codex wins.

?

No codex in general trumps BRB where there is a conflict. FAQs in general trump both where there is a conflict.

Regardless I think we have finally come to a "general consensus". RAW you can, RAI lots of people dislike it. It dosent bother me either way but I do agree that it will be FAQ'd soon.