How come Chapter Tactics aren't worth any points?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Martel732**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Sounds like someone needs to get stomped by Sisters of Battle... maybe then you'll learn to respect massed bolters, Martel.

What does a sister cost compared to a space marine? They probably aren't paying for HTH capabilites that aren't part of the mass bolter scheme, so they are likely better at it than tac marines.

Also, but by *definition* massed bolters aren't as scary as massed pulse rifles or massed Eldar S6/7 shenanigans. Yeah, I might lose, but I'm a) not going to be intimidated by it and b) will probably cause a lot more damage to 60 tac marines in rhinos than 30 DA in WS.

**ZebioLizard2**

Martel732 wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
Sounds like someone needs to get stomped by Sisters of Battle... maybe then you'll learn to respect massed bolters, Martel.

What does a sister cost compared to a space marine? They probably aren't paying for HTH capabilites that aren't part of the mass bolter scheme, so they are likely better at it than tac marines.

Also, but by *definition* massed bolters aren't as scary as massed pulse rifles or massed Eldar S6/7 shenanigans. Yeah, I might lose, but I'm a) not going to be intimidated by it and b) will probably cause a lot more damage to 60 tac marines in rhinos than 30 DA in WS.

They are one point cheaper then a CSM marine.

Of course the irony is that they are weaker to massed bolter spam then even Marines of any caliber.

**ansacs**

Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:Using Reecius as a defense for C:SM is not something I would do for a couple of reasons:

1. He's a damn good player. He and Tony Kopach are literally the only two players to top 16 major GTs with 5E C:SM in 6th. That says a lot. Maybe you're as good as they are, but I highly doubt it.
2. Reecius almost always allies SW in his successful lists. I'm sure the RPs and GHs help a lot. Kopach relied on scouts and IG allies to win.
3. If marines were really that good (criminally underpriced, as you people are putting it?), everyone would be playing them and winning tournaments. "But everyone does play them!" Yeah, all the little kids and the guys at your local shops. They see less play than the typical top books and get worse results despite being played more than other books. You don't need to argue that Tau or Eldar or Daemons are strong or underpriced. The proof is there. But marines?

No arguement he is a very good player.

Who said underpriced. They are priced almost perfectly. They are the gold standard of unit pricing in my estimation. Actually the SM bikers are starting to rack up the tourney wins. We will have to wait 2-3 months more before we can see if the player distribution changes as SM is still very recent and people have just barely assembled any new purchases. The only reason eldar were kicking butt out of the gate is that the only viable army for most of 5th and 6th edition under their old codex (serpent spam) became their tournament winner build.

Martel732 wrote:What does a sister cost compared to a space marine? They probably aren't paying for HTH capabilites that aren't part of the mass bolter scheme, so they are likely better at it than tac marines.

Also, but by *definition* massed bolters aren't as scary as massed pulse rifles or massed Eldar S6/7 shenanigans. Yeah, I might lose, but I'm a) not going to be intimidated by it and b) will probably cause a lot more damage to 60 tac marines in rhinos than 30 DA in WS.

I am thinking you need to experience a banner of devastation RW list. That will teach you to respect the bolter.

Honestly the scary thing about TAC squads is not their bolters it is their resiliency combined with the semi respectable damage output of melta/plasma.

**Furyou Miko**

I said they were underpriced, but what I really meant was that Sisters are overpriced.

Sisters are paying for the exact same CC upgrades. Marines pay 2 points for +1 WS and S and ATSKNF.

**ansacs**

Don't forget +1 T. I guess CT and AoF probably cancel out.

**Martel732**

ansacs wrote:
Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:Using Reecius as a defense for C:SM is not something I would do for a couple of reasons:

1. He's a damn good player. He and Tony Kopach are literally the only two players to top 16 major GTs with 5E C:SM in 6th. That says a lot. Maybe you're as good as they are, but I highly doubt it.
2. Reecius almost always allies SW in his successful lists. I'm sure the RPs and GHs help a lot. Kopach relied on scouts and IG allies to win.
3. If marines were really that good (criminally underpriced, as you people are putting it?), everyone would be playing them and winning tournaments. "But everyone does play them!" Yeah, all the little kids and the guys at your local shops. They see less play than the typical top books and get worse results despite being played more than other books. You don't need to argue that Tau or Eldar or Daemons are strong or underpriced. The proof is there. But marines?

No arguement he is a very good player.

Who said underpriced. They are priced almost perfectly. They are the gold standard of unit pricing in my estimation. Actually the SM bikers are starting to rack up the tourney wins. We will have to wait 2-3 months more before we can see if the player distribution changes as SM is still very recent and people have just barely assembled any new purchases. The only reason eldar were kicking butt out of the gate is that the only viable army for most of 5th and 6th edition under their old codex (serpent spam) became their tournament winner build.

Martel732 wrote:What does a sister cost compared to a space marine? They probably aren't paying for HTH capabilites that aren't part of the mass bolter scheme, so they are likely better at it than tac marines.

Also, but by *definition* massed bolters aren't as scary as massed pulse rifles or massed Eldar S6/7 shenanigans. Yeah, I might lose, but I'm a) not going to be intimidated by it and b) will probably cause a lot more damage to 60 tac marines in rhinos than 30 DA in WS.

I am thinking you need to experience a banner of devastation RW list. That will teach you to respect the bolter.

Honestly the scary thing about TAC squads is not their bolters it is their resiliency combined with the semi respectable damage output of melta/plasma.

I've experienced it. It hurt, but I still don't think the bolter is a very impressive weapon at all. Bolters lack the perks of xeno weapons. Without the catapult rule, every shot had to go against 3+/5+ FNP BA ASM. They wound on 4's not 3's or 2's like Xeno weapons.

Besides, it's the banner that's nasty, not the bolter. If the Tau had the banner, it would even better, becaue then it would be boosting pulse rifles. The bottom line is there really isn't anything an meq list can to do to intimidate me in the face of Xeno shooting and Daemon shenanigans. RW bikers are way easier to kill than the screamer star or seer council, so I'm cool with them. I guess White Scars are pretty scary, but the rest are kinda meh.

**ansacs**

Fair enough. Though I still think that there are some TAC squad centric builds that will come to fruition. The white scars is just the most obvious power build.