Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In light of the new Necron release, we're seeing quite a few rules exemptions to the status quo of codices and supplements. With the release of the Exterminatus Campaign book only months before the major Necron re-haul, there's a possible discrepancy that needs to be addressed by GW in print regarding that as well.

In an effort to compile all our conflicts with the new rules, and to hopefully submit the queries together for FAQs rather than piece-meal (thereby increasing the chances that GW will write the comprehensive FAQ that we need), here is the place where we can collect our most detailed questions. Maybe once we're done we can submit en masse.

Please read the posts as they go, and only repeat a query if you can provide a better worded version of it.

Gaze of Death:

As per "Datasheet - C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer", can the special power "Gaze of Death", due to its unique wording as an ability, act in the following ways:

Target Swooping Monstrous Creatures

Target Enemy Units under the effects of the Psychic Power "Invisibility"

Be utilized when the C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer is locked in combat.

Be utilized upon enemy units locked in combat themselves.

Target a different enemy unit during the shooting phase than the Wargear shooting attack "Powers of the C'tan"

Still be used in the shooting phase after making a run move

Mephrit Dynasty

As per the "Forces of the Mehprit Dynasty" section in Campaign Supplement - Exterminatus, can the following be clarified in relation to Codex: Necrons:

Can a character from the five detailed Detachments and Formations under "The Mephrit Dynasty" select an item from the "Artefects of the Aeons" in Codex: Necrons in place of/in addition to selecting an item from "Relics from the War in Heaven" in Exterminatus?

Can a character from "The Mephrit Dynasty" detachments and formations select multiple different items from "Relics from the War in Heaven", following the rule of one type of item per army?

Under "Relics from the War in Heaven", how does the "Edge of Eternity" weapon type "Executioner (2+)" interact with the detailed "Executioner" rule?

Under the Formation "Zarathusa's Royal Decurion", can the listed Overlord unit be replaced with a Catacomb Command Barge unit?

From "Relics from the War in Heaven", does the C'tan Shard unit designator on the item "God Shackles" extend to the Transcendent C'tan unit?

Obelisk and Tesseract Vault Models

Regarding the Datasheets and Models for "Obelisk" & "Tesseract Vault":

What are the exact firing Arcs for the Wargear options "Four Tesla Spheres"?

Would Skimmers and Jetbikes (and by extension zooming flyers, which move "exactly like a skimmer", p.84) "ignore all [...] dangerous terrain tests" (p. 89) from an Obelisk's "Graviton Pulse" as long as they do not begin or end their move within 18" of the Obelisk?

Triarch Praetorians & Night Scythes

Despite being Jump Infantry, can Praetorians start embarked on a Night Scythe as per the Dedicated Transport option in "Datasheet - Triarch Praetorians"? The datasheet for the Night Scythe makes no allowance for Transporting Jump Infantry under the special rule "Invasion Beams".

Wraithflight and Immune to Natural Law

Regarding the Datasheets for "Canoptek Wraiths", "C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer/Deciever", & "Transcendent C'tan":

Are models with the "Wraithflight" and "Immune to Natural Law" special rules able to charge through buildings, as they are listed terrain?

Do models with the "Wraithflight" and "Immune to Natural Law" rule trigger any effects of buildings or other terrain (such as the unstable fuel core of a mysterious wreckage) when moving?

Do Canoptek Wraiths ignore the initiative 1 penalty when charging in, into or out from difficult terrain due to the "Wraithflight" special rule?

Cumulative Reanimation Protocols

In regards to the "Reanimation Protocols" special rule:

Are multiple bonuses to RP cumulative in respect to the the Instant Death negative modifier of -1? Example: should a unit rolling against an Instant Death wound, with a Cryptek "Technomancer" modifier as well as the "Ever-Living" special rule (from the Decurion Detachment Command Benefits section), pass its Reanimation Protocol roll on a +4?

Set Value Modifiers

"Quantum Shielding" Necron Vehicle Equipment:

Since both the "Quantum Shielding" special rule and the "Lance" universal special rule apply set value modifiers to Necron vehicles, which one applies?

Reclamation Legion

As per "Datasheet - Reclamation Legion", would the special rules granted therein work in the following way:

Dedicated Transport vehicles and/or Monoliths- that are chosen as part of a "Reclamation Legion"- benefit from the "Move Through Cover" universal special rule, and thus automatically pass dangerous terrain tests (such as from deep striking into or beginning/ending movement in difficult terrain).

Trazyn the Infinite and Illuminor Szeras

Regarding the Datasheets for "Trazyn the Infinite" and "Illuminor Szeras":

Are these characters missing their Wargear, or do they have none?

Do Deathmarks teleported by a veil of darkness get their hunters from hyperspace to wound bonus that turn?

Can Triarch Praetorians embark on a Night Scythe purchased as a Dedicated Transport despite them being Jump Infantry and the Night Scythe normally not being allowed to Transport Jump Infantry?

glancing at the YMDC thread, it looks like:

- Do Canoptek Wraiths ignore the initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain?

- Can a Nightbringer use the Gaze special rule while locked in combat? Or after the model has run?

Can a Canoptek Harvest take one Spyder or up to one unit of three?

Wording implies one, but the Decurion Poster from the collector's edition shows three (along with the max size of all other formations).

 Nilok wrote:
Can a Canoptek Harvest take one Spyder or up to one unit of three?

Wording implies one, but the Decurion Poster from the collector's edition shows three (along with the max size of all other formations).

Looking at the codex, the formation requires 1 unit of Canoptek Spyders. The entry for Canoptek Spyders says you can take 1-3 of them as a unit, so that seems pretty straightforward.

Or did you mean can the formation take multiple units of single spyders? That I'm not sure of...

I would try to keep most questions as neutral as possible.
@Bojazz, I would add C'tan Shards to that question too since they have the same wording.

More questions:
-What are the firing Arcs of the Obelisk and Vault?
-How many Powers of the C'tan can a C'tan use per turn, one or two?
-Why can a Ghost Ark carry Characters if they can only carry 10 models and Warriors have a minimum of 10?
-How does Edge of Eternity's special weapon work?
-How many Spyders can I take in a Canoptek Harvest?
-Can you please rewrite Reanimation Protocol, because at the moment I can autopass it with four Crypteks because the current wording doesn't work.

Can a Triarch Praetorian squad who purchased a Night Scythe as a Dedicated Transport embark on it?

 Jambles wrote:
Looking at the codex, the formation requires 1 unit of Canoptek Spyders. The entry for Canoptek Spyders says you can take 1-3 of them as a unit, so that seems pretty straightforward.

Actually it says "1 Canoptek Spyder" and not "1 unit of Canoptek Spyders".

 Ghaz wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Looking at the codex, the formation requires 1 unit of Canoptek Spyders. The entry for Canoptek Spyders says you can take 1-3 of them as a unit, so that seems pretty straightforward.

Actually it says "1 Canoptek Spyder" and not "1 unit of Canoptek Spyders".

In the fluff section of the codex, where is shows the breakout of the Decurian Detachment (which is also laid out a bit differently from the actual detachment), it shows "1 Unit of Spyders", but in the actual formation it the rules section, it states "1 Spyder". Given that it then uses "1 Unit...." for wraiths and scarabs in the rules for the formation, I think it can only be interpreted as 1 single Spyder until otherwise specified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:
I would try to keep most questions as neutral as possible.
@Bojazz, I would add C'tan Shards to that question too since they have the same wording.


-Can you please rewrite Reanimation Protocol, because at the moment I can autopass it with four Crypteks because the current wording doesn't work.

I'm confused by this, the RP rule states it can never be improved to more than 4+. How can you autopass with four crypteks?



Now, for my question to add to the FAQ:

Is Nightbringer's Gaze of Death considered to be a shooting attack? We know its an attack, and its done in the Shooting phase, but that doesn't automatically equal "shooting attack" does it? Can it be used to target a different unit from the C'Tan Power attack?

Rules supersede fluff.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


I'm confused by this, the RP rule states it can never be improved to more than 4+. How can you autopass with four crypteks?

You normally need to roll 5 or higher to pass RP. If you have four Crypteks in the same unit, you get a +4 bonus to your roll. So if you roll a 1, it gets changed to 1+4 = 5 which is enough to pass RP.

 Ghaz wrote:
Rules supersede fluff.

Other formations have used "1 of x" and were comprised of multiple models. Furthermore the discrepancy between visual depiction in the codex and written is odd to say the least. It simply needs a FAQ.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Looking at the codex, the formation requires 1 unit of Canoptek Spyders. The entry for Canoptek Spyders says you can take 1-3 of them as a unit, so that seems pretty straightforward.

Actually it says "1 Canoptek Spyder" and not "1 unit of Canoptek Spyders".

In the fluff section of the codex, where is shows the breakout of the Decurian Detachment (which is also laid out a bit differently from the actual detachment), it shows "1 Unit of Spyders", but in the actual formation it the rules section, it states "1 Spyder". Given that it then uses "1 Unit...." for wraiths and scarabs in the rules for the formation, I think it can only be interpreted as 1 single Spyder until otherwise specified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:
I would try to keep most questions as neutral as possible.
@Bojazz, I would add C'tan Shards to that question too since they have the same wording.


-Can you please rewrite Reanimation Protocol, because at the moment I can autopass it with four Crypteks because the current wording doesn't work.

I'm confused by this, the RP rule states it can never be improved to more than 4+. How can you autopass with four crypteks?



Now, for my question to add to the FAQ:

Is Nightbringer's Gaze of Death considered to be a shooting attack? We know its an attack, and its done in the Shooting phase, but that doesn't automatically equal "shooting attack" does it? Can it be used to target a different unit from the C'Tan Power attack?

Crypteks don't modify the roll needed. I.e., they don't change the 5+ needed to a 4+. What they do is let you add +1 to all of your rolls. So, if I roll a 4, I get to add +1 and can satisfy the 5+ requirement of RP. At no point is RP requiring a 4+ roll. It's semantic, but that's currently how RaW works. Now, I don't think you can stack 4 Crypteks as the unit wouldn't be able to benefit from the same special rule multiple times, but there is more than one special rule that grants +1 to the roll results. They are...

Necron Decurion Detachment Command Benefit "Ever-Living" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 4+ needed)
Cryptek "Technomancer" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 3+ needed)
Orikan the Diviner "Master Chronomancer" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 2+ needed)

On top of this, a Rez Orb allows you to re-roll misses. So, in practice you have a re-rollable 2+. On paper, the required dice roll is still a 5+ as the various special rules boost the roll itself and don't modify the required dice roll. In other words, even with Orikan and a Cryptek present in a Decurion Detachment, you'd still require a 5+ to activate RP. You'd just get +3 to all your rolls, so a roll of a 2 would satisfy the 5+ requirement.

 Nilok wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Rules supersede fluff.

Other formations have used "1 of x" and were comprised of multiple models. Furthermore the discrepancy between visual depiction in the codex and written is odd to say the least. It simply needs a FAQ.

What formations would those be? And artwork is usually done by the artists, not the rules authors.

Guys, I'd rehash old arguments in old threads. Or start new arguments in new threads. I like the idea of a thread for FAQ material, and that's going to get buried if we hijack it for rules arguments.

As always, I'd rather a rule be clarified and my reading of it be wrong, than there be ambiguity and room for confusion on the current RAW.

 Kriswall wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Looking at the codex, the formation requires 1 unit of Canoptek Spyders. The entry for Canoptek Spyders says you can take 1-3 of them as a unit, so that seems pretty straightforward.

Actually it says "1 Canoptek Spyder" and not "1 unit of Canoptek Spyders".

In the fluff section of the codex, where is shows the breakout of the Decurian Detachment (which is also laid out a bit differently from the actual detachment), it shows "1 Unit of Spyders", but in the actual formation it the rules section, it states "1 Spyder". Given that it then uses "1 Unit...." for wraiths and scarabs in the rules for the formation, I think it can only be interpreted as 1 single Spyder until otherwise specified.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:
I would try to keep most questions as neutral as possible.
@Bojazz, I would add C'tan Shards to that question too since they have the same wording.


-Can you please rewrite Reanimation Protocol, because at the moment I can autopass it with four Crypteks because the current wording doesn't work.

I'm confused by this, the RP rule states it can never be improved to more than 4+. How can you autopass with four crypteks?



Now, for my question to add to the FAQ:

Is Nightbringer's Gaze of Death considered to be a shooting attack? We know its an attack, and its done in the Shooting phase, but that doesn't automatically equal "shooting attack" does it? Can it be used to target a different unit from the C'Tan Power attack?

Crypteks don't modify the roll needed. I.e., they don't change the 5+ needed to a 4+. What they do is let you add +1 to all of your rolls. So, if I roll a 4, I get to add +1 and can satisfy the 5+ requirement of RP. At no point is RP requiring a 4+ roll. It's semantic, but that's currently how RaW works. Now, I don't think you can stack 4 Crypteks as the unit wouldn't be able to benefit from the same special rule multiple times, but there is more than one special rule that grants +1 to the roll results. They are...

Necron Decurion Detachment Command Benefit "Ever-Living" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 4+ needed)
Cryptek "Technomancer" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 3+ needed)
Orikan the Diviner "Master Chronomancer" grants a +1 bonus to RP rolls. (effective 2+ needed)

On top of this, a Rez Orb allows you to re-roll misses. So, in practice you have a re-rollable 2+. On paper, the required dice roll is still a 5+ as the various special rules boost the roll itself and don't modify the required dice roll. In other words, even with Orikan and a Cryptek present in a Decurion Detachment, you'd still require a 5+ to activate RP. You'd just get +3 to all your rolls, so a roll of a 2 would satisfy the 5+ requirement.

Thats slowed, and if that is true, then why would they even put the "Never modified more than 4+" in the rules at all if the only ways to improve it get around it.

Whenever someone has a question about an issue, it might be better to link the thread.
Discussion and or further questions could be asked there, and if the thread is closed; well, it's closed for a reason.

As for the RP4+ issue: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633728.page#7553719

So perhaps it's wise to delete some posts in here to keep it clean

 Lobukia wrote:
Guys, I'd rehash old arguments in old threads. Or start new arguments in new threads. I like the idea of a thread for FAQ material, and that's going to get buried if we hijack it for rules arguments.

Thank you. This thread isn't here to debate the issues, but to merely voice them in the most exact, formal, and simple manner.

Please carry these discussions on elsewhere, and help us rewrite the questions in the manner above. Thank you!

I'm going to try my hand at this myself. If you come up with a great way to phrase it, I'll put in the OP. Page numbers and all would be great.

 Victory wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Guys, I'd rehash old arguments in old threads. Or start new arguments in new threads. I like the idea of a thread for FAQ material, and that's going to get buried if we hijack it for rules arguments.

Thank you. This thread isn't here to debate the issues, but to merely voice them in the most exact, formal, and simple manner.

Please carry these discussions on elsewhere, and help us rewrite the questions in the manner above. Thank you!

Indeed.

Let's keep this as uncluttered as possible please.

Thank you.

I updated the OP with examples. My approach was to leave as much up to the FAQ team, without trying to nudge them in a particular interpretation. Should we phrase this stuff more assertively, with our interpretations? If you come up with better ways to phase them, then post it.

I'm not familiar with the Spyder Formation debate, nor the Wraith Initiative discussion, maybe someone can step up and deliver and write the queries. *Nudge nudge*

The debate with the Canoptek Harvest is the rules say "1 Canoptek Spyder" instead of "1 unit of Canoptek Spyders" in the Formation Composition section (a unit of spyders is 1-3 models). Conversely there's no mention in the Formation Restrictions section where they detail specific unit sizes that the unit is restricted to 1 Canoptek Spyder. On top of that, there is artwork that shows three Canoptek Spyders in the formation while the rules as noted say "1 Canoptek Spyder".

Some more updates. If anyone's writing those letters yet, they might as well link to this thread, or better yet, ask the questions directly in bulk.

Obelisk Gravity Pulse - Flying Monstrous Creatures must take a Dangerous Terrain test if thy move within 18" of an Obelisk. Flying Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Move Through Cover auto passes Dangerous Terrain.

What is the point of affecting FMCs, if they autopass?

 Happyjew wrote:
Obelisk Gravity Pulse - Flying Monstrous Creatures must take a Dangerous Terrain test if thy move within 18" of an Obelisk. Flying Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Move Through Cover auto passes Dangerous Terrain.

What is the point of affecting FMCs, if they autopass?

Is there a thread on this?
EDIT: Found it.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633837.page

 Victory wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Obelisk Gravity Pulse - Flying Monstrous Creatures must take a Dangerous Terrain test if thy move within 18" of an Obelisk. Flying Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Move Through Cover auto passes Dangerous Terrain.

What is the point of affecting FMCs, if they autopass?

Is there a thread on this?

It would cause them to strike at I1 in assault if they assault within 18" of the obelisk.

In addition to the penalties for charging through difficult terrain, if any model in a charging unit goes through dangerous terrain, that model must immediately take a Dangerous Terrain test.

so they would pass the dangerous terrain test but would still suffer the 'in addition to the penalties for charging through difficult terrain' which includes:

To represent this, if at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit’s models must attack at Initiative step 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain.

 Victory wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Obelisk Gravity Pulse - Flying Monstrous Creatures must take a Dangerous Terrain test if thy move within 18" of an Obelisk. Flying Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover. Move Through Cover auto passes Dangerous Terrain.

What is the point of affecting FMCs, if they autopass?

Is there a thread on this?
EDIT: Found it.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633837.page

You might also want to check out where it was briefly touched on in the Necron Mega Thread in News & Rumours.

One other question.

The Necron Decurion Detachment is made up of a number of formations. The units in each formation is listed right after the "FOC" specifying units required. Additionally, some of these formations can be taken as normal Formations (rules listed elsewhere). For the Command/Core/Auxiliary Formations, do you just use what is listed after the FOC (meaning there is no requirements, but no benefits), or do you use the "normal" formations (meaning you must meet any listed requirements, but gain the benefits)?

 Happyjew wrote:
One other question.

The Necron Decurion Detachment is made up of a number of formations. The units in each formation is listed right after the "FOC" specifying units required. Additionally, some of these formations can be taken as normal Formations (rules listed elsewhere). For the Command/Core/Auxiliary Formations, do you just use what is listed after the FOC (meaning there is no requirements, but no benefits), or do you use the "normal" formations (meaning you must meet any listed requirements, but gain the benefits)?

I'm confused. I thought we're pretty well sorted out on this issue. Can you point to a thread where this is raised?

 Happyjew wrote:
One other question.

The Necron Decurion Detachment is made up of a number of formations. The units in each formation is listed right after the "FOC" specifying units required. Additionally, some of these formations can be taken as normal Formations (rules listed elsewhere). For the Command/Core/Auxiliary Formations, do you just use what is listed after the FOC (meaning there is no requirements, but no benefits), or do you use the "normal" formations (meaning you must meet any listed requirements, but gain the benefits)?

I read this 5 times now and still dont get what your point is Oo

All these formations are "normal" formations and can be taken...