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 david choe wrote:


What people is opening it? It is a history lesson. If you are at the present of now40k it is useless to you. Lol think about it.

If you go back to 35k and give the package to Imperial...then, they will know the future of the next 5000 years...like ork invasion, nids coming, etc...

In all honesty, these people would be killed. Anyone they spoke with would be killed. Their ships would be parked in the center of the nearest sun and then that sun would be killed.

 david choe wrote:
Just imagen what george Washington can do or for the U.S. govt. of 1700s can do if they have a high school history book from 2015..Hitler, 911, JFK, MLK, US civil war, etc...

Very little actually, because once you start making changes in history the later events no longer have the exact circumstances that produced them. You won't get the JFK assassination because the grandfather of the guy who shot him married someone else and the assassin was never born. You won't get 9/11 because a gun manufacturer that didn't exist in the original timeline made big campaign donations and got a law requiring all pilots to carry their brand of weapon, so instead the terrorists decided to blow up the super bowl with a truck bomb. Etc. The whole "go back in time with information" thing only helps you in two ways:

1) For a short time you can gain an advantage if you have detailed enough information that allows you to respond to near-future events that have already been set in motion. For example, if you show up on 9/10/2001 with a full description of the 9/11 plot you can have all of the hijackers arrested and prevent the attacks. This only lasts until the timeline diverges and your history book is no longer accurate.

2) You can get science and engineering knowledge that you don't already have, without all of the work of obtaining it. You'll still have to do all of the work for things like building a factory to build the machines to go into your computer chip factory, but technology is going to progress a lot faster until all of your science textbook's information has been used.

That second one is probably the more important one. Getting an advantage in one battle because you know the enemy plan is a lot less useful than getting antibiotics and modern sanitation to cut the death rate for wounded soldiers. But the Imperium doesn't have this option, since 40k technology is mostly just 30k technology with more broken parts and purity seals everywhere.

 david choe wrote:
I don't see why history is so damn secret ....I could be wrong. Like in real life...America history book is public knowledge....our enemy can read it and it won't matter.

Because real life doesn't have demons waiting just outside of reality, eager for someone to open the door and let them in. The Imperium has to keep secrets because otherwise one of two things happens: either someone with more ambition than sense decides to "fix" everything and starts a chaos problem, or someone who wants to help chaos suddenly has more tools to do so and starts a chaos problem.

 david choe wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
People tried to warn the Emperor about Horus. He ignored them.

Not from the future....E can read their minds and know that this is the truth. Or ignore and keep the package and look at other events like necron awaken or the nids is coming in 10,000 years...there are lots and lots of useful information.

Just imagen what george Washington can do or for the U.S. govt. of 1700s can do if they have a high school history book from 2015..Hitler, 911, JFK, MLK, US civil war, etc...

He could read the minds of people who were trying to warn him back then. If he didn't listen to them why would he listen to somebody from the future?

Don't focus so much on E and the heresy...focus on my package....if the imperial were not sure if this is the truth...after a few event went just like the prediction...you don't think they will start using the package?

Your package is a terrible idea. More people will open it and abuse the knowledge than any good which might occur as a result of it.

What people is opening it? It is a history lesson. If you are at the present of now40k it is useless to you. Lol think about it.

If you go back to 35k and give the package to Imperial...then, they will know the future of the next 5000 years...like ork invasion, nids coming, etc...

LOL...you guys are silly man...maybe just carry a history book in every ship and if that ship goes back in time...the protocol is to give the history book to the Imperial....there...simple. Lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Just imagen what george Washington can do or for the U.S. govt. of 1700s can do if they have a high school history book from 2015..Hitler, 911, JFK, MLK, US civil war, etc...

Very little actually, because once you start making changes in history the later events no longer have the exact circumstances that produced them. You won't get the JFK assassination because the grandfather of the guy who shot him married someone else and the assassin was never born. You won't get 9/11 because a gun manufacturer that didn't exist in the original timeline made big campaign donations and got a law requiring all pilots to carry their brand of weapon, so instead the terrorists decided to blow up the super bowl with a truck bomb. Etc. The whole "go back in time with information" thing only helps you in two ways:

1) For a short time you can gain an advantage if you have detailed enough information that allows you to respond to near-future events that have already been set in motion. For example, if you show up on 9/10/2001 with a full description of the 9/11 plot you can have all of the hijackers arrested and prevent the attacks. This only lasts until the timeline diverges and your history book is no longer accurate.

2) You can get science and engineering knowledge that you don't already have, without all of the work of obtaining it. You'll still have to do all of the work for things like building a factory to build the machines to go into your computer chip factory, but technology is going to progress a lot faster until all of your science textbook's information has been used.

That second one is probably the more important one. Getting an advantage in one battle because you know the enemy plan is a lot less useful than getting antibiotics and modern sanitation to cut the death rate for wounded soldiers. But the Imperium doesn't have this option, since 40k technology is mostly just 30k technology with more broken parts and purity seals everywhere.

 david choe wrote:
I don't see why history is so damn secret ....I could be wrong. Like in real life...America history book is public knowledge....our enemy can read it and it won't matter.

Because real life doesn't have demons waiting just outside of reality, eager for someone to open the door and let them in. The Imperium has to keep secrets because otherwise one of two things happens: either someone with more ambition than sense decides to "fix" everything and starts a chaos problem, or someone who wants to help chaos suddenly has more tools to do so and starts a chaos problem.

Lol...and that is not a good thing? Event just one event...prevented...or look at my big ass spaceship...maybe just maybe there is something useful here...hey..it is a ship from the future.

You guys are being silly...I thought of a good idea and why this protocol is useful...like I said...hand them a history book...if you don't like this package idea.

A voidship built in M35 is of inferior quality to one built in M25. The tech-base of the Imperium is sliding backwards, not advancing.

 Psienesis wrote:
A voidship built in M35 is of inferior quality to one built in M25. The tech-base of the Imperium is sliding backwards, not advancing.

Lol...you forgot about the purpose...the history book and a FREE ship ...what if that ship has 100 space marines onboard. It is a ship...it must have important cargo...

Storm bolters and assault cannon will disagree with you.

The quality of debate has seriously dipped off here.

General consensus seems to indicate that the Imperium of man may delegate a small amount of resources into cataloging and monitoring these anomalies, but any attempt to control them would fail.

Likewise, any attempt made to communicate back and change events that have already come to pass would be met with grimdark quarantine protocols or would be disastrous.

 david choe wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A voidship built in M35 is of inferior quality to one built in M25. The tech-base of the Imperium is sliding backwards, not advancing.

Lol...you forgot about the purpose...the history book and a FREE ship ...what if that ship has 100 space marines onboard. It is a ship...it must have important cargo...

Storm bolters and assault cannon will disagree with you.

100 more Space Marines appearing in the Heresy is meaningless, thousands of Marines are dying every hour of every battle. The assault cannon and the stormbolter are not post-Heresy inventions.

 Shidank wrote:
The quality of debate has seriously dipped off here.

General consensus seems to indicate that the Imperium of man may delegate a small amount of resources into cataloging and monitoring these anomalies, but any attempt to control them would fail.

Likewise, any attempt made to communicate back and change events that have already come to pass would be met with grimdark quarantine protocols or would be disastrous.

But why would they not want to look at the history book from the future? They don't want an edge? BTW...I think I was clear that for people in the present to look at the package, it is useless because it is a history....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A voidship built in M35 is of inferior quality to one built in M25. The tech-base of the Imperium is sliding backwards, not advancing.

Lol...you forgot about the purpose...the history book and a FREE ship ...what if that ship has 100 space marines onboard. It is a ship...it must have important cargo...

Storm bolters and assault cannon will disagree with you.

100 more Space Marines appearing in the Heresy is meaningless, thousands of Marines are dying every hour of every battle. The assault cannon and the stormbolter are not post-Heresy inventions.

.... .....

The ship could arrive at other spot...not every ship travel to terra and for heresy purpose. The ship could arrive at sector z in time to help out an ork invasion. Long story short....take the damn history book...it will help you.

Yes...storm bolsters were post heresy...this is why chaos space marines do not have it...it is a loyalist trademark weapon.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_Bolter

I've read enough 40k to know no one would look at the package and that anyone who might have would have been killed, evidence destroyed, and contacts extinguished or quarantined.

This is grimdark.

 Shidank wrote:
I've read enough 40k to know no one would look at the package and that anyone who might have would have been killed, evidence destroyed, and contacts extinguished or quarantined.

This is grimdark.

What about history books Or TIME man of the year article of 40,999 issue?

 david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
I've read enough 40k to know no one would look at the package and that anyone who might have would have been killed, evidence destroyed, and contacts extinguished or quarantined.

This is grimdark.

What about history books Or TIME man of the year article of 40,999 issue?

I could see this being grounds for the exterminatus of 200 worlds.

Grimdark.

At what point would they discover they've traveled back in time though? I can't imagine that all ships are constantly sending out a vox transmission asking the date. And even if they did travel back, a ship, appearing somewhere it shouldn't be, that may not be friendly is going to have every thing the local sector has thrown at it to ensure it ain't a threat, meaning they aren't going to get a chance to hand over this history book. And why would they? Say they survive long enough to discover they're in a different time period, and they have this book, anyone they hand it to would consider them either A. A heretic, or B. A nutcase that needs ignoring

 statu wrote:
At what point would they discover they've traveled back in time though? I can't imagine that all ships are constantly sending out a vox transmission asking the date. And even if they did travel back, a ship, appearing somewhere it shouldn't be, that may not be friendly is going to have every thing the local sector has thrown at it to ensure it ain't a threat, meaning they aren't going to get a chance to hand over this history book. And why would they? Say they survive long enough to discover they're in a different time period, and they have this book, anyone they hand it to would consider them either A. A heretic, or B. A nutcase that needs ignoring

Ok....because it is protocol...let's assume...they start this protocol in year 40,990


Year 40,992...they spot a unknow ship...the ship communicate to the planet...now they realise that the ship is from 40,998 (only went back in time by 6 years).
Because the protocol has been established in 40,990 not to blast them...after the ship and passanger has been in quarantine for two months on space port and their next of kin verify ....yes they are my grand sons, mothers, etc....genetic checking...we know they are from the future....

Let's look at the package...this package has news article, magazine, history book, etc.... What...out governor will be assassianate in 40,995 by a nut chaos cultist! Out break of Nurgle rot at sector c...

The question to me is....are ther now two mr. James in this universe now? The one who is 30 on the planet and mr. James who is 36 on the ship.

You have a greatly inflated view on how efficient the Imperium is.

 curran12 wrote:
You have a greatly inflated view on how efficient the Imperium is.

It not a big deal at all....

You guys are making this shoot first into comedy.

You don't think there are lost ship or ship that arrived too soon or too late using unpredictable warp travel?

Yes, Pirates might lie that they are from the future...they also lie about we are late or lost too.

This is up to the authority to judge if they are telling the truth. At least know that from the future or the past is a possibility.


There are spaceship all over imperial space and on average...50% or more will not be on schedule...so it is a friendly fire shot out every where is a freaking joke.

 david choe wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
You have a greatly inflated view on how efficient the Imperium is.

It not a big deal at all....

You guys are making this shoot first into comedy.

You don't think there are lost ship or ship that arrived too soon or too late using unpredictable warp travel?

Yes, Pirates might lie that they are from the future...they also lie about we are late or lost too.

This is up to the authority to judge if they are telling the truth. At least know that from the future or the past is a possibility.


There are spaceship all over imperial space and on average...50% or more will not be on schedule...so it is a friendly fire shot out every where is a freaking joke.

But the Imperium is exactly that. Nothing that makes sense to us, but it it is all they have left. There is a reason it is the grimdarkness. Plus, they would be shot for heresy before getting to say otherwise. Unmarked vessel comes out of warp? Kill it with fire. Welcome to the Imperium. Have these recycled body nutri-cookies.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
You have a greatly inflated view on how efficient the Imperium is.

It not a big deal at all....

You guys are making this shoot first into comedy.

You don't think there are lost ship or ship that arrived too soon or too late using unpredictable warp travel?

Yes, Pirates might lie that they are from the future...they also lie about we are late or lost too.

This is up to the authority to judge if they are telling the truth. At least know that from the future or the past is a possibility.


There are spaceship all over imperial space and on average...50% or more will not be on schedule...so it is a friendly fire shot out every where is a freaking joke.

But the Imperium is exactly that. Nothing that makes sense to us, but it it is all they have left. There is a reason it is the grimdarkness. Plus, they would be shot for heresy before getting to say otherwise. Unmarked vessel comes out of warp? Kill it with fire. Welcome to the Imperium. Have these recycled body nutri-cookies.

Let me think about this....
But they can check the data...
gak...what am I doing...you got a good point...
Stupid Imperium ...I handed them chaos's head on a silver plater and I got shot for it.

so in theory, just owning a time machine is enough to make sure that anything which upsets your status quo enough will just not happen; as long as you had access to your time machine afterwards.

sorted! you don't even need to do anything to keep your little section of the universe safe!

 SirDonlad wrote:
so in theory, just owning a time machine is enough to make sure that anything which upsets your status quo enough will just not happen; as long as you had access to your time machine afterwards.

sorted! you don't even need to do anything to keep your little section of the universe safe!

I think just owning a history book with a wrong printed date will get you and your family killed.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
In 40k's case, I'd go with stable time loops. Every time traveller who tries to change something already did, and that's why the present is how it is.

Well, going by what is more probable in real life, time travelers to the past would never change anything. They're preordained to go back in time because they already did travel back in time.

One more thing: I don't know why you're assuming that time travel with a history book automatically helps. For example, let's say you go back in time, and because you're not very creative you go kill Hitler like every other time traveler. In fact, you kill him in the perfect way, turn Germany into a progressive utopia, and create a new age of peace and prosperity for everyone in the region. You congratulate yourself on how clever you are, and return to your original time. Except you step out of your time machine into a radioactive wasteland where you're the only surviving human. Oops. Too bad you fixed one problem only to create a bigger one. Because it turns out that without the "Europe first" strategy the US effortlessly crushes Japan's imperialist ambitions with its overwhelming industrial advantages, and without an extended pacific war the original nuclear attacks never happened. So, without that horrifying example to make everyone realize how desperately they need to avoid a full-scale nuclear war the first use of nuclear weapons results in the end of human civilization. Congratulations time traveler, you just destroyed the world.

Now repeat this scenario with the Imperium, except instead of merely killing everyone you handed the universe to chaos and condemned all of humanity to a fate worse than death.

 Peregrine wrote:
One more thing: I don't know why you're assuming that time travel with a history book automatically helps. For example, let's say you go back in time, and because you're not very creative you go kill Hitler like every other time traveler. In fact, you kill him in the perfect way, turn Germany into a progressive utopia, and create a new age of peace and prosperity for everyone in the region. You congratulate yourself on how clever you are, and return to your original time. Except you step out of your time machine into a radioactive wasteland where you're the only surviving human. Oops. Too bad you fixed one problem only to create a bigger one. Because it turns out that without the "Europe first" strategy the US effortlessly crushes Japan's imperialist ambitions with its overwhelming industrial advantages, and without an extended pacific war the original nuclear attacks never happened. So, without that horrifying example to make everyone realize how desperately they need to avoid a full-scale nuclear war the first use of nuclear weapons results in the end of human civilization. Congratulations time traveler, you just destroyed the world.

Now repeat this scenario with the Imperium, except instead of merely killing everyone you handed the universe to chaos and condemned all of humanity to a fate worse than death.

Or alternatively, your actions already happened and history doesn't change at all- rather you had a part to play all along.

 Peregrine wrote:
One more thing: I don't know why you're assuming that time travel with a history book automatically helps. For example, let's say you go back in time, and because you're not very creative you go kill Hitler like every other time traveler. In fact, you kill him in the perfect way, turn Germany into a progressive utopia, and create a new age of peace and prosperity for everyone in the region. You congratulate yourself on how clever you are, and return to your original time. Except you step out of your time machine into a radioactive wasteland where you're the only surviving human. Oops. Too bad you fixed one problem only to create a bigger one. Because it turns out that without the "Europe first" strategy the US effortlessly crushes Japan's imperialist ambitions with its overwhelming industrial advantages, and without an extended pacific war the original nuclear attacks never happened. So, without that horrifying example to make everyone realize how desperately they need to avoid a full-scale nuclear war the first use of nuclear weapons results in the end of human civilization. Congratulations time traveler, you just destroyed the world.

Now repeat this scenario with the Imperium, except instead of merely killing everyone you handed the universe to chaos and condemned all of humanity to a fate worse than death.

why are you so half empty person?

What about half full...which is the whole effort.... maybe the opposite of what you stated can happened too. You walked out and people are united as one ... and no more wars ever again....

 david choe wrote:
why are you so half empty person?

Because 40k is a universe is a place where the glass isn't just half empty, it's completely empty. Oh, and by the way, the glass is actually a torture demon that just slaughtered you and filled itself with the liquefied remains of your still-beating heart.

^ This, right here, what Peregrine said.

This is Warhammer 40,000. Nothing ever accidentally works out for the best. In fact, if it happens by "accident", it's probably a Tzeentchian plot, and ends up causing suffering and horrid deaths for thousands upon thousands of people. Just as planned.

 david choe wrote:

What knowledge is so important that nobody should read it? I mean... I was thinking something more like a quick history time line... like the date of Horus death, Emperor died, Terror invasion, etc.... Most of this stuff should be in the history books. The point of this protocol is to give date location and time of important events that has happened and good Imperial subjects should tries to prevent from happening or make sure it does ... depends on the context.

Than the book gets lost and Biff Horus from the past finds it. He reads:
"...primarchs found - yep, crusade launched - correct, Horus heresy - yep, done it, Emps beats up Horus...guess i'll use some more help there, Hey, Angron!..." - and obliterates humanity.

 Peregrine wrote:

 david choe wrote:
why are you so half empty person?

Because 40k is a universe is a place where the glass isn't just half empty, it's completely empty. Oh, and by the way, the glass is actually a torture demon that just slaughtered you and filled itself with the liquefied remains of your still-beating heart.

Well....to be fair...I was talking about your Hitler sample.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 david choe wrote:

What knowledge is so important that nobody should read it? I mean... I was thinking something more like a quick history time line... like the date of Horus death, Emperor died, Terror invasion, etc.... Most of this stuff should be in the history books. The point of this protocol is to give date location and time of important events that has happened and good Imperial subjects should tries to prevent from happening or make sure it does ... depends on the context.

Than the book gets lost and Biff Horus from the past finds it. He reads:
"...primarchs found - yep, crusade launched - correct, Horus heresy - yep, done it, Emps beats up Horus...guess i'll use some more help there, Hey, Angron!..." - and obliterates humanity.

Why is everybody having a hard time thinking that history books are so rare like it is some kind of ancient artifact? The freaking ship from the future already have tons books and magazines...and God for bid....maybe eve a computer with history of information....

This concept is simple ...this is not rocket science...freaking ships in 40k are like city size,,,one of them comes back to the past from the future...the ship must have a history class Or a small library ...all it takes is one history book to and that faction has a huge edge.

Let's give up on the package idea. The Imperium does not work this way. If you'd like to entertain the idea this would work in one instance with one planet, you're free to do so. Convincing the rest of us that it will work is a fool's errand.

 Shidank wrote:
Let's give up on the package idea. The Imperium does not work this way. If you'd like to entertain the idea this would work in one instance with one planet, you're free to do so. Convincing the rest of us that it will work is a fool's errand.

Screw imperium...this should be chaos plot....send a history book back in time...

 david choe wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
Let's give up on the package idea. The Imperium does not work this way. If you'd like to entertain the idea this would work in one instance with one planet, you're free to do so. Convincing the rest of us that it will work is a fool's errand.

Screw imperium...this should be chaos plot....send a history book back in time...

And the imperium would burn it, the hand holding it, the ground the man was standing on, the planet he was living on, the star he was living by, and a random kitten just because.

We all get this and have repeated it to the point of absurdity, but oh well.