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 Vain wrote:
O
Oh, nice rebuttal MM, and in a non rant inducing way could you give me a twenty word or less (or as long as you like) reasoning for the Not-X miniatures?
I am genuinely curious and would like to get a point of view from you.

Well, first, it infringes on copyright. If you sell (for example) a not-Predator, a not-Minbari ship, or a not-SST Warrior Bug, you are flat out ripping someone off. To me, that just ain't on.

Second, we prefer to do things legally and in the past have paid (what we regard as) staggering amounts of money for the right to do so. This is not chump-change, but serious five or six figure sums. So we do that, take the time and effort to make a good pitch and go through the approvals process - and then someone else comes along and (illegally) does not-miniatures, riding on the back of the property or (worse) the interest we have stirred up in the miniatures game.

It is intellectual theft, and a fair slap in the face of those companies who try to do the right thing. I don't think I have seen this crop up in RPGs, but the miniatures market seems rife with them.

Don't support such ranges. They aren't cool.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Well, first, it infringes on copyright. If you sell (for example) a not-Predator, a not-Minbari ship, or a not-SST Warrior Bug, you are flat out ripping someone off. To me, that just ain't on.

Second, we prefer to do things legally and in the past have paid (what we regard as) staggering amounts of money for the right to do so. This is not chump-change, but serious five or six figure sums. So we do that, take the time and effort to make a good pitch and go through the approvals process - and then someone else comes along and (illegally) does not-miniatures, riding on the back of the property or (worse) the interest we have stirred up in the miniatures game.

It is intellectual theft, and a fair slap in the face of those companies who try to do the right thing. I don't think I have seen this crop up in RPGs, but the miniatures market seems rife with them.

Don't support such ranges. They aren't cool.

Cheers for that Matt, it was the sort of thing I was looking for.

I get that your point is for the market overall, and you aren't limiting this purely to properties you have secured, but do you mind me asking how often this has this happened to Mongoose?
Obviously enough to leave a strong impression on you. I am not that familiar with the B5 or the other games in your range of games (outside of Dredd) so I wouldn't know a not-Mimbari ship if it bit me.

I could understand people wanting 28mm Preds, coz they are bad-arse and can be slotted into a fair amount of things, same with Warrior Bugs being used as 'Nids or even generic bad aliens, but I am genuinely surprised at the space/naval shenanigans.
I would have thought they would have been niche enough that you would have wanted the legit version or none at all. Again, if that was just an example to illustrate your point, that is cool. It just started my brain ticking over some things.

Second to Last question: With all the kickstarters around, how does this play out with "Homage" characters as stretch goals.
Like those in the Sedition Wars (Ripley/Newt, Vasquez, the guy from Dead Space and that Cylon lady or the Serenity Crew) or Zombicide where they have taken archetypical heroes that happen to look a lot like recognizable characters but not enough to be sued?

Last Question: Was the cool Judge Minty miniature Ok'd by Mongoose for the charity run they did?

Thanks for answering and feel free to tell me to get back in my box if I am getting to question-y

 chris_valera wrote:

I said I was getting a few things, but would steer clear of the main box, since all I want is the LE figs, and that the big rulebook isn't a draw for me, since, knowing Mongoose, teye'll invariably screw it up somehow.

Perhaps, but they've had the Dredd license for a decade and the JDMG is quite excellent. Placing the game into Warlord's far superior manufacturing and distribution chain speaks volumes to Mongoose's commitment to Dredd. You may be right about some things, but just not about this.

 chris_valera wrote:

it's also not just me that's complaining about the quality, so maybe it's you the one who should, sit back, relax, and change your tampon.
--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Hmm.

 Vain wrote:

I get that your point is for the market overall, and you aren't limiting this purely to properties you have secured, but do you mind me asking how often this has this happened to Mongoose?

I do not recall any for Dredd, but it has happened with just about everything else we have done - manufacturers were doing SST Warrior Bugs long before we came along, and there are a fair few people selling B5 and Trek ships without licence.

 Vain wrote:

I could understand people wanting 28mm Preds, coz they are bad-arse and can be slotted into a fair amount of things, same with Warrior Bugs being used as 'Nids or even generic bad aliens, but I am genuinely surprised at the space/naval shenanigans.

It is not a case of wanting them - of course people want them. The point is companies and individuals do not have licence to produce (much less sell) them.

 Vain wrote:

Second to Last question: With all the kickstarters around, how does this play out with "Homage" characters as stretch goals.
Like those in the Sedition Wars (Ripley/Newt, Vasquez, the guy from Dead Space and that Cylon lady or the Serenity Crew) or Zombicide where they have taken archetypical heroes that happen to look a lot like recognizable characters but not enough to be sued?

Without going into specific cases, I would suggest anyone going down that line gets a good lawyer and/or hopes the big film studios do not notice what is going on, as they do not have a sense of humour about this sort of thing.

At the end of the day a homage/an archetype is one thing, but that comes down to taking a broad concept and putting your own spin on it, not simply ripping things off. A good example would be Space Wolves (and GW is very, very good at this). They took Vikings and put the 40k spin on them - you can see recognisable Viking aspects within the Space Woofs, but they are unmistakabley Space Marines first. Or take Genestealers - there are recognisable bits from Aliens there, sure, but they are unmistakabley Tyranid first. They did not just copy something, they took a concept and ran with it, creating something new in the process (they used to describe it as putting 40k glasses on to look at something).

A far, far cry from the not-Predators and not-Warrior Bugs out there. You cannot (legally - or morally) take a Predator, re-arrange his head-dress a bit, give it a new but very similar name (like Hunter, perhaps), and then sell it. That goes double when you have other companies in the same market/industry willing to go the extra mile and work with the original creators of these properties.

 Vain wrote:

Last Question: Was the cool Judge Minty miniature Ok'd by Mongoose for the charity run they did?

Now this was a perfect example of how to do things properly. The guys behind Minty contacted us, we had no issue with it, and so passed the request onto the guys at 2000AD, who gave it their blessing as well. All official and above board.

Shows respect for the property being handled and beats being sued - and it took all of ten minutes on their part to get permission.

Now, if they had then gone on to do more Dredd miniatures and started selling them, well, Rebellion has good lawyers as well

Hey guys! Thank you so much for this thread, and for highlighting a starter product.

I don't know how it happened, but I wasn't even aware this game existed, let alone could be purchased in the US by way of FRP games.

I'm a huge Dredd fan, but being an American Judge Dredd fan, means there aren't a wealth of products available, nor much brand awareness. I'm really going to try selling my skirmish game group on this though. They've almost entirely fallen out with Malifaux, but many of them don't wanna make a leap in scope up to WM/H or WH40k.

Can someone answer a few questions?

1. In broad strokes, what is this rule system like? I see a lot of people saying glowing things, but without details as to why.

2. Where can I read more about the game, army-lists, etc?

3. Are rules legally available digitally anywhere? I just placed an order for the starter set, but wouldn't mind getting a head start.

Thanks folks!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

1. In broad strokes, what is this rule system like? I see a lot of people saying glowing things, but without details as to why.

2. Where can I read more about the game, army-lists, etc?

3. Are rules legally available digitally anywhere? I just placed an order for the starter set, but wouldn't mind getting a head start.

Thanks folks!

1. It's d10 based opposted tests. So you might make a shooting check to hit someone, adding your shooting trait (maybe +1), the other person rolls a d10 plus their agility score. Quite easy and smooth system and allows for lots of fun gang related special rules (like the ape gang's ability to jump all over the place)

2 and 3 - http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/judge-dredd/rulebook/judge-dredd-miniatures-game-rulebook.html
has the rules primer with basic rules, Street Judge and Street Gang lists.

MongooseMatt wrote:

 Vain wrote:
O
Oh, nice rebuttal MM, and in a non rant inducing way could you give me a twenty word or less (or as long as you like) reasoning for the Not-X miniatures?
I am genuinely curious and would like to get a point of view from you.

Well, first, it infringes on copyright.

Except it usually doesn't, otherwise it would be easier to prevent. Because 'not-miniatures' rely on generic attributes to make something an approximation of something else. People can make things that look like characters from TV and film because it is a few items of clothing and the specific posing that give the resemblance, you have Doctor Who looking figures but never any Daleks or Cybermen, because of the difference between unique and generic features. If someone were to do a not-judge Dredd it would have to be quite far off his image to infringe, but there's nothing stopping people making generic futuristic figures with knee pads. When you own something, you don't get to own all that resembles it, that leads to more problems than it solves for people's artistic freedoms. And much as you cite GW as example, they are the ones trying to claim ownership of all manner of things that resemble their stuff. Not an example to follow, nor something they are having a great deal of success at thankfully.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Except it usually doesn't, otherwise it would be easier to prevent. Because 'not-miniatures' rely on generic attributes to make something an approximation of something else. People can make things that look like characters from TV and film because it is a few items of clothing and the specific posing that give the resemblance, you have Doctor Who looking figures but never any Daleks or Cybermen, because of the difference between unique and generic features.

Sorry, I was not clear - I am talking specifically about things like Daleks and Cybermen (I cited Predators and Warrior Bugs in my examples). In other words, direct rip-offs not something based slightly on something else.

Quite cool I've just realised there are some Warmill buildings in amongst the JD stuff on the Warlord site, although shame there haven't been any tailor-made shop or eatery names (maybe Otto Sump's restaurant, or whatever the Soylent Green-style one was where the food was made from people)?

 Pacific wrote:
Quite cool I've just realised there are some Warmill buildings in amongst the JD stuff on the Warlord site, although shame there haven't been any tailor-made shop or eatery names (maybe Otto Sump's restaurant, or whatever the Soylent Green-style one was where the food was made from people)?

Give us a little time...

Great!

Maybe someone with a better memory than I could recommend some of the more iconic eating places from the series? Although, I'm guessing Mongoose must have some close contact with the 2000AD guys themselves for this!

Of the miniatures probably like the Angel gang the most, the Cursed Earth mutees are quite cool as well and also the Ape Gang. Awesome to see that there is a Sabbat miniature, I wonder if there will be any rules for Zombies and 'Judgement Day'? That was probably one of my favourite stories, will have to try and track down a Strontonium Dog miniature..

Foundry do some 2000AD stuff:

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/our-ranges/2000ad

 Pacific wrote:
Great!

Maybe someone with a better memory than I could recommend some of the more iconic eating places from the series? Although, I'm guessing Mongoose must have some close contact with the 2000AD guys themselves for this!

Of the miniatures probably like the Angel gang the most, the Cursed Earth mutees are quite cool as well and also the Ape Gang. Awesome to see that there is a Sabbat miniature, I wonder if there will be any rules for Zombies and 'Judgement Day'? That was probably one of my favourite stories, will have to try and track down a Strontonium Dog miniature..

The zombies are in the book, along with the Judgement day scenario. There is quite a few of the scenarios that can coincide with the comic.

Ah thanks for that Grot 6!

And, Caliginous thanks also had forgotten about that miniature range!

BrookeM will be pleased that there is already a miniature of Deputy Chief Judge Fish

Citizen, stop misspelling my name. If you do it one more time, it's off to the cubes with you.

Played a few more games and a few minor rule quibbles have appeared, nothing major however. It looks like the Mongoose/Warlord forums are dead however, so would be nice to know where we can ask rules queries without cluttering up news threads.

We have just released oodles of new Judge Dredd models, ready to join your force and take back the streets! You can find them all here;

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/judge-dredd.html?dir=desc&order=position

In the mix, we have the following new goodies for you;



Judge Dredd on Lawmaster
Mechanismo Double Pack and Singles (MkI & II)
Rico Dredd and the Judge Child
A new Street Judge Double Pack
Female Street Judge
Chopper, as the Midnight Surfer

We also have the Sky Surfers back in stock, along with the HS/1 Holocaust Suit - and, of course, the huge Judge Dredd Starter Set has just been released too!

So, a friend cherry picked some of FRP's stock for a Christmas gift, and got me a bunch of JD miniatures to go with my Starter set on the way. Hopefully that'll be enough to get started with.

Incidentally, is there anywhere I can read more about the game, fan reviews, popular units, anything? I'd like to learn as much as possible. I mean, even simple things, like how much terrain is recommended, etc? Table-size for average games?

Anyone with links to a fan site, would be appreciated as Google-Fu is failing me on this one.

As much terrain as possible! I recommend getting about ten sets of the "sci fi building" from Proxie Models as building some generic MC-1 looking buildings to start off with.

MongooseMatt wrote:
We have just released oodles of new Judge Dredd models, ready to join your force and take back the streets! You can find them all here;

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniatures/judge-dredd.html?dir=desc&order=position

In the mix, we have the following new goodies for you;



Judge Dredd on Lawmaster
Mechanismo Double Pack and Singles (MkI & II)
Rico Dredd and the Judge Child
A new Street Judge Double Pack
Female Street Judge
Chopper, as the Midnight Surfer

We also have the Sky Surfers back in stock, along with the HS/1 Holocaust Suit - and, of course, the huge Judge Dredd Starter Set has just been released too!

What color green is that, and where do you keep the painting guides for the figures?

It's a fairly lethal skirmish game, so you'll want lots of terrain. I think standard board size is 4 by 4, but this can get a bit small with lots of vehicles.

Popular units... Judges I guess? Zombies for zombie teams? Every gang is customizable, even if it's just the hero. It depends what you want. Then you can add in temporary or permanent mercenaries.

I don't know of any reviews as the book is more or less just out. Get the free rules and try it out yourself I guess?

Well, anyone who could share insights into what makes the mechanics unique/flavorful, etc... would be appreciated. I usually don't drop $200 on something i've read this little on, but the few bits I hear are glowing.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, a friend cherry picked some of FRP's stock for a Christmas gift, and got me a bunch of JD miniatures to go with my Starter set on the way. Hopefully that'll be enough to get started with.

Incidentally, is there anywhere I can read more about the game, fan reviews, popular units, anything? I'd like to learn as much as possible. I mean, even simple things, like how much terrain is recommended, etc? Table-size for average games?

Anyone with links to a fan site, would be appreciated as Google-Fu is failing me on this one.

Serious as a heart attack?

Read Dredd. Then the game makes sense on so many levels. You can use the stories for more missions after the main ones in the rulebook. OR use the ones in the rulebook as what the smaller fights build up to.
If you get the book, theres a whole lot of pain waiting inside of it. Its well structured that you can just up and start the game with just 1 squad, then add on from there.

Tables probibly best at a 4X4, but if your hard core, you can add on as much as a 4 X 8, or a 2X2 for those smaller scraps, such as if youd take a 3 juddge crew and kick in someones teeth and chase down a perp. Doug's got a good idea of using gak loads of civilians in there, they make for great fodder, and help with roaving cover.

Popular units? Check the gangs, and find what trips your fancy. Gorrilla gangs, mobsters, EastMeg, zombies, cultists, etc.... You can get pretty much anything.

If I was you, I would start small with a squad or two of whatever, get the rules download from the mongoose site, and get yourself some cardstock buildings from the numerous sites online.

Or, just start with a couple of boxes as large buildings, add in some smaller street scrap, as cover, and add in some broken toy trucks/ cars, rubble piles, and go for broke.

Dredd kicking in someones teeth is popular. 1 dredd and 2-3 other judges, vs a street gang of your choice. ( robots, gorrillas, the cultists, etc.....)

OR get a gang and hold your turf from other up and comers, as well as the Judges. The game plasy sweeter then I expected it would, and is fluid in that your fires/ couterfires make sense, and your not just sitting up there throwing guys on the table and putting them back away as fast as you set up.

Sites?

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/

http://www.matakishi.com/

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?p=448623

http://www.warfactory.co.uk/scenery/citytarmac.php

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.caliber/mc1maps.htm

http://combatzonechronicles.net/

http://www.germy.co.uk/czpart1.html

http://www.germy.co.uk/czpart2.html


for just a few.

It's a simple d10 mechanic as others have said, with a 6 or the highest of an opposed roll being a success for actions, and rolling a 10 plus modifiers being a successfully negated hit as it pings off your armour. It has fun additions like having to arrest perps, and ways to level up heroes with a variety of campaign, combat, vehicle and psi talents. Again, why not try the free rules found on the Mongoose Publishing website?

Zond wrote:
It's a simple d10 mechanic as others have said, with a 6 or the highest of an opposed roll being a success for actions, and rolling a 10 plus modifiers being a successfully negated hit as it pings off your armour. It has fun additions like having to arrest perps, and ways to level up heroes with a variety of campaign, combat, vehicle and psi talents. Again, why not try the free rules found on the Mongoose Publishing website?

Honestly the Arrest mechanic is one of my favorite mechanics in any game, ever. It's really puts the Judges on even footing and makes some scenarios very tricky.

Plus, the arrest action ensures that you can't just go in guns blazing straight away.

Have to be honest, Chopper doesn't look a lot like his character in the comics.. :(

Zond wrote:Played a few more games and a few minor rule quibbles have appeared, nothing major however. It looks like the Mongoose/Warlord forums are dead however, so would be nice to know where we can ask rules queries without cluttering up news threads.

The Warlord historical forums are fairly well populated. It's early days yet, perhaps if you start some posts over there it might help bump up the numbers?

BrookM wrote:Citizen, stop misspelling my name. If you do it one more time, it's off to the cubes with you.

*resists arrest, runs away and gets a hi-ex bullet in the back*

judgedoug wrote:

Zond wrote:
It's a simple d10 mechanic as others have said, with a 6 or the highest of an opposed roll being a success for actions, and rolling a 10 plus modifiers being a successfully negated hit as it pings off your armour. It has fun additions like having to arrest perps, and ways to level up heroes with a variety of campaign, combat, vehicle and psi talents. Again, why not try the free rules found on the Mongoose Publishing website?

Honestly the Arrest mechanic is one of my favorite mechanics in any game, ever. It's really puts the Judges on even footing and makes some scenarios very tricky.

That sounds awesome.. could anyone give a very quick run-down on how it works?

 Pacific wrote:

judgedoug wrote:
Honestly the Arrest mechanic is one of my favorite mechanics in any game, ever. It's really puts the Judges on even footing and makes some scenarios very tricky.

That sounds awesome.. could anyone give a very quick run-down on how it works?

I hope this is okay. It's copypaste from the free pdf. Matt@Mongoose lemme know if you want me to remove it.

Though they almost always possess superior firepower, judges should never consider themselves executioners, even in the face of the most determined resistance. Years are spent at the Academy of Law developing the voices of cadets, instilling within them absolute authority. Any ordinary citizen will immediately halt when so ordered by a judge and even hardened criminals will think twice before disobeying.

Any judge can, as a Special action, order any one Minion within 15” and in Line of Sight to surrender and prepare to be arrested. Both models must roll a dice and add their Will score. If the judge rolls higher, the criminal is removed from the table immediately – it has thrown away its weapons and surrendered to the Law. If the criminal rolled higher, the model need not take any more Will checks in order to evade arrest during the rest of this fight.

By the same token, the judges must at least try to arrest gang members instead of simply killing them. A judge may not make a melee or shooting attack against any model unless it has successfully resisted arrest by passing the Will check or has already made a melee or shooting attack itself.

This means that when judges first move into a firefight, they will begin by trying to arrest their opponents, unless their enemies decide to open fire first.

Heroes will automatically succeed in resisting arrest, but judges must still make the attempt. They do not have to arrest robots or zombies, and may open fire immediately.

Have to say, thank you guys. I appreciate any nuggets of knowledge you put down here, as apparently others do too.

So this line has been available for ages, but the current/new rule book really is the first time this has been a proper game? Well that makes me feel better about the dearth of information available.

Anyone wanna be a hero of the web a do a longer rules/book review/preview?

Anyway... I've got the free rules primer, and will probably test the game out. Meanwhile, out of respect, i'll be keeping my existing order. I'd rather, on faith, go in big on a game I want to see do well.

So I have the Starter (thus the hardback rules, and all else it contains), plus a mess of punks, judges, etc... coming, again, about $200USD worth, for now.

I'm good on terrain as between Dust, Deadzone's terrain sprues, and other odds and ends, i'm sure I could freaking cover up to a 6x4 space with multi-story terrain.

 Pacific wrote:
Have to be honest, Chopper doesn't look a lot like his character in the comics.. :(

It's spot on for his first appearance



Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Have to say, thank you guys. I appreciate any nuggets of knowledge you put down here, as apparently others do too.

So this line has been available for ages, but the current/new rule book really is the first time this has been a proper game? Well that makes me feel better about the dearth of information available.

There was an older game called Gangs of Mega City One, that was, honestly, only so-so. It pitted street gangs against street gangs, and the only time judges showed up was when a weaker gang could rat out a tougher gang, or give the judges a tip, and that player could play the judges to mess up the other guy's gang. It was built for campaign play so some gangs did get really powerful. The mechanics were a little awkward (couldn't activate unless near a hero, etc). That was 2005 or so. Some of the minis from the current range are from that older range (hence the disparity in some sculpt quality)

The JDMG is a total rewrite, new concept, and throws everything characterful about the JD universe into the mix so everyone can play whatever they want. The rules are tighter and went through a year of public playtesting and several revisions. The final hardcover is an excellent product and the partnership with Warlord means it's getting distributed and supporter far better than it could have. I've gotten a local group of about ten people into it and we're starting up a campaign on the 29th.