To the barricades! (Civil Disobediance in D.C.)

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**Relapse**

Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

**Jihadin**

Since Kan jumped the gun. Your perception on what I said about you D is what you think I perceived from you D? In all our posts at each other over time you really think what I posted is what I really think on you D? Seriously? Think long and hard before you jump the gun like Kan did. I stand by my perceptions but I will acknowledge the other side to do I not.

Kan you forget on day one the of the Vets going into the parks that the Park Rangers didn't stop them due to being Vets themselves? I do believe I mention that somewhere in this multiple threads over the shut down.

**d-usa**

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

People build homes on the mall in DC?

**Jihadin**

Really D? What about a inn on Blue Ridge? Homes on federal lands? Been all over the news. You either don't know about it or ignoring the other issues?

**Kanluwen**

Jihadin wrote:
Since Kan jumped the gun. Your perception on what I said about you D is what you think I perceived from you D? In all our posts at each other over time you really think what I posted is what I really think on you D? Seriously? Think long and hard before you jump the gun like Kan did. I stand by my perceptions but I will acknowledge the other side to do I not.

Kan you forget on day one the of the Vets going into the parks that the Park Rangers didn't stop them due to being Vets themselves? I do believe I mention that somewhere in this multiple threads over the shut down.

Yet that did not stop Republicans from showing up and harassing them, now did it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

Please provide a link.

**d-usa**

Jihadin wrote:
Really D? What about a inn on Blue Ridge? Homes on federal lands? Been all over the news. You either don't know about it or ignoring the other issues?

So a politician in Washington DC yelled at one of the guys running security at the mall on day one of the protest because people got kicked out of the inn on Blue Ridge?

**Ouze**

Jihadin wrote:
You either don't know about it or ignoring the other issues?

We should assume good faith and presume the former, not the latter. Speaking for myself, I had not read a word about it until Relapse mentioned it on the other page.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/government/shutdown-forces-owners-leave-lake-mead-homes

**Relapse**

d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

People build homes on the mall in DC?

No, what I am talking about are the people that leased federal land and built homes in parks out here around Lake Mead and other places. These have been their only homes for decades and suddenly they were served with a 24 hour notice to get out with barricades and armed guards going up behind them as they were driven out.

**Jihadin**

D you playing "dumb? or Kan and you really have no idea on people being forced from their homes on federal lands or business being closed due to being on federal lands but not run by the federal government? If you both truly are uninformed or unwilling to see then I do believe I'm pretty much done with both you.

**daedalus-templarius**

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

They deserve to be harassed for carrying out orders given to them by superiors?

Jihadin wrote:
D you playing "dumb? or Kan and you really have no idea on people being forced from their homes on federal lands or business being closed due to being on federal lands but not run by the federal government? If you both truly are uninformed or unwilling to see then I do believe I'm pretty much done with both you.

I didn't know anything about it until you said something.

But what is supposed to be done? I mean, reopening the government would probably be a start.

**d-usa**

Relapse wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

People build homes on the mall in DC?

No, what I am talking about are the people that leased federal land and built homes in parks out here around Lake Mead and other places. These have been their only homes for decades and suddenly they were served with a 24 hour notice to get out with barricades and armed guards going up behind them as they were driven out.

But we were talking about politicians yelling at the mean park employees in DC because veterans. So that really doesn't have anything to do with that.

Although these people getting kicked out of their "homes" is a bit of a falsehood. They are vacation homes, so it's really no different than telling people to pack up their tents or RVs and to leave the park in my opinion.

Although Vanover couldn’t put an exact number on how many residents were actually living in their vacation homes at the time of the government’s closure, she wanted to make one thing clear: “They are all vacation homes and everybody who lives in them are considered visitors,” she said. “If anybody needs to gather their personal belongings, we’re not going to deny them access. They can go do that. They just can’t spend the nights there or have barbecues during the day.

“They need to get in and get out.”

And so the vacation homes will remain vacant until Congress can compromise and end the shutdown, which entered its fifth day on Saturday.

**Ouze**

daedalus-templarius wrote:
They deserve to be harassed for carrying out orders given to them by superiors?

Godwin in 3, 2, 1...

**Relapse**

Kanluwen wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Since Kan jumped the gun. Your perception on what I said about you D is what you think I perceived from you D? In all our posts at each other over time you really think what I posted is what I really think on you D? Seriously? Think long and hard before you jump the gun like Kan did. I stand by my perceptions but I will acknowledge the other side to do I not.

Kan you forget on day one the of the Vets going into the parks that the Park Rangers didn't stop them due to being Vets themselves? I do believe I mention that somewhere in this multiple threads over the shut down.

Yet that did not stop Republicans from showing up and harassing them, now did it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

Please provide a link.

Here ya go:

http://www.jrn.com/ktnv/news/Lake-Mead-Property-Owners-Forced-Out-Until-Gov-Shutdown-Ends-226557661.html

My sister is freinds with one of the women that was on the news about it. It's a couple in their mid 70's that were rousted out with a 24 hour notice from a home they had lived in for decades. They were so flustered, the husband left with just the clothes he was wearing. When they went back to get some clothes and other personal items, they were met with a barricade and armed guards.

**Kanluwen**

Relapse wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

People build homes on the mall in DC?

No, what I am talking about are the people that leased federal land and built homes in parks out here around Lake Mead and other places. These have been their only homes for decades and suddenly they were served with a 24 hour notice to get out with barricades and armed guards going up behind them as they were driven out.

The link that Ouze provided suggests that the people leaving Lake Mead "and other places" are people with vacation homes.

**Relapse**

d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

People build homes on the mall in DC?

No, what I am talking about are the people that leased federal land and built homes in parks out here around Lake Mead and other places. These have been their only homes for decades and suddenly they were served with a 24 hour notice to get out with barricades and armed guards going up behind them as they were driven out.

But we were talking about politicians yelling at the mean park employees in DC because veterans. So that really doesn't have anything to do with that.

Although these people getting kicked out of their "homes" is a bit of a falsehood. They are vacation homes, so it's really no different than telling people to pack up their tents or RVs and to leave the park in my opinion.

Although Vanover couldn’t put an exact number on how many residents were actually living in their vacation homes at the time of the government’s closure, she wanted to make one thing clear: “They are all vacation homes and everybody who lives in them are considered visitors,” she said. “If anybody needs to gather their personal belongings, we’re not going to deny them access. They can go do that. They just can’t spend the nights there or have barbecues during the day.

“They need to get in and get out.”

And so the vacation homes will remain vacant until Congress can compromise and end the shutdown, which entered its fifth day on Saturday.

It's not a vacation home my sister's friends were kicked out of, it was their home.

**Ouze**

Relapse wrote:
It's not a vacation home my sister's friends were kicked out of, it was their home.

Well then, your own source indicates they were violating the terms of their lease, then.

**Kanluwen**

That's bull and you know it.

Per the link you provided:

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

**d-usa**

Jihadin wrote:
D you playing "dumb? or Kan and you really have no idea on people being forced from their homes on federal lands or business being closed due to being on federal lands but not run by the federal government? If you both truly are uninformed or unwilling to see then I do believe I'm pretty much done with both you.

Let me paint a clear picture for you:

1) We were talking about a park employee getting yelled at by a politician on day 1 of the shutdown when the veterans arrived at the memorial.
2) The reply was that "those park rangers" should be getting yelled at because they kicked people out of their vacation homes.
3) These two events have absolutely nothing to do with each other, nothing at all.

**Relapse**

Ouze wrote:
Relapse wrote:
It's not a vacation home my sister's friends were kicked out of, it was their home.

Well then, your own source indicates they were violating the terms of their lease, then.

The lease says to have an alternate residence, not which one to make their home.
As a side note, the woman in the story is my sister's friend.

**d-usa**

Relapse wrote:
Ouze wrote:
Relapse wrote:
It's not a vacation home my sister's friends were kicked out of, it was their home.

Well then, your own source indicates they were violating the terms of their lease, then.

The lease says to have an alternate residence, not which one to make their home.
As a side note, the woman in the story is my sister's friend.

It's almost like you have to have an alternative residence for cases like this when you might not be able to take advantage of your vacation home inside a national park.
I sure hope the people in tents and RVs have alternative residences as well...

**Ouze**

Relapse wrote:
The lease says to have an alternate residence, not which one to make their home.
As a side note, the woman in the story is my sister's friend.

I'm still having a hard time seeing the overwhelming tragedy in the fact a handful of people will have to spend a few weeks away from their vacation home; for which they are already getting an incredible sweetheart deal of $200 a month rent. Not when I lived in NYC in a shoebox for $900 a month, and homelessness was plan B.

I mean, I'm sorry they got kicked out. I don't personally think it was necessary. But let's put it into perspective, it's not like the government forced them onto the street.

**Kanluwen**

Relapse wrote:
Ouze wrote:
Relapse wrote:
It's not a vacation home my sister's friends were kicked out of, it was their home.

Well then, your own source indicates they were violating the terms of their lease, then.

The lease says to have an alternate residence, not which one to make their home.

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

The consideration of the properties as "vacation homes" suggests otherwise.

**Jihadin**

People build homes on the mall in DC?

Let me be clear with you. You yourself involved yourself first into Relaspe posts did you not?

**Relapse**

Kanluwen wrote:
That's bull and you know it.

Per the link you provided:

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

I know I have a lot more knowledge of the story than you do considering what I put out here was told directly to my sister by the woman in the article. They have been friends for 20 years.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
Relapse wrote:
The lease says to have an alternate residence, not which one to make their home.
As a side note, the woman in the story is my sister's friend.

I'm still having a hard time seeing the overwhelming tragedy in the fact a handful of people will have to spend a few weeks away from their vacation home; for which they are already getting an incredible sweetheart deal of $200 a month rent. Not when I lived in NYC in a shoebox for $900 a month, and homelessness was plan B.

I mean, I'm sorry they got kicked out. I don't personally think it was necessary. But let's put it into perspective, it's not like the government forced them onto the street.

It pretty much did if their alternate residence is in another state and they use the "vacation homes" as their real permanent address.

**Kanluwen**

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
That's bull and you know it.

Per the link you provided:

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

I know I have a lot more knowledge of the story than you do considering what I put out here was told directly to my sister by the woman in the article. They have been friends for 20 years.

And?
YOU presented this story as though people are "being driven from their homes" with no place else to go. No, they're being asked to leave freaking vacation homes.

By the way, I'm starting to get the impression that the 'armed guards' were park rangers and not actually the jackbooted thugs you're trying to present.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Y'know I agree on that one, people should not be kicked out of their homes (or vacation homes) on 24-hours notice.

I can only hope that Congress remembers that next time they fail to fund the government and force these measures.

A 6-week continuing resolution to negociate would have prevented all of this.

**Kanluwen**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Y'know I agree on that one, people should not be kicked out of their homes (or vacation homes) on 24-hours notice.

I can only hope that Congress remembers that next time they fail to fund the government and force these measures.

A 6-week continuing resolution to negociate would have prevented all of this.

I have a very hard time believing that there actually was only 24 hours notice.

**Ouze**

Also, it sounds like maybe renting property from the government might not be such a hot idea, going forward. Although, again, $200 a month for lakefront property? I think I'd take that chance in a heartbeat.

**Relapse**

Kanluwen wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
That's bull and you know it.

Per the link you provided:

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

I know I have a lot more knowledge of the story than you do considering what I put out here was told directly to my sister by the woman in the article. They have been friends for 20 years.

And?
YOU presented this story as though people are "being driven from their homes" with no place else to go. No, they're being asked to leave freaking vacation homes.

By the way, I'm starting to get the impression that the 'armed guards' were park rangers and not actually the jackbooted thugs you're trying to present.

No way to penetrate that brain of yours with facts as presented first hand by people at the center of the story. Enjoy your ignorance on this, it's clearly hard earned.

**d-usa**

Jihadin wrote:
People build homes on the mall in DC?

Let me be clear with you. You yourself involved yourself first into Relaspe posts did you not?

Here is the post:

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:

with veterans as backdrops or to harass Park Rangers who are doing their jobs--.

When those park rangers are driving people from homes they have lived in for decades, located on park land leased from the government, they deserve harrasment.

We were talking about people using veterans as backdrops and pawns.
Then we were talking about those same people yelling at park employees in the mall of america making full use of their veteran backdrops.
Then someone tried to justify that politician yelling at that park ranger because somebody somewhere got kicked out of their vacation home.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Relapse wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
That's bull and you know it.

Per the link you provided:

The Lake Mead properties are considered vacation homes; one of the lease requirements to own a plot is people must have an alternative residence.

I know I have a lot more knowledge of the story than you do considering what I put out here was told directly to my sister by the woman in the article. They have been friends for 20 years.

And?
YOU presented this story as though people are "being driven from their homes" with no place else to go. No, they're being asked to leave freaking vacation homes.

By the way, I'm starting to get the impression that the 'armed guards' were park rangers and not actually the jackbooted thugs you're trying to present.

No way to penetrate that brain of yours with facts as presented first hand by people at the center of the story. Enjoy your ignorance on this, it's clearly hard earned.

Maybe people will learn to obey the spirit of their leases in the future instead of just having "proxy real residences" and using their non-primary vacation residence as their primary residence.