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1.5 K for me, which really equals 3-5th ed 2-2.5k

The thought of more than 2k fills me with dread using these rules.

I am playing in a 4v4 apoc game today with 4k per playing. And I think we might see one or two super heavyset (baneblade and a knight). But there will be 7 battle wagons and 5 wraithknights on the other side. It shall be glorious.


Our shop plays 2k now for standard games but i think large games are more interesting and harder to "throw". But when the game gets over 2.5 there should be apoc or some theme to it. The base missions and deployments don't always mesh with the scaling of the game (apoc objective system is almost to simple though)

 jasper76 wrote:
Do you prefer 40k games at 3K+, or 3K- ?

I used to play 2500 pts games, but don't do it anymore. Just not worth it.

500-600 pts is a really fun size, but most players I know just won't go that low, so I guess my sweet spot would be around 800-1000 pts.

That's the way the game was designed : small skirmishes, 1 or 2 vehicles max. If I wanted to play 3+k games, I would just play Epic.

I find big games to be boring and make the whole system collapse under its own weight. There's no room left on the battlefield and each turn just takes forever, especially against hordes.

I have other hobbies, 40k is just one of them. I have to make choices. Fielding enough Sisters of Battle to play 4+ hours games is not worth it. It's just a waste of time and money.

This whole thread just makes me wish they would do an updated version of Epic.

With the current technology, I'm sure new models would look fantastic and be able to cover a much wider range of Warhammer 40k (seriously, go look up the Horus Heresy Epic thread in the painting showcase!)

Alas...

EDIT: here's a link to the thread for anyone interested

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576678.page

I really enjoy 3k+, NON-apoc games. When there's so many models that one bad roll doesn't mean you lose the game, the game can really swing back and forth. Strategy takes on a grand scale of overall board control and force distribution, rather than "well I killed those two models, I win". Smaller games just feel like the strategy stops at target acquisition - did you not waste shots at pointless things? Then you did fine.


Apoc is fun, but there's a lot that unbalances it in this edition.

Yeah, I agree that for the Apocolypse feel, Epic works much better, with less time having to be dedicated. It's so much more fun than the 28mm Apocolypse gun-lines crammed onto either side of a table.

This does not look like much fun:



This, however, looks absolutely awesome, and can be played on the same sized table:

Well, you're right, but it looks like the 40K apoc game depicted there should be on a table that's much much deeper/wider, so that there can actually be some depth to the battle. While that puts a lot of things out of range initially, it sets up for a lot of dramatic flank marches, deep strikes etc.

That's true, but it represents most of the pictures of Apocolypse games I've seen, at least.

How long does a 3k game take to play?

As said above that Apoc game is on a normal 6x4 and im sure thats more than 3k a side...

Needs bigger table..

I feel anything less than 2K is not enough.

I actually find 500-800pts a uniquely fun experience.

Of course at 1,000pts, taking Codex inflation into account, you are basically playing what used to be 2,000pt tournament armies from 2nd edition, when 10 basic Tactical marines were 300pts.

I spose the other reason i dont like smaller games is i have time to spare when i play, and failing a critical roll when you have very limited models... that sucks and yeah i dont want to spend 45 mins to have 1 roll wreck a game, more models gives more oppertunity. Also when you have as many shiny toys as i do, its nice to play with them.

That is true. I find an even mix of small and normal games makes for a nice change of pace that keeps things from stagnating. Remember that small-valued games need special rules just like overly-large ones. That keeps one dice roll from making or breaking the small games, as many of the overly-powerful units/models are not allowed in the small format.

I can't imagine one roll making or breaking the game in a small game, because the environment surrounding the dice rolls is different.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I agree that for the Apocolypse feel, Epic works much better, with less time having to be dedicated. It's so much more fun than the 28mm Apocolypse gun-lines crammed onto either side of a table.

This does not look like much fun:



This, however, looks absolutely awesome, and can be played on the same sized table:

You and I have different definitions of fun sir. That first table looks like an awesome game is about to unfold. It does seem like they're packed a bit tight though, and probably need a little more table space.

Games like Apocolypse-level just seem like an exercise in watching dice rolling results, range-measuring, and model removal.

It would be like playing a high-points level game of Battlefleet Gothic, where each side just sets their ships up in a line 15-20 cm from each other, and just starts shooting.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I agree that for the Apocolypse feel, Epic works much better, with less time having to be dedicated. It's so much more fun than the 28mm Apocolypse gun-lines crammed onto either side of a table.

This does not look like much fun:



This, however, looks absolutely awesome, and can be played on the same sized table:

I played 4500 double FOC (no ecalation/APOC)against Orks on an 8x4 and had a grand time. Pretty much had everything on the table from the start of the game except for 1 flyer, and 12 jetbikes. Set up the meat grinder!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I agree that for the Apocolypse feel, Epic works much better, with less time having to be dedicated. It's so much more fun than the 28mm Apocolypse gun-lines crammed onto either side of a table.

I totally agree. Apoc games seem to follow two natural tendencies :

- Field one superheavy for each 20 Imperial Guards...

- Field proper armies (on a table that is usually way too small) and then throw pizzas everywhere to remove enough minis so you can actually play...


Actually, I already consider 6x4 tables to be too small for 2k games, especially if orks/nids/guards are involved.

Depending on the build, that could possibly the case, lol.

Yeah, whenever I see shots of Apoc games I can't help but think "gee, I wish Epic were still around".

The thought "gee, I really want to spend several hundred dollars/hours painting models so I can play a giant game of meat grinder" couldn't be further from my mind

I like the idea of playing 3k+ on occasion, but not as standard. At that points level, things start becoming rather silly and battles take a very long time so it isn't practical to play them all of the times.

Personally, I prefer to play games in the 1500-2000pts region because things are more manageable at that level and you can get a couple of games in an evening, so, for me, they're more enjoyable.

The way GW is reducing the points cost of everything you will soon be able to field 3k worth of guys in a 2k army... you'll be playing 3k anyways in 5 years.

For me, 40k is best played at 600-800 points, where the armies are realistically affordable, and the game manages to balance itself really quite well. In 600 points, you can take many of the cheese units or deathstars, but they will be such a large portion of the army that this can be a really bad idea.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would play Apocalypse games.

All the time spend lovingly assembling, converting, and painting your models... And now you're just scooping them off the board by the bucketful 'cause you got hit by a massive template...

Not my kind of fun.

But each to his own, of course. Personally I prefer games around the 500 - 750 point mark, using Combat Patrol rules as a lose guideline for unit restrictions.

I like games of all different sizes. Anywhere from 200 pts kill team, to 2500 pts. 2500 is the biggest I've played in this edition. My last game was that size and took 4.5 hours. WAS HEAPS OF FUN! More units = more tactical options. Didn't feel like a chore at all. At the end of it I was kinda wishing it wasn't over. I could play 40k all day.

 Kavish wrote:
I like games of all different sizes. Anywhere from 200 pts kill team, to 2500 pts. 2500 is the biggest I've played in this edition. My last game was that size and took 4.5 hours. WAS HEAPS OF FUN! More units = more tactical options. Didn't feel like a chore at all. At the end of it I was kinda wishing it wasn't over. I could play 40k all day.

I wish I could find more people like you around here. having as many points of eldar as I do makes it difficult to find someone to field them all against.

I love huge games. Watching all the stuff blow up is very fun, especially once you get down near the bottom of turn 5 and you look just how little is left on the table relative to how much was crammed on there a few hours ago. I guess I just never thought 40k was supposed to be a competitive game, so I never really worried about how balanced things were.

This does make me kind of sad that I have never seen Epic played. I'd probably enjoy it a lot, although giant models are a lot of why I enjoy seeing big 40k battles. The idea "these are all titans fighting" gets kind of ruined to me when they're all an inch tall.

Yeah. Titans the size of guardians make me sad. They just don't feel like they deserve the name titan. However a 2.5' Phantom titan towering over everything on the board is definitely a titan!

The titans were a lot bigger than that dude, a Phantom was roughly the size of a Wraithlord, with 5mm high infantry milling around its feet, the Imperator was bigger than the new Imperial Knight if my memory isn't too distorted.