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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

And none of those rules revoke the 'Shooting is simultaneous' clause in the shooting rules.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 DeathReaper wrote:
And none of those rules revoke the 'Shooting is simultaneous' clause in the shooting rules.


Ok, no one has said shooting isn't simultaneous. Wound resolution is not. Shooting is, wounding isn't. Move on from this, they are not the same thing and you seem to think they are.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Wound resolution is a part of that unit's shooting, and thus simultaneous.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 DeathReaper wrote:
Wound resolution is a part of that unit's shooting, and thus simultaneous.


No, wound resolution is part of the shooting sequence, it is not part of "shooting". Shooting is only determined when you figure which models can fire and rolling to-hit.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

The shooting sequence is how you determine what happens when the unit is shooting.

It is all a part of that unit's shooting.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 DeathReaper wrote:
The shooting sequence is how you determine what happens when the unit is shooting.

It is all a part of that unit's shooting.


Indeed, but the only place that mentions things being "simultaneous" is rolling to-hit. Rolling to-wound has it's own set of rules and timing.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

There is no "all shooting is simultaneous" clause, per se. The shooting phase resolves sequentially, for the most part. If one unit blows up a transport, for example, another unit can shoot at the now-disembarked former occupants, for example.

The remaining rule in the 6th ed rules about simultaneity of shooting is under Which Models Can Fire?, on page 13. After explaining that some models may choose not to fire, it explains that "This must be declared before rolling To Hit, as all of the models in the unit fire at the same time."

I can see where Death Reaper's coming from in interpreting "fire" to mean "completely resolve their shooting attacks", but I don't think that's compatible with the 6th ed wound allocation and casualty removal procedures, which are very clearly sequential. Rolling To Hit is simultaneous, as made clear under Which Models Can Fire?, but everything on page 15, Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualites, lays out a sequential procedure under which you allocate and resolve wounds one at a time on one model at a time, where one model is dead and removed before the second model ever gets/has to make a save.

The time at which a model uses Feel No Pain is when IT fails a save. And per the Blood Angels FAQ, that is the moment at which you check whether the Chalice is in range to affect that model.

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The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

What else could fire mean, if not resolve that unit's shooting attack?

If this were the assault phase would you rule it differently?

Say at I5 the enemy attacks and the first wound from the wound pool is a precise strike that targets the Sang Priest. he fails a look out sir, and fails his armor save, now the other wounds from that initiative 5 are allocated and rolled for, do the subsequent models get the benefit of FNP?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

At this point I don't think they would, no. I think that's part of the big change from 5th ed to 6th ed style wound allocation and resolution.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Even though the Assault rules say "If both sides have models with the same Initiative, their attacks are made simultaneously"

So we know all attacks at any given initiative are made simultaneously. Attacks are the process of rolling to hit/wound etc until the wound pool is empty.

The whole process is worked out at the same time as far as the rules are concerned.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 DeathReaper wrote:
Attacks are the process of rolling to hit/wound etc until the wound pool is empty.

You keep saying that. Since you continuously assert that, you obviously have rules to cite.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

"If both sides have models with the same Initiative, their attacks are made simultaneously" P. 23

"Dead Before Striking: If a model becomes a casualty before its Initiative step, it cannot strike back. When striking blows simultaneously, you may find it more convenient to resolve one side's Attacks and simply turn the dead models around to remind you that they have yet to attack back." P. 26

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 21:34:58


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Neither of those quotes assert that an "attack" is the entirety of the rolling to hit, wound, etc process.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
Neither of those quotes assert that an "attack" is the entirety of the rolling to hit, wound, etc process.

"they have yet to attack back." This shows that an "attack" is the entirety of the rolling to hit, wound, etc process, as models still need to resolve the whole process of making their attacks, which could cause casualties on the opponents side.

It also shows that the whole process is resolved simultaneously, because "When striking blows simultaneously, you may find it more convenient to resolve one side's Attacks and simply turn the dead models around to remind you that they have yet to attack back." P. 26

Plus we know what simultaneously means, so everything happens at any given initiative at the same time.

Also the assault phase sections details what is involved with a model making its attacks, note how the process details "the entirety of the rolling to hit, wound, etc process."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/29 23:45:59


"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
 
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