Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

TBH neither.

Riptides aren't a big deal. They have a 1/3 chance to fail to make their main gun actually good. They're also a bit of a jack of all trades, decent at a few things, but not really specialized at any one task. They go down hard to shooting and close combat with massed low S attacks or high S attacks with things like PFs etc.

They are a solid choice in an army with lots of other shooting and more importantly a LOT of synergy. A Riptide with a Buffmander is a serious threat, but also a lot of eggs in one basket.

Helldrakes are in a lower threat category. They are a one trick pony that is great at one thing, flaming down high value 3+ armor units.

They have 2 major weaknesses. One is that they are flyers. Flyers get and average 2-3 turns of effective fire per game. That's basically it. They benefit from having torrent fire, but even still there is only a limited window time/targets that they can hit before they have to go off the board due to maneuvers or enemy fire.

Their other major weakness is that the are part of the CSM codex, which has about 3-4 good units total incl the Helldrake, so really they're not a big deal in the current competitive environment.

Helldrakes are just to hunt troops and create a bullet magnet due to their " player passing word" of being beasty.

They do are annoying and being a flyer that can shoot 360º 20" flamer torrent can be a bit pain. Also only flyer with 12 all round and 5+ invul combined.

Although if you wanted to make whos more OP bettewn riptide and helldrake youre seriously pointing the wrong target

Riptide on CSM are Equivalent to CSM Nurgle obliterators, those are the closest equivalent things to riptide.

One thing i find fun in these arguments is all the "but Riptide lists were so present at NOVA while drakes were not".
Does that mean that Riptide is more OP then Drakes? NO.
What it means is that a TAU list with Riptides is more powerfull then a CSM with Helldrakes.

As mentionned about 150 times in the exchanges, Riptides are really great when buffed (barseer, commander, ML...).
Lets say you face a list of SM with one allied helldrake or one allied Riptide, which would be better? (then they do not benefit from the rest of TAU great synergy).
As a GK i would say that i would prefer facing a Riptide then a drake.
However i prefer facing a CSM drake heavy list then a Riptide heavy Tau list. But that is only due to what makes the riptide good, which is not itself alone...

Yeah heldrakes are prolly more "op" in that they don't roll to hit with vector strike or flamer, both ignore cover, it can ignore the assault phase, and most of the shooting phase.

The main issue is the "CSM" tax of using them with other less powerful units. Riptides are a solid unit in a fully solid codex.

sleekid wrote:
One thing i find fun in these arguments is all the "but Riptide lists were so present at NOVA while drakes were not".
Does that mean that Riptide is more OP then Drakes? NO.
What it means is that a TAU list with Riptides is more powerfull then a CSM with Helldrakes.

As mentionned about 150 times in the exchanges, Riptides are really great when buffed (barseer, commander, ML...).
Lets say you face a list of SM with one allied helldrake or one allied Riptide, which would be better? (then they do not benefit from the rest of TAU great synergy).
As a GK i would say that i would prefer facing a Riptide then a drake.
However i prefer facing a CSM drake heavy list then a Riptide heavy Tau list. But that is only due to what makes the riptide good, which is not itself alone...

I agree. Looking at the units by themselves, the helldrake is a much nastier stand-alone threat imo. The riptide tends to be hard to put down, but is very unpredictable with it's firepower. Once you factor in the rest of the army, the riptide becomes considerably more deadly, but to do so relies on support elements that are relatively easy to dispose of. The helldrake retains it's offensive and defensive qualities, regardless of what units you are supporting it with.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

sleekid wrote:
One thing i find fun in these arguments is all the "but Riptide lists were so present at NOVA while drakes were not".
Does that mean that Riptide is more OP then Drakes? NO.
What it means is that a TAU list with Riptides is more powerfull then a CSM with Helldrakes.

As mentionned about 150 times in the exchanges, Riptides are really great when buffed (barseer, commander, ML...).
Lets say you face a list of SM with one allied helldrake or one allied Riptide, which would be better? (then they do not benefit from the rest of TAU great synergy).
As a GK i would say that i would prefer facing a Riptide then a drake.
However i prefer facing a CSM drake heavy list then a Riptide heavy Tau list. But that is only due to what makes the riptide good, which is not itself alone...

I agree. Looking at the units by themselves, the helldrake is a much nastier stand-alone threat imo. The riptide tends to be hard to put down, but is very unpredictable with it's firepower. Once you factor in the rest of the army, the riptide becomes considerably more deadly, but to do so relies on support elements that are relatively easy to dispose of. The helldrake retains it's offensive and defensive qualities, regardless of what units you are supporting it with.

Ever play a Tau army that uses tetras? They're not all that easy to dispose of. With disruption pods equipped you are forced to spend an inordinate amount of fire power to take down his highly mobile markerlights. Much tougher nut than pathfinders if you ask me. Also a riptides buffmander is going to be difficult to eliminate as well. I haven't faced a combo like that yet but i will soon. As someone who plays against multiple riptides regularly, I cant stand them.

That being said, what is the best way to deal with 2 riptides? Focus fire on 1 and ignore the other? Ignore both and focus fire on troops? Neither option seems good, but I can't think of many others (besides JotWW, Force Weapons, Distort weaponry, other effects that are not reliable)

astro_nomicon wrote:

Ever play a Tau army that uses tetras? They're not all that easy to dispose of. With disruption pods equipped you are forced to spend an inordinate amount of fire power to take down his highly mobile markerlights. Much tougher nut than pathfinders if you ask me. Also a riptides buffmander is going to be difficult to eliminate as well. I haven't faced a combo like that yet but i will soon. As someone who plays against multiple riptides regularly, I cant stand them.

That being said, what is the best way to deal with 2 riptides? Focus fire on 1 and ignore the other? Ignore both and focus fire on troops? Neither option seems good, but I can't think of many others (besides JotWW, Force Weapons, Distort weaponry, other effects that are not reliable)

As a Tau player I enjoy playing against enemy tetras as they melt just as easily as pathfinders in woods.

astro_nomicon wrote:
Ever play a Tau army that uses tetras? They're not all that easy to dispose of. With disruption pods equipped you are forced to spend an inordinate amount of fire power to take down his highly mobile markerlights. Much tougher nut than pathfinders if you ask me. Also a riptides buffmander is going to be difficult to eliminate as well. I haven't faced a combo like that yet but i will soon. As someone who plays against multiple riptides regularly, I cant stand them.

That being said, what is the best way to deal with 2 riptides? Focus fire on 1 and ignore the other? Ignore both and focus fire on troops? Neither option seems good, but I can't think of many others (besides JotWW, Force Weapons, Distort weaponry, other effects that are not reliable)

Honestly, they don't pose much of a problem for either my necrons or DA to take out in a turn or two

I'll knock out the markerlight support, then the troops, then if there is time/resources, focus the riptides one at a time. This is assuming they aren't packing a missileside deathstar, which is usually priority number one, depending on what I'm bringing.

GoliothOnline wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 En Excelsis wrote:
(a DE Venom with a squad of kabalites can kill it in one round of shooting with decent - not great, decent - rolls).

5 warrior in rapid fire range and the venom. 22 shots. average 15 hit, 7 wound, 1.2 wounds get past the armor save. So yes, if they roll decently, and by decent I mean 4 times better than average, can kill it in one round of shooting.

A single lascannon has a .11 chance to destroy or weapon destroy a drake. A single lascannon rolling 4 times better than average has a .55 chance. A single lascannon is a lot cheaper than 5 DE warriors in a double cannon venom and is availible to more armies.

in what logical world?

you still have to pay for that squad carrying the lascannon...

5 warriors and a venom is what? 100 points? not even?

5 warriors and a venom costs 110pts
about the same as 5 marines with 2 lascannons. Of course 5 marines with 2 lascannons are fodder for any heldrake. 5 warriors in a Venom isnt exactly hard for a riptide to kill either.

I LOOOVVVEEE my riptides. But I'd say Helldrake gets the edge. I run my riptides without wasting points on markerlights and they do amazing things but the helldrake can do a lot of damage in only 2 turns.

Galanur wrote:


They do are annoying and being a flyer that can shoot 360º 20" flamer torrent can be a bit pain. Also only flyer with 12 all round and 5+ invul combined.

Drakes are 12/12/10 unless they got an awesome FAQ recently.

Wow this ended in a draw? -shocked-