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When people forget this is just a Table Top Game

 GoliothOnline wrote:
When people forget this is just a Table Top Game

It's not a Table Top game it's a modeling hobby that happens to have rules.
You only go to games to show off how much disposable income you have.

The battles where nobody's models are hitting anything because of bad dice rolls. It's fun the first few times, but when it's turn 6 and only 4 models are down, I find the game kind of starts to get a bit dull. Not really any player's fault, just a thing that pops up from time to time.

 SkavenLord wrote:
The battles where nobody's models are hitting anything because of bad dice rolls. It's fun the first few times, but when it's turn 6 and only 4 models are down, I find the game kind of starts to get a bit dull. Not really any player's fault, just a thing that pops up from time to time.

According to the official results of the Iron Halo GT in Oklahoma, there was a match (Decurion Necrons mirror match) where nobody scored first blood. Let that sink in.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
When people come up with stupid houserules, or when people don't know the rules.

I have read my rulebook cover to cover twice, sure there are still things I don't have memorized, and I still make mistakes, but usually, thats the actually rules of a certain character or unit, I always mess up the assassin rules.

HOWEVER, if you don't know that you use majority toughness in units to shooting and cc attacks, and we have 10 minute rules debate (yes, this has happened... twice), I will be peaved.

or if you houserule something like the above, I will also be peaved.

I hate it when people DON'T house-rule rules that either don't work, or cause issues like the above 10 min argument, majority toughness is easy to remember people haha.

Assault armies all but vanished around here when 7th came out, so we allowed assaults out of a stationary transport, lo and behold we had assault armies turn up again, we also house ruled that terrain has levels again, minimum 25% of terrain must be blos, but that became moot as I built the terrain and it is very difficult to draw Los at ground level across the board, our tau player actually complained he would have to move to shoot!!! Then shut up when he realised his jsj was suddenly worth a damn lol.

But my biggest bugbear is people who treat the rulebook like this holy Bible, the whole thing is a mess of rules and no one is willing to fix the issues for their groups, just complain online about this being broken, or that rule not working, but at no point do they just go "hmmm, it doesn't work, let's talk to the guys and see how they think it should work, and change the rule."
It's your game people, play it how YOU like, not how the tiny tourney community wants you to.

When people can quote details of their super-heavy armaments ad-nauseum but don't know the BS of the thing, or it's I value, and haven't even bought the rules along with them to the game anyway.

Scatter dice. I think I've met 1-2 people in 20 years who know how to use them.

MarsNZ wrote:
When people can quote details of their super-heavy armaments ad-nauseum but don't know the BS of the thing, or it's I value, and haven't even bought the rules along with them to the game anyway.

Scatter dice. I think I've met 1-2 people in 20 years who know how to use them.

How can a scatter dice be confusing? Roll like a D6, dice points, blast moves. Dice doesn't point, blast stays.

I hate it when your codex has been nerfed into oblivion, making it impossible to win. And then to see the codex you most struggle against get a buff. Smooth moves, GW, smooth moves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niv-mizzet wrote:
That and people who complain about 40k games taking too long but take like 1.5 hours to start playing. (They wait til game time to build a list, get out those models etc, all while chatting.)

I get that every single game. I build lists long before the battle, bring exact points, have swapouts and extras ready in case of changes, and read up all relevant rules before the game. Makes my prep and turns much shorter.

Meanwhile, my opponent starts the game saying things like "oh, I left my *important unit* at home, now I have to start again".

 Selym wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
When people can quote details of their super-heavy armaments ad-nauseum but don't know the BS of the thing, or it's I value, and haven't even bought the rules along with them to the game anyway.

Scatter dice. I think I've met 1-2 people in 20 years who know how to use them.

How can a scatter dice be confusing? Roll like a D6, dice points, blast moves. Dice doesn't point, blast stays.

I hate it when your codex has been nerfed into oblivion, making it impossible to win. And then to see the codex you most struggle against get a buff. Smooth moves, GW, smooth moves.

Another Imperial Guard player, good to meet you son

For me another thing is the psychic phase. Sure, if you only have a few mastery levels - 5 at the most in a 2K game its not too bad. But when you know full well that I do not have one psyker in my army and decide to load out on 10+ levels in a a Librarian Conclave and other assorted psykers in a 1.5K game do not expect me to be impressed.

Just remembered one.

Poeple who argue over rules/models you used 4 days after the game ended, because they are sore loosers...

Just had a discussion with a guy, that apparently i used rules from 2 different codexes with my Possessed unit( after discussion i still don't understand where that comes from, the guy though that the +1A and Init mutation was actually 2 separate mutations, even though i've showed him the mutation chart in the KDK codex)...

 Vaktathi wrote:
I have a few pet peeves, as I'm sure everyone does.

First and foremost, I really hate "gimmicks", units and armies really built around abusing mechanics and rules interactions in ways they really weren't intended. 2+ rerollable saves, wound allocation games, armies built around spamming a single powerful weapon/ability as much as possible, etc.

A close second is armies that are built very contrary to the background. This can range from relatively mild things like Knights festooned in SM Chapter specific colors and heraldry and treated like just another Chapter vehicle, to majorly irritating things like or Skitarii being shoved en-masse into drop pods alongside a token Blood Angel force, or Knights and Dark Eldar running around together.

While people are free to build and ally how every they want, I agree. The fluff bunny in me feels like it's nails on a chalk board with I see stuff like that. It's even worse when they are playing unpainted (usually base minimun assembly) units this way. Show's to me that they are simply trying to get the most powerful they can. My SoB have an allied SM to get a landraider for my repenta. I have a techmarine and scout squad, but I use the old Arbites models to represent them, and the landradier is a FW MkIIb with SoB doors (from when it was Codex Witchunters and we had landraiders for inquisitors)

 edbradders wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Poeple having the rules on a tablet/phone that always seems to take longer to find then in a book. But at least its better than no Codex at all.

]I have mine on my phone but I have bookmarked all the pages with rules relevant to my army and a few general rules that may come up prior to playing a game. Much easier to find

I do understand your annoyance though, I've had an opponent who didn't bookmark his stuff and spent ages looking through his digital codex

As for people with their tablet codex's, I can understand the issues there, but as my SoB is tablet only, some of use have no choice.

 master of ordinance wrote:

For me another thing is the psychic phase. Sure, if you only have a few mastery levels - 5 at the most in a 2K game its not too bad. But when you know full well that I do not have one psyker in my army and decide to load out on 10+ levels in a a Librarian Conclave and other assorted psykers in a 1.5K game do not expect me to be impressed.

I dislike people who try to nerf the hell out of the Psychic phase. As a Daemon player, it's the one phase my codex is designed to dominate in, and my army relies heavily on having numerous augments & the ability to debuff enemy units... Plus the fact that even the majority of my shooting is limited to being various types of Witchfires & Nova powers!

I hate it when spoiled Imperial or Tau/Necron players decide to try and implement stupid gak like, "no more than 12 Power dice per phase", or "no more than 3 successful casts per turn" or similar BS.
How about we limit your Guard army to only shooting 3 units per turn? Or else limit the number of shots your army can shoot to only 40 per turn, because my Daemons simply cannot compete in the Shooting phase? totally It's unfair that Guard especially can just sit back with all their tanks & hoards of infantry and blast my army off the table, while I'm limited to just a Soul Grinder, a unit of Flamers and a Burning Chariot!

This silly idea grinds my gears even more as I favour a mono-Tzeentch army, (yes, I have a couple 'counts as' units that ironically use Nurgle rules), but overall, the Psychic phase is the one phase where the vast majority of my army's damage output potential is. Take that away from me, just because you're jealous that there's a phase your own Mary Sue army isn't tops in, and there's no point in me even playing a game as I won't be able to do much of anything beyond removing models from the table.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

For me another thing is the psychic phase. Sure, if you only have a few mastery levels - 5 at the most in a 2K game its not too bad. But when you know full well that I do not have one psyker in my army and decide to load out on 10+ levels in a a Librarian Conclave and other assorted psykers in a 1.5K game do not expect me to be impressed.

I dislike people who try to nerf the hell out of the Psychic phase. As a Daemon player, it's the one phase my codex is designed to dominate in, and my army relies heavily on having numerous augments & the ability to debuff enemy units... Plus the fact that even the majority of my shooting is limited to being various types of Witchfires & Nova powers!

I hate it when spoiled Imperial or Tau/Necron players decide to try and implement stupid gak like, "no more than 12 Power dice per phase", or "no more than 3 successful casts per turn" or similar BS.
How about we limit your Guard army to only shooting 3 units per turn? Or else limit the number of shots your army can shoot to only 40 per turn, because my Daemons simply cannot compete in the Shooting phase? totally It's unfair that Guard especially can just sit back with all their tanks & hoards of infantry and blast my army off the table, while I'm limited to just a Soul Grinder, a unit of Flamers and a Burning Chariot!

This silly idea grinds my gears even more as I favour a mono-Tzeentch army, (yes, I have a couple 'counts as' units that ironically use Nurgle rules), but overall, the Psychic phase is the one phase where the vast majority of my army's damage output potential is. Take that away from me, just because you're jealous that there's a phase your own Mary Sue army isn't tops in, and there's no point in me even playing a game as I won't be able to do much of anything beyond removing models from the table.

Im not complaining about Demons and I am most certainly not trying to implement silly rules.

As it is the player in question is a Space Marine player and given the volume of firepower that he is putting out and the fact that he will murder me in the CC phase bringing 20+ levels of mastery is just a pure dick move.
It pisses me off because at the same moment I have him complaining about my army and saying that my shooting is OP because 10 Veterans, one whom has a Heavy Bolter, managed to kill 2 Marines when FRFSRF at point blank range.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

For me another thing is the psychic phase. Sure, if you only have a few mastery levels - 5 at the most in a 2K game its not too bad. But when you know full well that I do not have one psyker in my army and decide to load out on 10+ levels in a a Librarian Conclave and other assorted psykers in a 1.5K game do not expect me to be impressed.

I dislike people who try to nerf the hell out of the Psychic phase. As a Daemon player, it's the one phase my codex is designed to dominate in, and my army relies heavily on having numerous augments & the ability to debuff enemy units... Plus the fact that even the majority of my shooting is limited to being various types of Witchfires & Nova powers!

I hate it when spoiled Imperial or Tau/Necron players decide to try and implement stupid gak like, "no more than 12 Power dice per phase", or "no more than 3 successful casts per turn" or similar BS.
How about we limit your Guard army to only shooting 3 units per turn? Or else limit the number of shots your army can shoot to only 40 per turn, because my Daemons simply cannot compete in the Shooting phase? totally It's unfair that Guard especially can just sit back with all their tanks & hoards of infantry and blast my army off the table, while I'm limited to just a Soul Grinder, a unit of Flamers and a Burning Chariot!

This silly idea grinds my gears even more as I favour a mono-Tzeentch army, (yes, I have a couple 'counts as' units that ironically use Nurgle rules), but overall, the Psychic phase is the one phase where the vast majority of my army's damage output potential is. Take that away from me, just because you're jealous that there's a phase your own Mary Sue army isn't tops in, and there's no point in me even playing a game as I won't be able to do much of anything beyond removing models from the table.

Im not complaining about Demons and I am most certainly not trying to implement silly rules.

As it is the player in question is a Space Marine player and given the volume of firepower that he is putting out and the fact that he will murder me in the CC phase bringing 20+ levels of mastery is just a pure dick move.
It pisses me off because at the same moment I have him complaining about my army and saying that my shooting is OP because 10 Veterans, one whom has a Heavy Bolter, managed to kill 2 Marines when FRFSRF at point blank range.

Grey Knights can put just as much hurt in the assault phase, but have no choice but to bring psykers.. everything is a psyker! But I get what you're saying. You're referring to how he is abusing the formation to have an actual psychic phase with a none psychic army

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Just remembered one.

Poeple who argue over rules/models you used 4 days after the game ended, because they are sore loosers...

Just had a discussion with a guy, that apparently i used rules from 2 different codexes with my Possessed unit( after discussion i still don't understand where that comes from, the guy though that the +1A and Init mutation was actually 2 separate mutations, even though i've showed him the mutation chart in the KDK codex)...

I'd rather not have a 15 minute debate on how to rule something in-game. Agree on how to handle it for that game, then research it later.

Afterwards, if I look something up and see that we did something wrong, I have no problem telling you so that we don't do it wrong again.

Unpainted armies. I don't mean the shiny new army that you've just bought, I mean the one that you've had for 18 months and still can't be arsed to get a spray can out and even undercoat.

I feel better for that.

I used to be guilty of the grey horde. Now I refuse to play a unit that hasn't got any paint on it.

Game issues:
- Too much random. It would be nice just to make a choice.
- Points do not reflect capability: no balance.
- Too easy for a model or unit to vastly augment another that is not reflected in the points cost.
- Too much decided by army list of vastly different power levels: bad for pickup games.
- Rules wording is written in a casual / entertainment style that does not lend itself well to concise rules interpretation.
- Leaning toward "pay to win".

Culture / people issues:
- Unpainted and sometimes unassembled armies accepted as "ok".
- Game seems to really attract or foster the "Scrub" mentality. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub.
- Game seems to really attract or foster the "WAAC" player due to ease of unclear rule interpretation exploits and reference material being expensive to collect and with a wide spread (can "make it up as you go" with a good possibility of not being caught).
- Old GW vs. new GW keeps coming back to haunt them: was an engaged active participant with customers, now only wants to be a provider of "goods" and discouraging dialogue with them.

It is only usable playing with friends and we "forge the rules" into something we can play.

 kronk wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Just remembered one.

Poeple who argue over rules/models you used 4 days after the game ended, because they are sore loosers...

Just had a discussion with a guy, that apparently i used rules from 2 different codexes with my Possessed unit( after discussion i still don't understand where that comes from, the guy though that the +1A and Init mutation was actually 2 separate mutations, even though i've showed him the mutation chart in the KDK codex)...

I'd rather not have a 15 minute debate on how to rule something in-game. Agree on how to handle it for that game, then research it later.

Afterwards, if I look something up and see that we did something wrong, I have no problem telling you so that we don't do it wrong again.

Me and my friends have a standing rule across all games that any rules disagreement that can't be settled with an immediate "nope because XYZ" is settled with a (usually) 2d6 roll-off. One of us then usually bothers to research it at some point over the next couple of days, and we'll pass the info around. This rule is especially helpful when it comes to games where we don't all own our own copies of the rulebook. Ok, this wouldn't work in tournament play or anything, but in that situation (and often while casually gaming at our FLGS) there is always at least one person around vastly more knowledgeable than us who is happy to set us straight.


As for the main topic:

My main pet peeve in pretty much any wargame is that people tend to forget it's a game. Sure, we'd all like to win. Everyone wants to win or they wouldn't be playing, but I'd much rather have a good day with good company, joking and playing and everyone having fun! We tend to be a little lenient with cetain rules, or if we've forgotten to roll one dice (although we wont take any off if too many were rolled due to not calling things like rugged construction in DW) we'll allow it to be chucked into the pool. None of us have the time or really the desire to become walking rulebooks knowing every single rule of every game we play, we're just there to have a bit of a laugh!

2+ rerollable saves, wound allocation games, armies built around spamming a single powerful weapon/ability as much as possible, etc.

I mean come on lol. ''Not meant to be played like that". It's not like it's a rule bending combo or it's hard to find lol.

What gets under my skin are these few things in order

Cheeting: it is just a game but if you feel the need to cheet it makes me want to break your teeth in

question every 5 second guy: (this excludes new guys) the ones that every 5 second has to yell your name acrost the store (when you are like 5 ft away) to ask a question that would have taken them a total of 10 seconds to look up (what do assault grenades do?! Can I shoot that unit?!) drives me fething bonkers!!!

the tries to put you down guy/better than you guy/gets way into the game aka TFG: the one that tryes to make you feel like a gak bag because he killed one of your units he is a far superior commander, and gets angry/upset when you kill one of his units or such. (horrable dice, roles you units are OP ext ext...)

lastly its not a pet peeve but It always breaks my heart to see the guy lose the will to play. I have been playing a long time and we have all seen someone get there hobby broken the dull eyes as they shuffle models off the table and it saddens me. and when you playsome one who has had the will beaten out of them you feel bad and the game is no fun... just me but in my 16 years of playing I would rather lose and have some one be happy and still want to play rather than win and lose a player forever

 Formosa wrote:

I hate it when people DON'T house-rule rules that either don't work, or cause issues like the above 10 min argument, majority toughness is easy to remember people haha.

Assault armies all but vanished around here when 7th came out, so we allowed assaults out of a stationary transport, lo and behold we had assault armies turn up again, we also house ruled that terrain has levels again, minimum 25% of terrain must be blos, but that became moot as I built the terrain and it is very difficult to draw Los at ground level across the board, our tau player actually complained he would have to move to shoot!!! Then shut up when he realised his jsj was suddenly worth a damn lol.

But my biggest bugbear is people who treat the rulebook like this holy Bible, the whole thing is a mess of rules and no one is willing to fix the issues for their groups, just complain online about this being broken, or that rule not working, but at no point do they just go "hmmm, it doesn't work, let's talk to the guys and see how they think it should work, and change the rule."
It's your game people, play it how YOU like, not how the tiny tourney community wants you to.

I'm jealous of your game group. You sound like you get a good amount of games in (I'm old, job, etc... lucky if I get in one game a month). You do a good job implementing good house rules that make your games more fun for everybody. It sounds like your group is playing the game the way it's meant to be played I wish you lived near me so I could join in.

As for people with their tablet codex's, I can understand the issues there, but as my SoB is tablet only, some of use have no choice.

I printed my SOB codex out

My pet peeve is when the guy you are playing against get so upset that another army is beating his army and becomes a sore loser about.

Someone oh is convinced by his codex that his army is the strongest and has the best tech and on the table top that means they shouldn't lose.

Talks crap about your army when you are losing and blames the dice when losing (can only blame the dice for so long).

Can never beat you 1v1 and when in a 2v1 game, goes on the brag about being great and says " I beat this player X to X"

The guy who tables you by T3, and then complains his army does not have enough firepower / that your army is too durable.

Happened three games in a row for me.

 kronk wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Just remembered one.

Poeple who argue over rules/models you used 4 days after the game ended, because they are sore loosers...

Just had a discussion with a guy, that apparently i used rules from 2 different codexes with my Possessed unit( after discussion i still don't understand where that comes from, the guy though that the +1A and Init mutation was actually 2 separate mutations, even though i've showed him the mutation chart in the KDK codex)...

I'd rather not have a 15 minute debate on how to rule something in-game. Agree on how to handle it for that game, then research it later.

Afterwards, if I look something up and see that we did something wrong, I have no problem telling you so that we don't do it wrong again.

There is a difference in doing something wrong, and you find out/remember it a few days after, then there is nothing wrong, you did use the unit/rule how it is described/intended and then the guy comes back and says that you played it wrong...

i mean how can i play the Possesssed wrongs?, the mutation says that you get +1 A and Init, so whats so confusing about it?...

Crappy no fun lists... Tau... Yeah I said it!

Main thing I hate is "single save thrower" I have a friend who does the slow task of rolling saves one by one for his heroes which annoys the gak out of me for the fact that I play orks and we do a ton of wounds! One time a horde of boyz caught and assaulted his chapter master and my orks did like 50 wounds so he rolled them all single! Me and my other friend finally yelled at him when he got to the 25th dice...

 Talizvar wrote:
Game issues:
- Too much random. It would be nice just to make a choice.
- Points do not reflect capability: no balance.
- Too easy for a model or unit to vastly augment another that is not reflected in the points cost.
- Too much decided by army list of vastly different power levels: bad for pickup games.
- Rules wording is written in a casual / entertainment style that does not lend itself well to concise rules interpretation.
- Leaning toward "pay to win".

Culture / people issues:
- Unpainted and sometimes unassembled armies accepted as "ok".
- Game seems to really attract or foster the "Scrub" mentality. http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub.
- Game seems to really attract or foster the "WAAC" player due to ease of unclear rule interpretation exploits and reference material being expensive to collect and with a wide spread (can "make it up as you go" with a good possibility of not being caught).
- Old GW vs. new GW keeps coming back to haunt them: was an engaged active participant with customers, now only wants to be a provider of "goods" and discouraging dialogue with them.

It is only usable playing with friends and we "forge the rules" into something we can play.

What Max Headroom said.

People who ask for a game, and then start deploying while I'm writing my list.

People who ONLY write their list after you have started deploying. Actually happens. Cannot get the guy to stop doing it, as he cannot understand the concept of tailoring.

Clarification:

I'm talking a friendly game where I agree to the game and sit in a corner (honestly my natural habitat) to write my list, and suddenly I look over and see the guy rolling for deployment and psychic powers, ect...