Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
It's interesting that if you like the Ultramarines as much as anyone likes other Chapters, you get labeled a fanboy.

Is there such a thing as an Ultramarines hateboy?

Every single one of the major Chapters has had some part of their character blown out of proportion by bad writing. For Ultramarines it's being the golden boys, for Blood Angels it's bloody, blood, blood blood. For Space Wolves it's having Santa Claus as their Chapter master and everything wolfy, etc.

Tell me about it. I can see why people wouldn't like them (mainly due to bad writing) but it's almost at meme level now, the dislike for the Ultramarines.

I think many of the fans paint everything as hatred. I mean just not thinking of the Ultramarines as awesome means you get painted as a hater. The truth in general is more complex.

I've never seen anyone ridiculed or called a hater for not liking the Ultramarines, and I've often seen people who like them be called fanboys and such. Even in this thread, I put forward a statement about them and immediately all I got was 'oh great, another fanboy...'

I wouldn't mind, but it's perfectly okay to be a fan of the space wolves, or the blood Angels, or any other chapter but if you like the Ultramarines 'oh no another smurf fanboi'.

Where in this post have you seen people ridiculing or belittling a person for being an Ultramarine fanboi? I haven't seen it at this post, but that might be me.

Both the BA and SW suffers from a different kind of bad writing than the Ultramarines so thats their explanation. I see a lot of hatred for the SW but I curb my enthusiasm for defending them at every turn and corner. If people dislike something defending it would change nothing.

 dusara217 wrote:
Greeeaaat, another fanboy. I'll just exit the room right after I finish this thought: the Ultramarines are the most vanilla Chapter ever. At least 50% of Chapters are modeled after them, and the rest just use the common sense of a supersoldier and USE THE CODEX ASTARTES AS A TACTICS BIBLE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. 90% of Chapters are an effective, well-rounded fighting force, due to the Codex Astartes being forced upon them; the outliers being those who specialize. Hell, even the Blood Angels are a well-rounded, effective fighting force; they're almost entirely codex compliant.

How is that not meant to be belittling? Just because I put a defence forward about the UM, not a raving fanboyish one, it was perfectly reasonable. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind (for the third time i can see why people might not like them), but it would be nice to have a reasonable conversation about them without immediately being labelled a fanboy.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
Greeeaaat, another fanboy. I'll just exit the room right after I finish this thought: the Ultramarines are the most vanilla Chapter ever. At least 50% of Chapters are modeled after them, and the rest just use the common sense of a supersoldier and USE THE CODEX ASTARTES AS A TACTICS BIBLE LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. 90% of Chapters are an effective, well-rounded fighting force, due to the Codex Astartes being forced upon them; the outliers being those who specialize. Hell, even the Blood Angels are a well-rounded, effective fighting force; they're almost entirely codex compliant.

How is that not meant to be belittling? Just because I put a defence forward about the UM, not a raving fanboyish one, it was perfectly reasonable. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind (for the third time i can see why people might not like them), but it would be nice to have a reasonable conversation about them without immediately being labelled a fanboy.

That is bad, and I'm sorry for missing that one.

well many people have bad experiences with them, but thats no excuse for being mean. Its only a Freudian explanation.

I called you a fanboy because the gist of what you said was "Ultramarines are the best and have no faults and all other Chapters want to be Ultras". I have always found the Ultramarines to be a great Chapter, but it has very little character to it aside from some Roman-sounding names.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Then you should open the Codex Space Marines, or you have a truly warped sense of reading.

And don't they have certain Gauntlets? How about the standard bolter being the Ultima bolter? And how about the Land Raider Terminus Ultra? Thats a pretty big tank, and just three seconds of browsing. I wonder what else lie beneath the surface.

Corrections:
The Gauntlets of Ultramar are an Ultramarines relic, the only known one in the galaxy. I'm fairly sure every chapter has a relic weapon named after them/ their realm.

The Godwyn pattern bolter is actually the standard. Never heard of the Ultima pattern at all.

The Terminus Ultra is no bigger than a standard Land Raider. And is extensively used by the Ultramarines. Also, see the Land Raider Crusader, named after the Black Templars.

Yep. They really aren't as bad as the Space Wolves on the naming regard.

Actually you are quite mistaken. So were I, there are numerous patterns of bolters named after them. They are almost Red Bull in space naming everything after them. And they have a huge frakking tank named after them, i mean a Land Raider is quite the tank.. Well just be happy they didn't name a class of Titan or Battleship after themselves. They named a Segmentum after themselves. Seriously, I wouldn't try to defend this point if I were you as no other chapter nor legion has done that.

The Godwyn Ultima-pattern is used by the Minotaurs.

You have Mark II and III Ultima-patterns. Plus Ultra-pattern Mark VII. And it seems bolt-pistols were made of Ultima-pattern as well as the Ryza-Ultima-pattern comes to mind. I hope you made this argument out of ignorance and not in order to conceal the truth.

Blood Angels: Sanguinius is the bomb, Death Company are total badasses, Sanguinary guard are cool as all hell, Furiosos rock the table, Dante is the bomb (on the table top) and I love the red colour scheme.

 dusara217 wrote:
I called you a fanboy because the gist of what you said was "Ultramarines are the best and have no faults and all other Chapters want to be Ultras". I have always found the Ultramarines to be a great Chapter, but it has very little character to it aside from some Roman-sounding names.

That's not what I said. I've never said they have no faults. The gist of what I said, actually, is 'they're one of the most efficient fighting forces ever with a long illustrious history, that's why other Chapters look up to (look up to, not 'want to be') the Ultramarines'. Which I think is perfectly reasonable, not fanboyish at all. Yes lots of other Chapters are efficient and have a long history but that's why other chapters look up to the Ultramarines. That's all I said. Not once did I say 'UM are the best and have no faults', you just read that in what I wrote because you just dismissed me as a fanboy, which is my entire point.

Alpha legion. An army of ten thousand operatives.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Then you should open the Codex Space Marines, or you have a truly warped sense of reading.

And don't they have certain Gauntlets? How about the standard bolter being the Ultima bolter? And how about the Land Raider Terminus Ultra? Thats a pretty big tank, and just three seconds of browsing. I wonder what else lie beneath the surface.

Corrections:
The Gauntlets of Ultramar are an Ultramarines relic, the only known one in the galaxy. I'm fairly sure every chapter has a relic weapon named after them/ their realm.

The Godwyn pattern bolter is actually the standard. Never heard of the Ultima pattern at all.

The Terminus Ultra is no bigger than a standard Land Raider. And is extensively used by the Ultramarines. Also, see the Land Raider Crusader, named after the Black Templars.

Yep. They really aren't as bad as the Space Wolves on the naming regard.

Actually you are quite mistaken. So were I, there are numerous patterns of bolters named after them. They are almost Red Bull in space naming everything after them. And they have a huge frakking tank named after them, i mean a Land Raider is quite the tank.. Well just be happy they didn't name a class of Titan or Battleship after themselves. They named a Segmentum after themselves. Seriously, I wouldn't try to defend this point if I were you as no other chapter nor legion has done that.

The Godwyn Ultima-pattern is used by the Minotaurs.

You have Mark II and III Ultima-patterns. Plus Ultra-pattern Mark VII. And it seems bolt-pistols were made of Ultima-pattern as well as the Ryza-Ultima-pattern comes to mind. I hope you made this argument out of ignorance and not in order to conceal the truth.

So, they have the Ultima bolter and bolt pistol (because bolters and bolt pistols will have the same pattern because they're built together, like the forge world bolters and bolt pistols do, AND we don't even know if they're named after the UM, Ultima is a pretty generic name), and the LR Terminus Ultra. Do you mean Ultramar as the segmentum? I don't see what's wrong with that seeing as the Ultramarines formed it. The British made an empire; it was called the British Empire.

But if you really don't see the difference between 'Ultramar' and 'Ultima'; and 'Canis Wolfborn on a ThunderWolf with Wolf Claws and Wolf Amulets with the Saga of the Wolf...' Or 'Murderfang with Murderclaws and Murderlust from the planet Omnicide', I really don't know what to say.

 dusara217 wrote:
I called you a fanboy because the gist of what you said was "Ultramarines are the best and have no faults and all other Chapters want to be Ultras". I have always found the Ultramarines to be a great Chapter, but it has very little character to it aside from some Roman-sounding names.

I respectfully disagree, the character is there, it's just hard to find for a few reasons. the first is that as the "poster boy" chapter for the vanilla codex Ultramarines share page time with well... everyone else. IMHO the 6th edition codex which is notably thicker finally did some justice there, but it's worth noting that the dark angels codex has 26 pages devoted to Dark Angels history vs the Ultramarines having only 10 or so in Codex Space Marines. And then a few pages in a dataslate, there's a simply LOT less page count for the individual chapter. Even when you account for the increased page count in Codex: SMs (space Wolves meanwhile have the most codex info on them, possing a full codex unencumbered by any sucessor chapters and a supplement)

so you have less information, and what we do know is a little more subtle then the wolves and blood angels whom are pretty "in your face" about what makes them unique.

Can we all just agree the pre-Clan Raukan Iron Hands are far cooler than any other chapter and move on with our lives?

Raven Guard, because of Charcardorons. I think they might be what is left of the mutant Raven Guard, but I have not yet read a lot on RG other than the wiki page, so meybe not.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
Raven Guard, because of Charcardorons. I think they might be what is left of the mutant Raven Guard, but I have not yet read a lot on RG other than the wiki page, so meybe not.

I think they're basically a 'Nomad Predation Fleet' of Raven Guard that were sent to the edges of the Galaxy before the heresy, basically they're legionnaires from before Corax was found who were too bloodthirsty for his liking. They even had grey armour. That's what Extermination hints at.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
well many people have bad experiences with them

What do you mean? Did an Ultramarine steal your girlfriend or something

 Manchu wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
well many people have bad experiences with them

What do you mean? Did an Ultramarine steal your girlfriend or something

RE: Space Sharks - having a Khornish black sheep successor chapter is the new black it seems.

 Manchu wrote:
RE: Space Sharks - having a Khornish black sheep successor chapter is the new black it seems.

If they are what they're hinted to be (see my post above) it's because ore Corax RG worked with the Luna Wolves a lot (they were treated almost like another chapter of the LW) and they were pretty bloodthirsty, that's where they got it from.

 Manchu wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
well many people have bad experiences with them

What do you mean? Did an Ultramarine steal your girlfriend or something

You are a MOD, you should have seen that with your own eyes through experience, the experience-thing with the fans.

 ImAGeek wrote:
(see my post above)

What's your source for that info? From Badab Pt 2?

 Beaviz81 wrote:
you should have seen that with your own eyes through experience

In my experience, most people dislike the UM because they are the guys pictured on the box and that's really all there is to it.

 Manchu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
(see my post above)

What's your source for that info? From Badab Pt 2?

 Beaviz81 wrote:
you should have seen that with your own eyes through experience

In my experience, most people dislike the UM because they are the guys pictured on the box and that's really all there is to it.

It's from Extermination

I only have book one

I only have 2 and 3

Pity you are across the ocean, seems we own (or don't own) just the right books to be friends.

Yeah it is. I really want book 1 but I haven't found the money yet. Just need someone else with book four and bam, book club!

Do you know if Mr. Bligh also wrote Book IV?

 Manchu wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
(see my post above)

What's your source for that info? From Badab Pt 2?

 Beaviz81 wrote:
you should have seen that with your own eyes through experience

In my experience, most people dislike the UM because they are the guys pictured on the box and that's really all there is to it.

For me its more to it, but each has his or her own individual experience. And honestly I don't really see it that way. But thats me.

So what bad experience did you have with UM then?

 Manchu wrote:
Do you know if Mr. Bligh also wrote Book IV?

I'm pretty sure he did, yeah.

 Manchu wrote:
So what bad experience did you have with UM then?

More fanbois as the UM only exist on paper, tabletop and in a really crappy cartoon.

For the summary, just read what me and ImAGeek has discussed over this post.

Plus there are fans of Matt Ward.

I absolutely love the background for the Salamanders. I actually chose them at random, but they are my favorite Chapter to this day. They are the unsung heroes, fighting without seeking glory. The Salamanders are also willing to stand and fight for what they believe, not backing down in compromise.