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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:02:27
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The only tip i can give to starting tyranids with this new codex is DONT!
Its worse than the previous one which even GW said was bad!
The only thing GW deserve for this is contempt and failiure from a sales point of view.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:24:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
Los Angeles, CA
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Such a negative post assumes you're playing purely competitive. If you're playing for fun and just with a few friends, this codex is fine and you can make it work. Settle down!
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6400 Pts
4300 Pts
3200 Pts
2600 Pts
3080 Pts 30k
2460 Pts AoS Chaos Grand Alliance
2680 Pts AoS Sylvaneth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:34:05
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Regular Dakkanaut
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On the contrary i never play tournaments, just for fun, but all my fun has gone with this hideous excuse for a codex.
I dont want an overpowered codex, i just want all units viable and competitve so i can build lists i want and have a chance at winning, not have to choose between the two.
I got into nids because i like melee side, i hate the models with guns and think they look stupid. This codex failed to fix the melee, or nerfed them and buffed guns (barely).
They made unupgraded haunagaunts 1 point cheaper (yay!) but nerfed and buffed in equal measure AT BEST (no reroll 1s on attack, stupid 50-50 chance of killing half the unit if out of synapse a single turn, + fleet) and made upgrades more expensive (same with termagants for those who like guns) meaning the net result is they are more expensive as well anyway.
They Failed to fix genestealers raveners or warriors, removed pod deployment option and failed to fix trygon tunnel option as well as nerfing it as well for good measure. Removed brb psychic powers, removed doom (instead of fixing it).
The one good thing was a reduction in carnifex cost, but seeing how hideously overpriced they were in 5th that only made them decent, not to mention if you have a brood instead of a single they eat themselves out of synapse like hormagaunts.
Total contempt is all this mess deserves.
The funny thing about all the people saying the complainers are complaining because they are only interested in competitive play is that the competitive side is fine, there will be 1 or 2 good mono builds, so thats fine, its all the fun/fluffy builds that people playing for fun like got nerfed when they were already in the gutter!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 13:39:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:41:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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I actually think Genestealers will find some use if the new dataslate is as rumoured. I'll be infiltrating them with a Broodlord and pinning whatever I can set my sights on!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 13:41:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:44:19
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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A list like this gives me nightmares....
Prime with regen.
Prime
Three full squads of zoans
Two squads of warriors
Four squads of hormaguants maxed out numbers. (120 models)
2 squads of 20 gargoyles.
Trygon prime with whatever
This is around 1850. Crap tons of synapse. Table is covered in models with move thru cover and jump infantry that WILL blind most your army on turn two. Terrifying.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:45:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
Los Angeles, CA
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I don't think any army in Warhammer 40k has a codex where every single unit his viable and competitive... so you must be pretty unhappy with things as a whole!
Telling a new player to not start nids at all because of the new codex is silly... if they like the army and how they look, they should play them regardless of it being a competitive codex or not.
There were definitely many uncalled for nerfs and I agree that many of them upset me, but I'm still going to play the game and enjoy the army I got.
If you're really playing it just for fun, then I don't see how ALL your fun has disappeared with this codex. You should easily be able to take on your opponents army if they are playing just for fun as well and not running a tourny competitive army!
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6400 Pts
4300 Pts
3200 Pts
2600 Pts
3080 Pts 30k
2460 Pts AoS Chaos Grand Alliance
2680 Pts AoS Sylvaneth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 13:55:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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What about using a Flying Hive Tyrat with The Ymgarl Factor?
You get a FMC that has a 2+ armour save.
The first turn you sit in cover (forests/anything) and combined with Venomthropes you get a 3+ cover save.
You can also get a FnP save easily.
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"I'm rather intrigued to discover that my opponent, who looks like a perfectly civilised person, is in fact mathematically capable" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:03:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine
Los Angeles, CA
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macexor wrote:What about using a Flying Hive Tyrat with The Ymgarl Factor?
You get a FMC that has a 2+ armour save.
The first turn you sit in cover (forests/anything) and combined with Venomthropes you get a 3+ cover save.
You can also get a FnP save easily.
I thought I heard that Ymgarl Factor was only during a certain phase and not perma
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6400 Pts
4300 Pts
3200 Pts
2600 Pts
3080 Pts 30k
2460 Pts AoS Chaos Grand Alliance
2680 Pts AoS Sylvaneth |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:06:55
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Gavin Thorpe
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It's a 2+ save that is only usable in the assault phase, and cannot be used 2 turns in a row. Against shooting it does nothing.
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WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:20:34
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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You know for the trygon tunnel you dont have to declare anymore right? Any infantry unit that came from reserve that turn can opt to use the tunnel, so basically the trygon provides an extra board edge. Might even work for outflankers as well(potentially deep strikers) so it provides options.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 14:23:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:32:17
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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macexor wrote:What about using a Flying Hive Tyrat with The Ymgarl Factor?
You get a FMC that has a 2+ armour save.
The first turn you sit in cover (forests/anything) and combined with Venomthropes you get a 3+ cover save.
You can also get a FnP save easily.
Posts like me make me wonder if youve even read the actual codex.
1. Ymgar factor is 40 points for upgrades that last for a single assault phase, and cant be used twice in a row.
2. FnP is a 1/6 chance on the psychic power chart. "Easily" is beyond a stretch.
If the Tyrant doesnt get it, the model using the power has to be within 12" to give it to the flyrant, which once they start swooping isnt going to be often. Automatically Appended Next Post: Leth wrote:You know for the trygon tunnel you dont have to declare anymore right? Any infantry unit that came from reserve that turn can opt to use the tunnel, so basically the trygon provides an extra board edge. Might even work for outflankers as well(potentially deep strikers) so it provides options.
The main issue is that the Trygon tunnel is still stupidly unreliable. If the Trygon doesnt come in before whatever you want to use the tunnel shows up, it is useless.
They could have easily fixed the Tunnel rule by letting Trygons use it like Spods used to be used. But that would require GW to give two gaks about its rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 14:34:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:39:41
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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How can you reliably spam psychic casters? 2 Tyrants and one group of zoantropes for instance will give your army a good chance to get the feel no pain power. If the tyrants are both eather flying or ground models you can give them both feel no pain. Seems funn to me. But that is lickly the only reliable p. power.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 14:55:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
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Leth wrote:You know for the trygon tunnel you dont have to declare anymore right? Any infantry unit that came from reserve that turn can opt to use the tunnel, so basically the trygon provides an extra board edge. Might even work for outflankers as well(potentially deep strikers) so it provides options.
Doesn't make up for the fact that the tunnel can realistcally only be used by one random unit, maybe two if you're lucky (and maybe even none). And you have to take an expensive model that takes up a valuable HS slot.
How can you reliably spam psychic casters? 2 Tyrants and one group of zoantropes for instance will give your army a good chance to get the feel no pain power. If the tyrants are both eather flying or ground models you can give them both feel no pain. Seems funn to me. But that is lickly the only reliable p. power
2 Tyrants only have a 5/9 chance of getting rolling any one power. So slightly better than a coinflip. A unit of zoeys only roll for one power so that's unreliable, and they can't shoot and use the power.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 15:04:45
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 15:36:22
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
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Regarding Crones- if you land it in cover, how do you handle LOS? Is it still just where the model is mounted? Sorry for the general question.
Enceladus wrote:I actually think Genestealers will find some use if the new dataslate is as rumoured. I'll be infiltrating them with a Broodlord and pinning whatever I can set my sights on!
What is rumored?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:04:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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RiTides wrote:Regarding Crones- if you land it in cover, how do you handle LOS? Is it still just where the model is mounted? Sorry for the general question.
Enceladus wrote:I actually think Genestealers will find some use if the new dataslate is as rumoured. I'll be infiltrating them with a Broodlord and pinning whatever I can set my sights on!
What is rumored?
Tyranid Vanguard. It's a dataslate that's supposed to have rules for a detachment of stealers and lictors.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:16:28
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Sneaky Lictor
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Okay Jy2 someone just pointed this post out to me and I was instantly interested in what you had to say on the subject, so here are my thoughts point by point...
- Tyranid Psychic Powers: You're right, they aren't BAD but they aren't that great. The problem is a lot of them are entirely situational and due to the random nature of 6th powers makes them problematic. With the old codex I could reliably get at least one power on my Tervigons that would be useful. Or the Swarmlord would absolutely get one or two useful powers. Now I am hoping that I wont roll crap from the list on my Flyrant because he only get's two powers, there is a good chance he will get something that isn't useful at all.
-Regeneration: More reliable and overall I like it a bit more than the old regeneration. Old regeneration had the potential for a ridiculous amount of 6's every turn, but over all this new regeneration IS better.
-Melee Weapons: All around worse. Most profiles had an attack subtracted to "compensate" for this new buff and now they don't stack anymore. Most of the weapons got worse like Scything Talons and Boneswords. Tails are...interesting but they do not benefit from Smash, much like HoW so they are underwhelming in their potential but at the same time aren't entirely worthless.
HQs:
I feel that this slot was forever doomed to Flyrant territory. Primes went up drastically in points with no return. Tervigons are worth it as troops but as an HQ they are terrible. OOE is still bad, I will still run him because I love him, but make no mistake he is bad. Deathleaper...has potential to play, but he will have to be backed with a Flyrant. Tyrand Guard are decent BUT why run them? You going to run a walking Tyrant JUST for them?
Troops:
The weak spot of the codex. Warriors are relegated to back field objective holders, perferably out of LOS. Genestealers are bad as always. Hormagaunts cost the same due to biomorph increases and were never that great to begin with. Termagants are decent enough. Tervigons, despite the nerfs, are still totally worth running as a troop choice. Rippers may as well not exist, as always. Troops is filled with poor choices with a couple of mediocre choices, pick your poison because none of them are really inspiring confidence.
Elites:
How the might have fallen here....Venomthropes escaped mostly unharmed and even better, hurray! I will fill my elites with 3x1 Squads of Venomthropes to cover the board in shroud. Lictors still bad. Zoanthropes are...I don't know, worse but still maybe worth running. They changed enough that I can't make a judgement call without giving them a try. At face value the AP2 and 24" range make them seem less appealing but they MIGHT be worthwhile. Hive Guard to me are dead, same reason I never ran a Tyrannofex. For how many points I am dropping into a unit to miss 50% of their shots with relatively low number of shots they are not worth the points. Pyrovores, need I say more? Haruspex just does not have the hitting power I wish he had. WS3 A3 makes him a dude instantly, he has the fighting power of a Mawloc and no one is taking the Mawloc because of his CC abilities.
I think that Venomthropes are going to define Tyranids this edition, the ability to field them and spread around the shrouded love and screen with masses of gaunts makes getting a 3+ cover save on our MCs so easy. The problem is that most of the current meta can ignore cover.
Fast:
Gargoyles, gargoyles, gargoyles. Raveners, still bad. Harpy, still bad. Crone...I want it to be good but everything is telling me it will under perform every game just because it can only fire two missiles a turn OR fire one missile and vector strike. It is just to weak for what it sets out to do. Spore Mines are great though! Death Leaper with some spore mines? Could be hilarious. Ohh I almost forgot Shrikes, Warriors with a worse armor save. They don't do a whole lot of damage, cost a lot, and die super easy.
Heavy: This is the winning slot for bugs. Cranifex are worthwhile again. Exocrine is decent, but again, BS3 means 50% miss rate but the pie plate is promising. Tyrannofex I covered sort of already, not that great. Mawloc is still bad. No, I don't care how much DFB got buffed he still scatters the full amount and the ideal use for him gives him a 16% chance of flat out dieing. No thank you, I will take something that is far more reliable than him. Consider that a Trygon is hitting at S6 AP2, can shoot, and doesn't have the risk of killing himself due to mishap. Speaking of which, Trygons and Primes are still alright I will play them. Biovores are sweet. Plant them with your backfield Warriors for synapse and fire away! I definitely will have to pick some up for this codex.
Overall I hate the codex. It is poorly written, poorly planned, and just as boring as the 5th codex. But you CAN have fun with it and dare I say it, even play semi-competitvely with it. Just don't expect to be winning any tournament with it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:23:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Dakka Veteran
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Has anyone else considered the possibility of outflanking two Tervigons deep into the enemy's backfield by purchasing and using the Hive Commander upgrade on those almost-mandatory 2x flyrants? For each time it is taken a troop choice can be given outflank. Those Tervigons can then spawn after arrival & the gaunts spawned can run once spawned for a quick spread through the backfield.
It would create a situation where the enemy is forced to either divert significant resources away from the primary front to remove them or accept that they problem will continue to grow turn by turn as more scoring units appear on the new front.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/12 16:24:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:24:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Fixture of Dakka
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DarthDiggler wrote:No, no, no. The new codex requires you to saturate the field with synapse of die. Not only will your feed bugs kill themselves half the time, the lurkers and hunters will become unresponsive and unpredictable.
This codex requires overlapping layers of synapse. I'm thinking a Tervigon for backfield synapse. Two units of Zooes for midfield synapse and 2 Flyrants for forward synapse is a start. You can replace some of those with other synapse like a deep striking a Trygon Prime for. flyrant and forward synapse or a Tyranid Prime as a midfield/backfield synapse holder.
Very well said. You NEED a lot of synapse for the new Tyranids. Hence why zoanthropes will play such an important role in the new book.
My "structure" for synapse is very similar to yours, only with 2x1 zoes in the backfield (and hiding) and the tervigon going up midfield, where his spawned gants can make make it to any objective more easily.
Razerous wrote:What's enough Troops; now that Tervigons are a tad more expensive (+20 termagaunts worth) and a little less awesome.
I'd go with a minimum of 3 at 1.5K-1750 and it'll go like this:
Tervigon
30x Termagants
10x Termagants
At 2K, I'd probably tack on either more gants or 1x3 tyranid warriors with a ranged gun.
Commander_Farsight wrote:I appreciate your effort to relay all of this info into a more simple format. So after reading your thoughts so far, I am confused because your opening statement was that the general thought is that they have gotten worse, but then you listed all of the things that make them good. So do you think that they are a good army and can be good competitively or not?
Yes, the general consensus of Tyranid players is that they don't think the new Tyranid dex is very good. As a matter of fact, most people think it is a regression rather than an improvement over the previous edition.
I'm just trying to point out that it isn't as bad as most would think. While many things in the new Tyranid codex has been nerfed, I am trying to show that there are still a lot of positives in the new book that you can use to make not only a viable army, but one that can be competitive as well. Basically, I am trying to point out that the sky isn't falling for the new bugs. There's still light at the end of the tunnel.
DarthDiggler wrote:Tyranids have the tools to deal with all the top units. I'm just not sure how to get them all in and how to get them in position to work right now.
Horror psychic power just wrecks Riptides. They check on leadership 7 or get pinned.
Exocrine is great against Broadsides and Centurions.
Poisoned little bugs, like hormagants, kill Wraithknights fast.
The bugs have lots of haywire shooting which will down Wave Serpents. They also have a str 8 vector strike which will down all flyers and wave serpents.
The shadow in the warp plays havoc on daemon armies relying on psychic powers. So Screamerstar and flying circus. Death leaped also adds to this by effectively eliminating one Psyker from using powers at least when shadows is nearby.
The tools to deal with all the current meta threats is in the book. I'm just grasping at ghosts trying to figure out how to get it all in and synergizes it right now.
Don't bother. You won't be able to do so and still have a competitive army. Instead, all you'd end up with is a toolbox army which has tools for everything but can't do anything well. Just like last edition, tyranids won't be top-tier because they just can't handle everything as well as the 3 top armies can - Tau, Eldar and Necrons. However, they can and will give most armies a lot of problems with their playstyle. Just go for a certain playstyle. You're going to have to specialize somewhat (for example, very fast MTO tyranids, monster-spam bugs or horde bugs with lots of synapse) but by doing so, you're going to be the proverbial monkey wrench to a lot of armies out there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:25:38
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Dakka Veteran
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Psst. Jy2 look above at my post since it'll probably get missed by you if you only look from your most recent post onwards.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:40:00
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Fixture of Dakka
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warpspider89 wrote:Has anyone else considered the possibility of outflanking two Tervigons deep into the enemy's backfield by purchasing and using the Hive Commander upgrade on those almost-mandatory 2x flyrants? For each time it is taken a troop choice can be given outflank. Those Tervigons can then spawn after arrival & the gaunts spawned can run once spawned for a quick spread through the backfield.
It would create a situation where the enemy is forced to either divert significant resources away from the primary front to remove them or accept that they problem will continue to grow turn by turn as more scoring units appear on the new front.
I wouldn't go with more than 1 outflanking tervigon. There are risks involved with outflanking as well:
1. Cannot control which side to come in from. 1/3 of the time will come in on the wrong flank.
2. No way to manipulate reserves. There's a chance you may come in on Turns 3 or later.
3. You need a durable synapse creature to anchor your backfield or midfield. I prefer to use the tervigon for this purpose as he can more easily produce gants that can reach the other objectives. He would also be more in range to use his psychic buffs - Dominion, Catalyst, Onslaught - than if he were to outflank.
4. Having 2 tervigons with 60 gants and 2 Hive Commanders can get very expensive. I'm talking about 670-pts expensive without any other upgrades on those units.
5. You'll have problems against fast armies who can quickly redeploy their units/troops....especially armies like necrons and eldar.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:49:40
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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Played a proxy game last night with some mixed results, but it was pretty fun at least.
HQ: 460
Brainleech Flyrant
Brainleech Flyrant
Troops: 415
Warriors x3 - Barbed Strangler
Termagant x30
Tervigon
Elite: 135
Venomthrope x1
Venomthrope x1
Venomthrope x1
Fast: 155
Crone
Heavy: 360
Biovore x3
Biovore x3
Biovorex3
Forts: 75
Spawning pool - Sky shield landing pad
- 1600
(earlier I put 1500 by instinct, we did 1600)
It was a blast (pun intended).
Crone was lackluster in this game and might be replaced with harpy if I think Flyrants can handle anti air duty. The fact that he can only fire 1 missile after vectoring makes him meh for anti air. The harpy though could through down a mine and help with anti vehicle, which I need.
Don't have much to take on higher toughness units, but it's a work in progress.
Biovores and 2 venoms and the warriors sat their butts on the skyshield to claim their 2+cover and 4++.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 16:55:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:51:38
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Missionary On A Mission
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Only one person has suggested a swarm list. Mass toxic hormies with MC support and warrior synapse is not a good idea?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:51:57
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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Swara wrote:
Forts: 75
Spawning pool - Sky shield landing pad
my word man! this is brilliant i may just blow the dust off my sky shield landing pad...
Leth wrote:You know for the trygon tunnel you dont have to declare anymore right? Any infantry unit that came from reserve that turn can opt to use the tunnel, so basically the trygon provides an extra board edge. Might even work for outflankers as well(potentially deep strikers) so it provides options.
any UNIT can use trygon tunnel now, so a brood of carnifexs could come up, or even tervigons! but without an FAQ allowing units to be held in reserves this is unreliable and could fail horribly.
so couple things in reading, the whole gargoly blind.. is a single attack made by the model instead of his normal attacks, and its only poison 6+.. str3 >_> would toxic sacs make it poison 4+? Also im a little bummed they dropped the auto wounds on a roll of 6 to hit.
im finding alot of the little cool rules to be gone :( but some promising stuff to. Not to thrilled atm but working on getting there. I went nids back in 5th for the awesome melee power and sold my necrons cause i dont like shooty armys. So gonna need some help finding competitive lists to hold there own against taudar armys i have to fight. Please GW hear our prayers! FAQ to make trygon tunnels work right! lol
anyone else find the math problems in spore mines? says you can combine mines to generate a large blast, but the largest cluster you can make is 6.. so first 1 blast is at 4, then for each extra spore adds +1, for a max of 9... so how does one get to the max 10 allowed in the book?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 16:55:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:54:22
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I am testing my old nid list tonight
2 standard flyrants, devourers etc.
3 hapies
3 infiltrate or outflank stealers
and now 3 mawlocs
Now all are cheaper I can fit more in but not sure what, might take some elites but not sure what, any suggestions?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 16:57:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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im starting to think crons are gonna suck... with only being able to fire 2 weapons you have to pick... 2 missles... vector strike/1 missle... vector strick/flame... hmm harpys might be better off.
any other play tests with the new fliers, Id love to hear your resluts before i finish building mine :-p
Thanks to Swara i have hope! lol sky sheild pad here i come
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 17:03:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Indiana
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My point on the tunnel is that it gives you OPTIONS. It doesnt have to be crazy powerful, it doesnt even have to be a rule for the model to really impact its value. It may not even come up often, but it gives you potential options.
Have a trygon pop up right next to their objective or in the middle of their deployment zone. Now your reserve units have the OPTION of exiting there. Now do you plan around it? Nope, you are not taking the trygon for the tunnel but it provides potential.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 17:08:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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Leth wrote:My point on the tunnel is that it gives you OPTIONS. It doesnt have to be crazy powerful, it doesnt even have to be a rule for the model to really impact its value. It may not even come up often, but it gives you potential options.
Have a trygon pop up right next to their objective or in the middle of their deployment zone. Now your reserve units have the OPTION of exiting there. Now do you plan around it? Nope, you are not taking the trygon for the tunnel but it provides potential.
what if all your reserve models come on turn 2.. then nothing can use the tunnel. Or what if your trygon fails to come in turn 2, that means nothing can use the tunnel till turn 4. Even if a unit gets to use the tunnel its only 1 unit per turn, starting earliest turn 3. GW realllly doesnt want you to cross the board anymore :-p
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 17:08:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Tunneling Trygon
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Formosa wrote:I am testing my old nid list tonight
2 standard flyrants, devourers etc.
3 hapies
3 infiltrate or outflank stealers
and now 3 mawlocs
Now all are cheaper I can fit more in but not sure what, might take some elites but not sure what, any suggestions?
VENOMTHROPES.
*Ahem, sorry* so yeah, venomthrope. Give cover to stuff, and life is good. Like Harpies. 4+ save blues? Put them in area terrain with a Venomthrope nearby.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 17:09:26
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Just played my first game with the new codex.
Brought a pretty extreme list.
2x Flyrant
2x Zoey
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
2x Zoeys (singular synapse relay point)
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
3 Warriors w Barb
2x Crone
1x Harpy
2x Dakkafex Brood
2x Mawloc
************************
Opponent played Taudar on a board with nothing much for terrain the center
His approximate list.
Buffcommander
Ethereal
Riptide (Ion w/skyfire & interceptor)
6 FW
6 FW
3 missilesides (3-4? missile drones)
3 missilesides (3-4? missile drones)
3 railsides (3-4? missile drones)
ADL
Farseer
3 jetbike
Wraithknight
Lost the game narrowly. I had to go 2nd. Middle of board only had area terrain. Didn't roll any FnP. 2nd Mawloc didn't come in on Turn 2. Both Mawlocs scattered and didn't kill anything. Worse of all, my healthy Warlord Flyrant got ID'd by the WK's gun on Turn 4-___-. He was left with 1.5 squads of broadsides, a wraithknight and a troop that wasn't able to score, I lost all my MCs except for one dakkafex, but had the rest alive to score/deny stuffs.
That being said while I wouldn't normally run 5 FMCs, I was pleasantly surprised at how the army performed, somehow it worked way better than it looked on paper. At the end of the day, he was stuck in his corner and wasn't able to advance. My opponent had read the Tyranid Codex and have a couple games against them, so on the table, he actually had more experience in facing/using Tyranids than me.
MVP: Venomthrope; 6" Shrouded for 45 pts is a boss. It screwed up his target priority. It isn't actually worth an entire broadsides firepower to take out a 2/3++ cover venom, even with ignore cover, that's alot of overkill firepower for a T4 2W model.
Biggest disappointment: Mawlocs scattering and becoming a sitting duck. However, if either of them had hit, it would have been able to nearly wipe an entire squad of broadsides, so -___-???. I am sorely tempted to swap over to dual Exocrines, for more board presence and reliable AP2 fire options.
Interesting:
1)I had so many MCs/threats on the board, that the Taudar was severely pressed to find a window to even consider hitting my measly 10 termagants, who were either LoS, or had 2-4++ cover, i'm now actually open to the idea that 3-6 10 termagants/1 warrior brood are actually an option if you have enough Synapse source
2)Tyranid powers are pretty decent, though it relies on some finesse on when to use them. Dominion allowed me to screw up his Farseer's spells, and double Onslaught allowed both Flyrants to swiftly flank and annihilate a broadside squad very early on.
3) Shadow in the Warp's -3ld is incredible against Psykers making any form of ld tests :O
4) The Crone's S8 Vector was actually useful against T4 models and having an alternative option with dealing with a WK, it also made me consider adding Gargoyles to my list.
5) If he decided to increase his scoring ability, with more bikes/firewarriors/kroot/devilfishes, I strongly believe I would've won as his firepower would have to be decreased significantly to do so.
6) The mawloc is a very high risk/high reward unit that I'm now not fully in favor of. Tyranid have both decent shooting and assault, its strength also lies on its ability to flood a board with high threats and presence. I personally feel that the Mawloc reduces some of that, by not being on the board, relying to hit with its burrow ability and not able to assault til Turn 3 earliest. Infact, I would rather bring a Trygon Prime or even Haruspex ( yeah i know) for greater stability and presence.
7) The high number of MCs, actually made Warriors viable especially if they do benefit from Shrouded, any unit S8 or greater weaponry shooting at them is one that is not shooting at your MCs, and they provide valuable Synapse as well.
Finally, 8) After receiving the fiery barrage from this Taudar list and being both very unlucky and inexperienced, I am confident of facing any list with an ounce lesser long range firepower or had better terrain placement. I was neutral-pessimist upon reading the codex and felt disheartened reading the interwebz, but I must say while it is NOT a clearly OP and easy to use (point and shoot) codex, it to me, is looking at least as a pretty solid codex that plays very differently from the old one.
I am now strongly encouraged to try my Tyranids out a lot more. Oh, if you want to play Tyranids, prepare to lose a lot of models anyway
p.s. not sure if you guys will comment about markerlights for cover ignore, but if he did bring MLs, I was gonna shoot them first thing and that would weaken his overall firepower significantly. Currently, without markerlights he was still gonna kill any unit he targetted at most of the time, given the amount of dice I had to roll from each squad/unit-_____-;
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 17:31:37
for the emperor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 17:16:55
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids
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Jervis Johnson
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Deshkar wrote:Just played my first game with the new codex.
Brought a pretty extreme list.
Pretty extreme indeed, 4 Flyrants, 4 elites, 3 fa, 3 hs and 0 troops at all. As far as the Tau list is concerned it's markedly mid-tier as far as Tau power levels go. It almost tried to give you a free win by bringing so many Broadsides against two Mawlocs, when most tournament players dont use any Broadsides at all, or at most use one unit of three.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/12 17:19:35
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