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Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Please clarify. Are you advocating that you ignore rules? Sounds like you are running well astray from RAW.
I guess when I wrote "obviously being sarcastic" that I wasn't being clear enough.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Might have missed it but if not then heres one for the FAQ:
How does RP interact with FNP when unsaved wounds spill over/reallocated to an character?
(i.e. can a unit potentially receive the benefits of armour/invuln saves and RP and then FNP spread between multiple models?)
Theoretical example:
Conclave of the burning one formation receives 12 ap2 wounds.
The Ctan LO,S 7 wounds to the teks who RP 2, sustain 4 wounds leaving 1 wound.
Can the ctan now attempt FNP for each of these wounds?
What if the allocation order was reversed (resulting in fnp then RP).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 21:12:43
Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Please clarify. Are you advocating that you ignore rules? Sounds like you are running well astray from RAW.
I guess when I wrote "obviously being sarcastic" that I wasn't being clear enough.
If there is a rule that puts the Praetorian on the NS are you ignoring it, yes or no?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dominuschao wrote: Might have missed it but if not then heres one for the FAQ:
How does RP interact with FNP when unsaved wounds spill over/reallocated to an character?
(i.e. can a unit potentially receive the benefits of armour/invuln saves and RP and then FNP spread between multiple models?)
Theoretical example:
Conclave of the burning one formation receives 12 ap2 wounds.
The Ctan LO,S 7 wounds to the teks who RP 2, sustain 4 wounds leaving 1 wound.
Can the ctan now attempt FNP for each of these wounds?
What if the allocation order was reversed (resulting in fnp then RP).
No model in that formation has both, and the rules for reanimation protocol are clear that if you did have both then you have to choose one or the other.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 21:14:30
Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Please clarify. Are you advocating that you ignore rules? Sounds like you are running well astray from RAW.
Let's try to keep this constructive, please - if a user posts they are obviously being sarcastic, there's no need for us to have a serious discussion on the matter.
As always, if there are any issues please hit the yellow triangle rather than responding in-thread - thanks.
Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Please clarify. Are you advocating that you ignore rules? Sounds like you are running well astray from RAW.
I guess when I wrote "obviously being sarcastic" that I wasn't being clear enough.
If there is a rule that puts the Praetorian on the NS are you ignoring it, yes or no?
This is the core issue. I see no rule overriding the basic restriction Transports have on allowing Jump Infantry to be embarked. I don't believe the Dedicated Transport rules have wording sufficient to override the general Transport rules. The Night Scythe has no wording whatsoever on the matter, so this isn't a Codex versus BRB issue. If a Transport says it can hold 15 models, this typically refers to 15 Infantry (excepting Jump and Jet Pack varieties) models. The Dedicated Trasport rules add a further restriction that only the purchasing unit can be deployed inside at game start. I see no wording overriding the Jump/Jet Pack restriction.
I'm not ignoring a rule saying Jump Infantry can be embarked upon a Transport because there is no rule saying Jump Infantry can be embarked upon a Transport.
If you except the wording in the Dedicated Transport section saying that the only restriction is that only the purchasing unit can be deployed inside as a way of overriding the unit type restriction... then why can't you use the same wording to override other restrictions... such as the unit size restriction? You have yet to sufficiently answer this. You can't cherry pick restrictions to override. All or nothing. Which was my sarcastic point. Your position necessarily results in 30 man Ork units in Trukks... which is obviously ludicrous.
The most likely scenario is that GW made a mistake and meant to include wording saying the Night Scythe could transport Jump Infantry... which is why we need an FAQ/Errata.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Please clarify. Are you advocating that you ignore rules? Sounds like you are running well astray from RAW.
I guess when I wrote "obviously being sarcastic" that I wasn't being clear enough.
If there is a rule that puts the Praetorian on the NS are you ignoring it, yes or no?
This is the core issue. I see no rule overriding the basic restriction Transports have on allowing Jump Infantry to be embarked. I don't believe the Dedicated Transport rules have wording sufficient to override the general Transport rules. The Night Scythe has no wording whatsoever on the matter, so this isn't a Codex versus BRB issue. If a Transport says it can hold 15 models, this typically refers to 15 Infantry (excepting Jump and Jet Pack varieties) models. The Dedicated Trasport rules add a further restriction that only the purchasing unit can be deployed inside at game start. I see no wording overriding the Jump/Jet Pack restriction.
I'm not ignoring a rule saying Jump Infantry can be embarked upon a Transport because there is no rule saying Jump Infantry can be embarked upon a Transport.
If you except the wording in the Dedicated Transport section saying that the only restriction is that only the purchasing unit can be deployed inside as a way of overriding the unit type restriction... then why can't you use the same wording to override other restrictions... such as the unit size restriction? You have yet to sufficiently answer this. You can't cherry pick restrictions to override. All or nothing. Which was my sarcastic point. Your position necessarily results in 30 man Ork units in Trukks... which is obviously ludicrous.
The most likely scenario is that GW made a mistake and meant to include wording saying the Night Scythe could transport Jump Infantry... which is why we need an FAQ/Errata.
These are the rules in question.
Spoiler:
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can
only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that
have joined it). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly
Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as
explained in the vehicle’s entry.
Spoiler:
Combined Reserve Units
During deployment, when deciding which units are kept as Reserves, you must specify if
any of the Independent Characters in Reserve are joining a unit, in which case they must
arrive together. Similarly, you must specify if any units in Reserve are embarked upon
any Transport vehicles in Reserve, in which case they will arrive together. In either case,
when making a Reserve Roll (see below) for a combined unit, roll a single dice for the
unit and/or its Independent Character/Transport vehicle.
My argument follows strict RAW - a Praetorian comes already embarked on the NS in deployment and can use its dedicated transport no problem . You are correct that a loophole exists in the RAW that allows units with dedicated transports to exceed transport capacity. However we must follow RAW and allow Praetorians on the NS and separately deal with the loophole (should we choose to do so).
Your argument is that you don't have to follow this rule, which runs against RAW. In fact you are in your approach slipping in a RAI ("we can ignore this rule") yet still trying to call it RAW.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 21:58:44
Except it doesn't because you have to invent a method of getting embarked that doesn't follow the rules for embarking. You're literally making rules up to have your argument fit.
You have permission to begin the game deployed in the transport. How do you get in there? According to your argument - magic. The actual rules - embarking.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Except it doesn't because you have to invent a method of getting embarked that doesn't follow the rules for embarking. You're literally making rules up to have your argument fit.
You have permission to begin the game deployed in the transport. How do you get in there? According to your argument - magic. The actual rules - embarking.
On the contrary, I am dilligently adhering to RAW.
These are the rules for embarking
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
For embarking to happen in deployment you would be the one making up rules. Is that not abundantly clear?
Except it doesn't because you have to invent a method of getting embarked that doesn't follow the rules for embarking. You're literally making rules up to have your argument fit.
You have permission to begin the game deployed in the transport. How do you get in there? According to your argument - magic. The actual rules - embarking.
On the contrary, I am dilligently adhering to RAW.
These are the rules for embarking
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
For embarking to happen in deployment you would be the one making up rules. Is that not abundantly clear?
Except you have permission for it to happen in deployment. Conflict! Specific > General. Deployment wins.
I've made nothing up. Cite the rules on how you end up embarked on a transport you never followed the rules for embarking into. Those must exist for your argument to be considered RAW.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Except it doesn't because you have to invent a method of getting embarked that doesn't follow the rules for embarking. You're literally making rules up to have your argument fit.
You have permission to begin the game deployed in the transport. How do you get in there? According to your argument - magic. The actual rules - embarking.
On the contrary, I am dilligently adhering to RAW.
These are the rules for embarking
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
For embarking to happen in deployment you would be the one making up rules. Is that not abundantly clear?
Except you have permission for it to happen in deployment. Conflict! Specific > General. Deployment wins.
I've made nothing up. Cite the rules on how you end up embarked on a transport you never followed the rules for embarking into. Those must exist for your argument to be considered RAW.
They start the game embarked upon the vehicle as indicated clearly in the rules. Embarking is going through the process of starting outside the vehicle to winding up inside the vehicle. If the game starts with them embarked on the vehicle then logically you don't have to go through the process of embarking them.
The rules start the game with them embarked upon the NS so no embarking happens at deployment.
The rules for embarking specify movement phase and cannot apply at deployment (which is fine because no embarking happens anyway at deployment - see note above)
Anyway, that's all rehash on the linked thread above. I was only asking for Kriswall to explain whether his argument was RAW, RAI, or whatever. More of a discussion of what counts as RAW (ie if you willfully ignore a rule can you say you are RAW?)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:20:05
col_impact wrote: They start the game embarked upon the vehicle as indicated clearly in the rules. Embarking is going through the process of starting outside the vehicle to winding up inside the vehicle. If the game starts with them embarked on the vehicle then logically you don't have to go through the process of embarking them.
You do realize that the Combined Reserve Units rule you quoted isn't permission to be embarked, right? It just says that you have to specify if you are.
Please cite permission.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote: The rules for embarking specify movement phase and cannot apply at deployment (which is fine because no embarking happens anyway at deployment - see note above)
... Except how I've already pointed out that it can perfectly well happen at deployment. Please don't ignore my posts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:19:26
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
col_impact wrote: They start the game embarked upon the vehicle as indicated clearly in the rules. Embarking is going through the process of starting outside the vehicle to winding up inside the vehicle. If the game starts with them embarked on the vehicle then logically you don't have to go through the process of embarking them.
You do realize that the Combined Reserve Units rule you quoted isn't permission to be embarked, right? It just says that you have to specify if you are.
Please cite permission.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
col_impact wrote: The rules for embarking specify movement phase and cannot apply at deployment (which is fine because no embarking happens anyway at deployment - see note above)
... Except how I've already pointed out that it can perfectly well happen at deployment. Please don't ignore my posts.
Feel free to point out in the rules for deployment when and how you exactly go through the process of embarking them.
Here are the rules. Go into detail how that happens.
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:24:10
col_impact wrote: Feel free to point out in the rules for deployment when and how you exactly go through the process of embarking them.
Here are the rules. Go into detail how that happens.
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. (Stricken because this cannot happen in the Deployment phase and we have permission to embark)
The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
Not hard at all. You then, per the Combined Reserve Units rules, must specify that the unit is embarked. You forgot some rules though:
Spoiler:
Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity.
Note the underlined.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
col_impact wrote: Feel free to point out in the rules for deployment when and how you exactly go through the process of embarking them.
Here are the rules. Go into detail how that happens.
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. (Stricken because this cannot happen in the Deployment phase and we have permission to embark)
The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
Not hard at all. You then, per the Combined Reserve Units rules, must specify that the unit is embarked. You forgot some rules though:
Spoiler:
Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity.
Note the underlined.
First, striking out lines of rules is inventing rules.
Further, you don't have permission at deployment to go through embarking. 'Embarking' is not mentioned in the deployment rules. The rules start you off 'embarked on' or 'deployed inside' as you helpfully quoted. So you have utterly failed to show when embarking happens at deployment since as you quoted for me 'deployed inside' circumvents embarking entirely.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:34:38
col_impact wrote: Feel free to point out in the rules for deployment when and how you exactly go through the process of embarking them.
Here are the rules. Go into detail how that happens.
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. (Stricken because this cannot happen in the Deployment phase and we have permission to embark)
The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
Not hard at all. You then, per the Combined Reserve Units rules, must specify that the unit is embarked. You forgot some rules though:
Spoiler:
Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity.
Note the underlined.
First, striking out lines of rules is inventing rules.
Not at all. I demonstrated there was a conflict so those rules cannot apply, hence the strikeout.
Further, you don't have permission at deployment to go through embarking. 'Embarking' is not mentioned in the deployment rules. The rules start you off 'embarked on' or 'deployed inside' as you helpfully quoted. So you have utterly failed to show when embarking happens at deployment since as you quoted for me 'deployed inside' circumvents embarking entirely.
But it's still subject to their Transport Capacity - which includes the exclusion of Jump Infantry unless specified. Have you found some place it's specified yet?
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
col_impact wrote: Feel free to point out in the rules for deployment when and how you exactly go through the process of embarking them.
Here are the rules. Go into detail how that happens.
Spoiler:
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. (Stricken because this cannot happen in the Deployment phase and we have permission to embark)
The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
Not hard at all. You then, per the Combined Reserve Units rules, must specify that the unit is embarked. You forgot some rules though:
Spoiler:
Models can be deployed ‘inside’ buildings, fortifications, or Transport vehicles in their deployment zone, subject to their Transport Capacity.
Note the underlined.
First, striking out lines of rules is inventing rules.
Not at all. I demonstrated there was a conflict so those rules cannot apply, hence the strikeout.
Further, you don't have permission at deployment to go through embarking. 'Embarking' is not mentioned in the deployment rules. The rules start you off 'embarked on' or 'deployed inside' as you helpfully quoted. So you have utterly failed to show when embarking happens at deployment since as you quoted for me 'deployed inside' circumvents embarking entirely.
But it's still subject to their Transport Capacity - which includes the exclusion of Jump Infantry unless specified. Have you found some place it's specified yet?
Quote the rule you are referring to.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrotherGecko wrote: Still subject to thier transport capacity which doesn't include jump pack infantry.
Spoiler:
A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent
Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models
equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity.
Spoiler:
Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other
means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type
categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it
occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous
Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two
sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry
would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.
Spoiler:
The only limitation of a Dedicated Transport is that when it is deployed, it can
only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any Independent Characters that
have joined it). After the game begins, it can then transport any friendly
Infantry unit, subject to Transport Capacity and other special exclusions, as
explained in the vehicle’s entry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 22:45:51
I do like how you are selectively ignoring the rules for Jump units on Transports by not quoting them (even though they would follow the rules for them) as well as the fact the very last line in the last rule you posted states that the vehicles entry would explain any special exclusions it has.
Transport Capacity section of the Transport rules...
"TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider."
So, Jump Infantry can't embark upon Transports, per the Transport Capacity rules. When you deploy a unit inside a Transport, it is embarked. Clearly, being deployed inside a Transport during deployment is a form of embarkation as it results in a unit being embarked.
Since you can only deploy models inside a Transport subject to the Transport's Transport Capacity AND the Transport Capacity rules say you can't embark Jump Infantry, the Transport itself would have to have a special exemption. The 5th edition Necron Codex had such an exemption. The 7th edition Codex doesn't.
This seems very black and white if you're actually reading the Transport Capacity rules. You need to show that being deployed into a Transport ISN'T a form of embarkation that happens during deployment.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
I'd suggest we end this line of argument. Nobody appears to agree with col_impact, his argument is internally inconsistent and he ignores certain rules in his citations.
I'd suggest a mod lock, but this thread is really an FAQ wishlist thread.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
TRANSPORT CAPACITY Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports. Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Since the requirement to be Infantry is under the rule TRANSPORT CAPACITY and you are subject to a transports TRANSPORT CAPACITY you need a rule specifically stating otherwise. You've utterly failed to present one.
Spoiler:
A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity.
Yup! Which includes the restriction on Jump Infantry. Unless you're going to pretend that doesn't apply?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 23:00:07
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
col_impact wrote: But it's still subject to their Transport Capacity - which includes the exclusion of Jump Infantry unless specified. Have you found some place it's specified yet?
Quote the rule you are referring to.
Seriously?
Spoiler:
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Since the requirement to be Infantry is under the rule TRANSPORT CAPACITY and you are subject to a transports TRANSPORT CAPACITY you need a rule specifically stating otherwise. You've utterly failed to present one.
Spoiler:
A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent
Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models
equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity.
Yup! Which includes the restriction on Jump Infantry. Unless you're going to pretend that doesn't apply?
Jump Infantry are restricted from embarking upon. Since as you noted, the game starts with units embarked on or deployed inside, the restriction never applies.
If you feel otherwise, point out when exactly embarking happens at deployment.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 23:03:01
Kriswall wrote: I'd suggest we end this line of argument. Nobody appears to agree with col_impact, his argument is internally inconsistent and he ignores certain rules in his citations.
I'd suggest a mod lock, but this thread is really an FAQ wishlist thread.
I don't think I have never wanted so many FAQ's for a single Codex
col_impact wrote: Jump Infantry are restricted from embarking upon. Since as you noted, the game starts with units embarked on or deployed inside, the restriction never applies.
So despite being told "subject to their Transport Capacity" you feel that part of the Transport Capacity doesn't apply. Cute. I'm done with you - you've done nothing but argue simply to get threads locked.
You're certainly not debating honestly.
If you feel otherwise, point out when exactly embarking happens at deployment.
I have done so - with rules support, and not some invented thing that doesn't exist in the BRB.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
I like the consistent ignoring of the deployement rules. Were it says models can deploy in their transports but are still subject to their transport capacity.
At this point I feel like he won't admit he is wrong and is just trolling to get threads locked too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/13 23:10:21
BrotherGecko wrote: I like the consistent ignoring of the deployement rules. Were it says models can deploy in their transports but are still subject to their transport capacity.
At this point I feel like he won't admit he is wrong and is just trolling to get threads locked too.
Page 3 in this thread has a decent summary. I am applying strict RAW. People are throwing their hands up in the air and accusing me of all sorts of things when all I am doing is taking them to task at finding when and how exactly they go through the embarking process at deployment because deployment totally circumvents it in the rules as they are written. RAW means you have to deal with the rules as they are.
As of yet no one has been able to detail out the embarking process at deployment. The rules totally circumvent it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/13 23:48:34
Guys, this is not the thread for this. This is a collection thread only. Please take it outside.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/14 00:24:41
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Kriswall wrote: Yup, if you're throwing one restriction out the window, you have to throw them all out to be consistent. If the unit type restriction on embarking doesn't matter, then neither should the unit size restriction. Enjoy your 30 Shoota Boy strong Trukk gunboats. (Obviously being sarcastic.)
Because restrictions are always consistent right? (sarcasm as well) That's a bit throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Reading the BRB is like reading one of those old choose your own adventure books where you keep flipping to random page after random page. There are so many rules within rules that override other rules but not these other rules over hear because of this rule.
Thought of a better example. The whole Codex > BRB all the time every time zealotry while if there is a contradiction the codex wins out, that is only most of the time not all the time.
No, it's all the time, but a lot if people like to pretend that "if there is a contradiction" part doesn't exist. Or pretend that there isn't a contradiction when there is (and vice versa).
It can't be all the time, for example what can fit in a transport the TC in codex's just say models but the BRB has the restriction of infantry. The brb's rule for CT is an advance rule where the TC of number of models in the codex is basic since it just says models.
Ahh re-reading what you said and what I said I get the impression you think I'm saying that the "in case of contradiction"isn't all the time. Correct? If so Sorry for the confusion I will correct it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/14 04:52:40
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
I don't think I have never wanted so many