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 Vineheart01 wrote:
Even if they changed dakkajet rules (which from what i hear, they didnt) i wouldnt buy this because i rarely use dakkajets anyway...im on the fence of calling them useless as pt for pt lootas are WAY better and only have the advantage of not being pi-plated....but pi plates that reach that far are rarer than the dakkajet actually surviving random fire from blowing it up since its av10 for some stupid reason.

For the points I'm not sure more than AV10 would be warranted, really. As it is, 18 twin-linked S6 shots when waaaaghing can be pretty damn nasty. Good luck surviving that against your Vindicator's or Predator's side armor, for example - which isn't always feasible to avoid, either. On average it needs 4+ to hit and thus hits what, 13-14 shots? Needs 5+ to glance, so 4-5 glances or penetrations. Bye bye tank, and points earned back easily. Admittedly against other fliers it is not superb, as it needs 5+ to hit and so only hits with 10 shots, with 5+ to glance AV11 resulting in ~3 glances or penetrations of which one on average gets jinked/invul saved, or against AV12 only 1-2 glances.

 Sarigar wrote:
There was no information of use for any of my armies in the fliers expansion. I also have no desire to play 40K scale dogfights. If I want an air to air styled game, I'll play Star Wars (I know they use space ships, but I hope you get my point).quote]

Pity you live in the states i've always wanted to play against someone but there are no players in my area.

Edit*************

*** Stop Press! ****

For all the whining we do here at Dakka, GW website (Canada) just informed that the Death from the Skies book recieved huge success and is sold ouf of stock! a new print run is currently in progress for those people who were late to order.

I have now come to accept the fact that us 'hardcore' players who acturally own hundreds of models, are avivd players, loves the game so much that we post here to complain rules/prices/finecast is only a small, small minority and not GW's target audiences.

either that, or the old wisdom of a "fool and his money are soon parted" is GW's motto, and they boldface the "fool" and "money" sections as key items in their marketing strategy and target demographics.

Well, it's as if GW Inc are trying to **** me off even more about the whole mess.
I came to terms with BA (and GK...) not being allowed the Storm Talon, cause well, frankly, that's just typical of GW corporate.
I had held on for some hope at least Forge World would throw us a bone. After all, forge world are models may by hobbyists to sell by hobbyists, right?


Apparently not.

Forge World wrote:Storm Eagles aren't available to Blood Angels. There's a price for refusing to reveal STC data.

So, they are apparently citing 'the background' as the reason and yet 'the background' is changed by GW on a whim to allow Codex Marines to get Storm Ravens.

This is then later followed up with:

Forge World wrote:The point is, Blood Angels and Grey Knights do not have access to Storm Eagles.

Well, gee, thanks.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I'm happy to see the rules in a book available since I didn't get the relevent WDs. I'm ok with them changing who gets access to them. I'm fine with GW charging money for a book of rules...

I'm peeved that the GW rep told my FLGS that this didn't exist the morning before. I'm angry that my FLGS was told they can't order it! As others have said, no retail is no sale.

Sadly in the latest post by GW the book has sold out. They will be printing more next month.

Seems like what everyone was hoping would be a dud ended up being a big seller for them.

I am new to the game. I play CSM, and I have about 1500 points in boxes and being built. I think the BRB is already confusing enough. I buy my models on eBay, so I get them cheaper already. I think this sounds really stupid, and a way for GW to try to make even more money than they already do.

On the one hand, I'm glad everyone is getting a flier patch and that the flier WD supplement is no longer an OoS nightmare. On the other, this feels like a really cludgy patch. It doesn't really feel like a massive money grab to me since 40k really did need an update like this but it does feel quite messy. The direct order nonsense is, well, GW being GW I guess. Same with the insufficient number of copies; I didn't find out about the release until it was gone.

If they make a suitably large print run for the next wave and send it out to retailers I might get a copy, but I've (mostly) sworn off buying things from the GW website. After learning that ordering from the website and having it shipped to a GW store doesn't even count as a sale for the store, meh, what's the point? It doesn't support the store, and it doesn't get me a discount... it's the worst of online and retail shopping combined. Then again, they're now in a race to get more copies in stock before the digital release, so who knows.

A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.

It's not even a patch.

If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.

If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.

As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.

Bought it and I'm sure it will be fine, just like all of GW's other books. I don't even bother paying attention to the haters anymore, as it seems no matter what GW does they are "wrecking" the hobby.

Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Bought it and I'm sure it will be fine, just like all of GW's other books. I don't even bother paying attention to the haters anymore, as it seems no matter what GW does they are "wrecking" the hobby.

This.

 Sephyr wrote:

A patch that does no real balancing or fixing of issues. Just removes some older terminology, changes the availability of some of the existing stuff to different armies, and that's that.

It's not even a patch.

If it had bumped Vendetta cost to 150 points, given Dark Eldar flyers Vector Dancer or the Ork Flyers their own version of the Ramshackle table, it would be a patch.

If it had brought new flyers for Tau and Eldar, it would be a supplement.

As it is? Glorified, overpriced little FAQ wit pretty pictures.

Very accurate summary.

"Stop liking what I don't like!"

You don't want to buy it? I'm pretty sure that your LGS will have a copy just for the costumers. Even some costumers may have it and I'm pretty sure you can peek. Hell, in a couple of months, every LGS that uses fliers will know the rules without checking it.

Is the LGS a GW? Here I am even more sure that they will have a copy for you to check.

You don't have to buy it. You can blame GW for the expensive FAQ, but not about the rules themselves as being "useless", mainly because is one of the few times that GW release all his stuff about something together, and not leaving something without updating.

You can blame the point cost of the vendetta, though.

Like others have said, no need for me to get this as I play eldar.

If it had a new eldar flyer in it, I would most likely bite GWs hand off to get it. As it is, no thanks!

So, Death From The Skies just turned up this morning.

I had bought it due to having the Storm Talon...

Part 1

AT £20, the book is 72 pages long. Softcover, reminiscent of the old Campaign book covers (EG Black Crusade)

The back cover is just a load of pictures of the flyers for sale.

Page 5 - 20: "The Battle of Cadrim" - This looks like a slightly extended version of the section in White Dwarf when the storm talon came out. It includes the same pictures of the White Scars armies etc.

Page 23 - 29: Air War Missions.

Mission 1: Deadly Bridgehead: Space Marines with Necron[i] allies, against Orks.
Mission 2: Scramble; Space Marines V Orks
Mission 3: Aerial Assault: Necrons V orks with Space Marine allies
Mission 4: Death from the Skies: Necrons V Marines

Page 32 - 40: Burning Skies - Looks like a reprint of the Crusade of Fire rules

Page 40 - 55: Gallery pictures

Now we're coming to the important bit

Page 56: StormRaven Beastiary: It includes the FAQ updates. EG, a Dreadnaught taking s10 hits if the flyer explodes and is zooming. The important note is [i]Blood Angels and Grey Knights armies use the rules printed here though their storm ravens have additional wargear options and rules - see the army list for details. Also, new piece of artwork. An ultrasmurf storm raven.

DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.

F5 F5 F5

 Furyou Miko wrote:
DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.

And? At the GW where I play the manager and the staff have bought it, they have it there with their armies and let the customers check them, not as GW staff, as players themselves.

The other gaming stores have bought it too just to let the customers check it.

Also the tournaments organisers in my zone have bought a pair of them for the tournaments, the same way they print the FAQs.

If your zone really wants to get the things done, they will do this, because for them, it's not a waste of money, it's an investment.

Edit: Even more, a friend of my just bought 2 ravens just because he checked the rules from the staff guy DFS book.

le gasp, they're breaking GW's plans up! How did I not see this coming?! (No, really... how?)

Part 2

Page 57: Storm Talon: Still 2 HP. It now has the Strafing Run rules. Type (Flyer, Hover). Escort craft rules looks to be clarified to avoid anything BS-ey. Can't escort anything using Outflank / Deepstriking. Plus other stuff. NO supersonic rules

Page 58: Valkyrie/Vendetta: Exactly the same as the IG codex, but with HP's added in - Same as rulebook. Also the Grav Chute Insertion rules have been updated with the FAQ rules

Page 59: VoidRaven/Razorwing: I'm assuming these are the same? Razorwing Armour 10, VoidRaven Armour 11. Night Vision/Supersonic rules

Page 60: DoomScythe: Looks the same as before
Page 61: NightScythe: Broadly the same as before. They clarify the embarked unit doesn't take damage when destroyed. Also they enter through normal reserves? No mention of rembarking on a night scythe... However. "If a night scythe has moved more than 24", the disembarking unit may only fire snap shots."

Page 62: Dakkajet: No Hover. However, Strafing run, supersonic. Fighta Ace upgrade has been renamed to 'flyboss' - it basically gives him Strafing Run against things you don't get strafing run against.... Aside from that, same as before.

Page 63: Burna Bomber, Blitza Bomber: Seems the same as before, with obvious changes. No hover. Supersonic, waaagh plane! Edit: Yep, points costs and upgrades are identical to White Dwarf.

Page 64: Wargear. A burna bomb is a bomb... Death Ray looks like it has rules changes... It hurts friendly models too. It can't hurt zooming flyers or flying monstrous creatures.

Page 65: Wargear. Everything looks the same.

Page 66: StormStrike Missiles: I dunno what to say, they actually seem to kick rear end... S8, AP2, concussive...

Page 68: Army List:
Storm Raven: Heavy Support: Yup, marines and templars get storm raven. Nothing for space puppies. Grey Knights and Blood Angels don't get stormstrike missiles. The rest looks broadly similar
Storm Talon: Marines/Black Templars only (typical). Fast Attack. A lot cheaper in points. The most expensive version is 10 points cheaper than before.

Page 69: Army List:
Valkyrie And Vendetta: Identical to earlier rules

Page 70:
Razorwing, Voidraven, Doom Scythe, Night Scythe:
I think these are identical to their normal rules

Page 71: The Ork Flyers: In all honesty, they seem the same as the white dwarf. I think someone with more of an ork brain will need to pick out the diffferences.

Page 72: Summary Page.

------------------

So, there you go. That's what your getting for your £20, and that's what the FLGS' are losing out on.

[i]Edit: So, in summary, it seems only Black Templars and Codex Marines players really need to buy it.

Well, thanks for all of your opinions Dakka. Seems like GW made a grat mistake.

Again.

so it's another bolter round into GW's coffin - Too bad it's clad in terminator armour, paired with the fact that no - one is actually in the coffin too. Looks like GW know no fear in the face of their angry customers - they march us like grots through minefields and still expect us to pay the painboy.

Next year, GW releases a book that gives guardsman power armour and more and more blood angels cheeses.

That was sarcastic. But being Gw it will probably come true.

GA

Just got a look at DftS myself, and once again it feels like GW is just out of touch with it's customers. The disparity among flyers is set to remain until, potentially, a 6th edition codex is released for every army. Oh well, back to painting that Quad-Gun.

So what do I think about this overpriced piece of errata?

The pilots of the Grey Knights are gifted beyond the abilities of any other Space Marine pilot. A potent psyker in his own right, the pilot is as likely to fire mind bullets as he is missiles at his enemies.

I think the writer has to calm down or it might fall off.

Being a psyker makes you better at everything obviously, even pressing buttons to fire missiles.

DakotaBlue wrote:
"

You don't have to buy it. You can blame GW for the expensive FAQ, but not about the rules themselves as being "useless", mainly because is one of the few times that GW release all his stuff about something together, and not leaving something without updating.

You can blame the point cost of the vendetta, though.

you kind of a have to buy it if you want to use a SR or have a vendetta or a dakka jet in your army., just like you have to own a codex to legaly play the game . no opponent will care that everyone knows that a vendetta is 130pts , if you dont have the book he will call a judge .

There's nothing in the imperial guard codex or FAQs that says you need to have Death from The Skies. So the dude can call the judge over all he wants

And, the rules are identical anyway.

Codex Marines though, definitely do need it if they're fielding flyers

 Furyou Miko wrote:
DakotaBlue - you'd think that, but no. It's direct only, so your only chance of seeing a copy EVER is if someone you know bought it from the GW website.

Except that direct only products aren't, shockingly enough, direct only, since stores can order - even if not necessarily preorder - them. So you can indeed see a copy without another customer having ordered it from the GW website.