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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

So we are going to keep ignoring the required black carapace and interface to actually use all this equipment like terminator armor and riptides? and even power armor. edit: now sisters armor i can get behind

Terminator armor can be worn without the Black Carapace.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Terminator armor can be worn without the Black Carapace.

Are we talking inquisitor grade terminator armor? because i though Space marine armor did. if so bleh i forgot about human scale gear

Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

I gave it too much thought, I think. I chose Wave Serpent because of the incorporated technologies and the individual advancements they would represent.

They way I see it, if we are going of the original idea that the military has the ability to mass produce ANY of these things regardless of the actual problems in doing so (as if they had a "Build Now" button at the end of an assembly line) the sure way to go would be Riptides or IKs
Viewing real world production problems/limits the lasgun makes the most sense, an easy way to no longer need to produce ammunition=more production of lasguns/spare money
Regardless, power armor would likely be the most beneficial to be made, but we are simply a few steps behind to achieve something like that, and if we were to consider the original thought of problems/limits don't exist then I still stand that why not make the bigger stuff then?
thats my 2 1/2 cents

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

Just the power storage tech behind stuff like las guns and pulse weaponry would be enough. Lasguns get something like 60-70 shots (sometimes more, it varies in the fluff), and pulse rifles which require even more power get 50, so once we got that, we might be able to see things like energy and magnetic based weaponry, powered exo-skeletons, ect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well PA and Termy armour doesn't need the black carapase, it's just more clunky without it, I I think we can just hand wave the tau stuff to assume it's been altered for human use.

 Desubot wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

It's feasible to assume we could reverse engineer our own interface or maybe just create a much more simplistic piloting method and in the process upgrade to bs 4? lol. Pretty funny to me that they have some advanced system integration and still only have bs 3.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Inquisitor grade stuff, yeah.

Mmmmm then yeah. it doesn't really upgrade your Strength (in game stat wise) but the invul and protection aspect is nice. though its still not invulnerable. even daggers and thrown objects can kill them. as well IIRC Inquisitor grade equipment doesnt have built in storm bolteres or power fists so it will generally be defenseless besides standard equipment. as well im 99% sure the teleportator works only off of ships and needs psychic support to work properly.

Edit: but my original question kinda still stands. are we really ignore the fact that we cannot possibly interact with Tau neuro interface? (just remembered humans can kinda interact with eldar stuff)

It's feasible to assume we could reverse engineer our own interface or maybe just create a much more simplistic piloting method and in the process upgrade to bs 4? lol. Pretty funny to me that they have some advanced system integration and still only have bs 3.

IIRC it wouldn't be considering the whole thing is neuro based. if it was mechanical then yeah i dont think it would be an issue but, unless every riptide comes with a dead tau pilot that we can science on, its probably going to be a LOOOOOOOOONG time before we can figure out how to use any of it.

That's long been an annoyance of mine. They are soldiers trained literally from birth, with amazingly accurate weapons, combined with a vast array of tracking and aiming software, and their only BS3? Balance issues I suppose. But seriously, at least fething bodyguards should be BS4. Bodyguards are formed out of the commander old unit (in the original fluff anyway, not sure if that;s changed), so they have just as much experience as they do.

Dont the Tau havesight problems? They might be BS 2 without the system integration and human with e'm would be BS4

They have slightly slower focusing times because their pupils don't dialate (making them bad at close up things), but that shouldn't hurt their ability to aim.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Dont the Tau havesight problems? They might be BS 2 without the system integration and human with e'm would be BS4

They have depth perception problems IIRC which makes no sense since they can easily make lenses already... they really should trade the imperium for 4 eyes technomancy already. edit: was it focusing time?

Yeah, although I think the information came from xenology, so it's tentative canon. It would explain why a race trained to be soldiers from birth can't even match the untrained in CC though,

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Lasguns continue to function for centuries with zero maintenance, cleaning, or even care. Drop it in the sand, leave it buried for several centuries, pull it out, and it will work perfectly fine.

Wrong! Read imperial infantrymans uplifting primer. Why would there be a Lasgun maintenance kit (including oiling agent, muzzlerod, holy toolbox with repair instruments, spare lasgun stock, spare lasgun barrel and more) if it doesnt need maintenance? Also, why is it field stripable if it doesnt need maintenance? A maintenance free humanmade infantry weapon is completely unrealistic

You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Yeah, although I think the information came from xenology, so it's tentative canon. It would explain why a race trained to be soldiers from birth can't even match the untrained in CC though,

There is also the fact that the to the tabletop rules do not always correspond to the fluff for balance purposes.

 Wyzilla wrote:
You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

It doesnt matter what people in universe do with the book. If it wasnt necessary to have maintenaince and repair kit, they wouldn't have it, because it takes ressources. Therefore its required.
Lasguns have mechanisms, electronics and optics. All those require cleaning and/or maintenance in the real world, and apparently so, also in 40k.

Gaunt's Ghosts goes into some detail on the maintenance required of a lasgun. Though the specifics are going to vary based on the specific pattern of lasgun (i.e., if it has an actual trigger rather than a firing stud), some common themes are obvious.

The focusing lens needs to be kept clean, the power-pack contacts need to be kept clean, the trigger assembly (if present) needs to be kept clean, and whatever it has for a barrel (possibly sections between focusing lenses) needs to be kept free of carbon scoring, debris and otherwise cleaned.

So, yes, Lasguns have maintenance requirements... but nothing like the maintenance currently required for the M16A2, while permitting an individual soldier to carry ten times as much ammunition without need for resupply. The powerpacks recharge themselves being exposed to the sun, or connected to a generator... in a pinch, you can throw it into a fire (though this is noted as damaging to the pack, reducing its overall charge capacity). That is a level of miraculous technology and, even in modern warfare, it is the infantry that takes and holds territory.

Also, and perhaps most-importantly? All of these devices will eventually end up in the hands of other nation-states, regardless of who builds them first. Whether subject to theft, capture, industrial espionage, reverse-engineering, or whatever, no single country is going to maintain a monopoly on the Riptide, Power Armor, Wave Serpent, Baneblade or anything else.

Probably best if you don't have every Tom, Dick and Harry on the planet having super-weapons.

 Keep wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
You mean the book that people in-universe don't care about and treat as toilet paper? The only reason they even have a cleaning kit is because of Munitorium nonsense, however lasguns almost never break, and require zero care to function properly. The only thing you have to worry about is overcharging or destabilizing the battery packs, as that can turn them into extremely potent explosives.

It doesnt matter what people in universe do with the book. If it wasnt necessary to have maintenaince and repair kit, they wouldn't have it, because it takes ressources. Therefore its required.
Lasguns have mechanisms, electronics and optics. All those require cleaning and/or maintenance in the real world, and apparently so, also in 40k.

Except they don't, because we have at least one example of a lasgun surviving for centuries under the 'care" of Feral Worlders who think a vox machine is the Ark of the Covenant.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

 koooaei wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hyglar's Hellraiser wrote:
Lasguns. Because as already mentioned removing the need to supply a soldier with bullets and the effort involved in this is more important than most realise. Secondly (no less importantly) one of the primary reasons for the modern development of real world powered exoskeletons and smaller calibre assault rifles is to increase the firepower of a squad. Lasguns hold 60-90shots (dark heresy) and can be recharged. One aspect of the problem solved. End result: You would annihilate any other infantry force with the persistent firepower, you could improve training (by reducing costs) and you could increase the numbers of front line troops because of the logistics chain being simplified.
Also you could arm everyone on the planet. Something the ak started and the lasgun would finish. That would end well.

Unless that other infantry force would have chosen the mass production of Terminator Armour option. Think about that. It would make a single soldier stronger than a modern MBT. The lasgun is not going to give anywhere near as much firepower to an infantry squad as Terminator armour will.

... and since Terminator armor is, in and of itself, pointedly inferior to the Riptide...

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Ha, the one thing the military want is a battlefliet gothic battleship off course massive fire power, shields, ability to go to other systems to colonize or for resources, no current weaponry would be able to reach it and it would just vaporize and country that acts up.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

I doubt riptide would fit into any regular-sized human building or transport. What would it's point be if >90% firefights are in city-based or jungle enviroment.

It could fit wherever an Abrams could go if you have it crouch down.

Jungle fighting is great when your giant robot can crash through terrain that tanks can't- jungles make the Riptide better, not worse.

Against conventional forces, it does as well in cities, jet-packing from rooftop to rooftop, firing on forces below it.

Aaaaand Abrams is awful for city and jungle fights.

Your giant robots won't be able to crash through giant jungle trees. Even if they could it'd be one very ineffective use of resources and your location would get revealed easilly - means you're never fighting on your terms.

So how's jumping over roofs gona help you getting into buildings without demolishing them?

And it's not that much better than a tank in the open field. It might be more mobile but it's significantly higher => easy target.

Pretty useless piece of tech for modern military needs.

It would be a flyer. Or orbital platform. So many things on the list that wouldn't even be considered. Power armour would not be even a thought. We don't fight those kinds of wars. Everything would be unmanned.

How about and air caste orbital city? Or even better, a fortress station (a giant space station, with a population of a continent sized city).

Blackstone Fortress?

Terra forming capabilities. Hello moon, hello mars.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Blackstone Fortress?

Even better. Who doesn't want the power do blow up suns?