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 Freakazoitt wrote:
It heard, AK was jammed after several shots. How it is possbile?

I've had my '74 hiccup on Vympel factory 5.45mm ammunition before, two stuck cases and a third where the case-head got torn off. It's possible to jam an AK, just harder than a lot of other designs and usually a lot easier to clear.

The Legion d'honneur is a general purpose award for merit that can be given for military or civilian actions. It is normally only given to French citizens.

The awards this time to four foreigners are a significant thanks for the prevention of another gun massacre by (presumably) Islamist extremists.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Legion d'honneur is a general purpose award for merit that can be given for military or civilian actions. It is normally only given to French citizens.

The awards this time to four foreigners are a significant thanks for the prevention of another gun massacre by (presumably) Islamist extremists.

I'm guessing nobody here is buying the suspect's "I'm a homeless man who found a case in a park with an AK-47 inside. I wanted to rob a train" story lol.

I wouldn't if I was on the jury, unless some very good evidence was brought forwards to prove that claim.

Spetulhu wrote:
The US Medal of Honor is for military service only, isn't it? The French can give their Legion for civilian or military service.

A foreigner, military or not, who did something like this in the US would probably receive a Presidential or Congress medal, not a military one.

Civilians and foregners are eligible for the Presidential medal of Freedom

Not as swanky, but still pretty nice


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 Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
The US Medal of Honor is for military service only, isn't it? The French can give their Legion for civilian or military service.

A foreigner, military or not, who did something like this in the US would probably receive a Presidential or Congress medal, not a military one.

Civilians and foreigners are eligible for the Presidential medal of Freedom

Not as swanky, but still pretty nice

EDIT: Spelling

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Im getting fething tired of these mother fething Terrorists on this mother fething train!

Exalt


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Gunman says he just wanted to rob people and is not a terrorist.

I am sure we all believe this.

Because most robbers are known for shooting up their victims before trying to rob them.....

It's not a totally unreasonable claim. A French passenger spotted him and tried to disarm him, shots were fired and people started running. Maybe he panicked? It wouldn't be the first robber who lost his script when things didn't go as he planned.

Which is totally why he took 8 magazines, a pistol and a knife.
He certainly wasn't planning on using them

He also waited until the train crossed the French border, has known Islamist leanings and was a vocal supporter of Jihad on the watch list of several; intelligence agencies.
He also stripped ogff much of his clothing which would make a getaway less plausible.

Looks like a regular criminal to me.

I love the whole "er yea I just found this AK."

I'm sure he did find it.



Right where the support cell placed it for his retrieval.

 Frazzled wrote:
I love the whole "er yea I just found this AK."

In Belgium, no less.
I was not aware soviet-era assault rifles with spare ammunition were scattered all around Brussels.

Indeed. I suddenly have a greater desire to go to Belgium. For the waffles...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I love the whole "er yea I just found this AK."

In Belgium, no less.
I was not aware soviet-era assault rifles with spare ammunition were scattered all around Brussels.

It's not "soviet-era". AK47 variants are still made today around the world. They are favored by many groups of freedom fighters and terrorists along with quite a few third world governments. The reason being that the AK47 is easy to make, easy to work on and a reliable design, which still remains usable even when poorly made or maintained. The government of the USSR basically gave the design to any country who asked with vaguely communist leanings, and many of those (including the USSR) handed the guns out like candy to anyone who they thought would support them. After a while the design was so widely available, and so easy to back engineer, that they are made all over the world, of greater or lesser quality. It is estimated that 1 in 5 of ALL firearms in the world at the moment is some Kalashnikov variant.

Is it possible that he found it? Yes, I would say so. AK's are not exactly rare guns, and are used allot by terrorists and organized crime. Is it likely? Well, I guess that it will be easy to pull apart his story through background investigation.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Is it possible that he found it? Yes, I would say so. AK's are not exactly rare guns

Don't forget that he also found a pistol, magazines for the firearms, ammo, and a box cutter.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Legion d'honneur is a general purpose award for merit that can be given for military or civilian actions. It is normally only given to French citizens.

The awards this time to four foreigners are a significant thanks for the prevention of another gun massacre by (presumably) Islamist extremists.

Very nice of them. Good on everyone involved for preventing what could have been a horrible tragedy.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Is it possible that he found it? Yes, I would say so. AK's are not exactly rare guns

Don't forget that he also found a pistol, magazines for the firearms, ammo, and a box cutter.

It's quite possible that he found weapons that intended for someone else. If someone had done a dead drop between terrorist cells for example. Homeless guy comes along, searching bins or whatever, and finds them. Unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility. If that is discounted then so is the possibility that there could be another person intent on harm who will just need to obtain more weapons.

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

It sounds like Steve Steveson is

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Is it possible that he found it? Yes, I would say so. AK's are not exactly rare guns

Don't forget that he also found a pistol, magazines for the firearms, ammo, and a box cutter.

It's quite possible that he found weapons that intended for someone else. If someone had done a dead drop between terrorist cells for example. Homeless guy comes along, searching bins or whatever, and finds them. Unlikely, but not beyond the realms of possibility. If that is discounted then so is the possibility that there could be another person intent on harm who will just need to obtain more weapons.

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

I guess it is equally as likely that said homeless guy is on the terror watch lists of a couple different countries and also that he decides to take his newly found-by-chance weapons and rob a train instead of holding up a liquor store or drug dealer or random person in the area he typically hangs out in.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
Is it possible that he found it? Yes, I would say so. AK's are not exactly rare guns

Don't forget that he also found a pistol, magazines for the firearms, ammo, and a box cutter.

I once found $20 on the floor at the mall, on the food court.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The Legion d'honneur is a general purpose award for merit that can be given for military or civilian actions. It is normally only given to French citizens.

The awards this time to four foreigners are a significant thanks for the prevention of another gun massacre by (presumably) Islamist extremists.

I'm guessing nobody here is buying the suspect's "I'm a homeless man who found a case in a park with an AK-47 inside. I wanted to rob a train" story lol.

While its certainly possible, it would be a case of truth being way stranger than fiction and I doubt any Jury would buy that story unless there was like video surveillance of him stumbling across the guncase. And even then, it would be pretty easy to just say he was picking up the gun from a deaddrop and has an accomplice out there.

 Steve steveson wrote:
It's quite possible that he found weapons that intended for someone else.

Anything is possible, and if the standard for things was "is it possible?" no one would ever be found guilty of anything. I don't mind speculation but you did leave a lot out of what was found, which is what I was referring to; he didn't just find an AK.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

Shouldn't that be true of pretty much any instance?

Ouze wrote:
I once found $20 on the floor at the mall, on the food court.

Ah but did you also find a $10, a $5, and a $1 also at the same place at the same time?

One of the American guys is coming back to the states and apparently lives one town over from me. Going by what I've seen on social media, that guy is about to be avalanched in booty propositions.

Its good to have heroes, even if its just for a little while.


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 Steve steveson wrote:

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

If you go on a train and shoot unarmed civilians (which this guy did) and slash up unarmed civilians with a blade (which this guy did), then you are a terrorist. Period. Full stop.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

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 Steve steveson wrote:

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

If you go on a train and shoot unarmed civilians (which this guy did) and slash up unarmed civilians with a blade (which this guy did), then you are a terrorist. Period. Full stop.

No. Just no. Terrorism requires intent, if a crazy dude walks onto a train and shoots a bunch of people that doesn't make him a terrorist. There has to be an intent to terrorize the populace (hence the name).


This guy's totally a terrorist though.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:
It's quite possible that he found weapons that intended for someone else.

Anything is possible, and if the standard for things was "is it possible?" no one would ever be found guilty of anything. I don't mind speculation but you did leave a lot out of what was found, which is what I was referring to; he didn't just find an AK.
.

Asking if something is possible is part of the legal system and how we test "beyond reasonable doubt". If something is a possible alternative then you have reasonable doubt. If you base it on speculation, which is all the terrorist claims were at the time (more evidence has since come out) then that is a very bad legal system.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

Shouldn't that be true of pretty much any instance?

It should be, but it isn't. Look at some of the witch hunts we have had.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

If you go on a train and shoot unarmed civilians (which this guy did) and slash up unarmed civilians with a blade (which this guy did), then you are a terrorist. Period. Full stop.

"terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
One of the American guys is coming back to the states and apparently lives one town over from me. Going by what I've seen on social media, that guy is about to be avalanched in booty propositions.

Its good to have heroes, even if its just for a little while.


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 Steve steveson wrote:

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

If you go on a train and shoot unarmed civilians (which this guy did) and slash up unarmed civilians with a blade (which this guy did), then you are a terrorist. Period. Full stop.

It only makes you a terrorist if you are bent on some socio-political agenda. You can be a violent criminal (mental issue? Who knows? I'm not qualified to speak on that) and do something like this. History is full of mass murderers and serial killers without a political agenda.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

Hopefully the police do a thorough investigation and are not swayed too much by the media or the conviction that he must be a terrorist.

If you go on a train and shoot unarmed civilians (which this guy did) and slash up unarmed civilians with a blade (which this guy did), then you are a terrorist. Period. Full stop.

"terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/
noun
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."

the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

There's a reason the term "narcoterrorism" exists.

Terrorism does not strictly equate to politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcoterrorism

Narcoterrorism had definite political goals:

In its original context, narcoterrorism is understood to mean the attempts of narcotics traffickers to influence the policies of a government or a society through violence and intimidation, and to hinder the enforcement of anti-drug laws by the systematic threat or use of such violence. Pablo Escobar's violence in his dealings with the Colombian government is probably one of the best known and best documented examples of narcoterrorism.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason the term "narcoterrorism" exists.

Terrorism does not strictly equate to politics.

Yeah, but... you're using a different word to explain how the original word has multiple meanings... which actually solidifies the case that the original word has a specific meaning.

Absent the rationale for why he tried to do what he tried to, it seems a little early to bust out the T word. Wait, the other T word.

Is it?

Sure it has side effects of political changes, by the ultimate goal is to further the drug business, not cause any political changes for the sake of political change.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Is it?

Sure it has side effects of political changes, by the ultimate goal is to further the drug business, not cause any political changes for the sake of political change.

The drug business was impacted by political actions. The Traficantes wanted to change those political actions to further their business. Thus, narcoterrorism. It is explicitly a targeted action in order to drive political change.

Ouze wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason the term "narcoterrorism" exists.

Terrorism does not strictly equate to politics.

Yeah, but... you're using a different word to explain how the original word has multiple meanings... which actually solidifies the case that the original word has a specific meaning.

Most words that are politically charged have "multiple meanings". To pull from strictly Dictionary.com, here are the definitions of terrorism:

noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

There is also a British dictionary definition for terrorism:

noun
1.
systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve some goal
2.
the act of terrorizing
3.
the state of being terrorized

The reason I bring up the term "narcoterrorism" is because that while there is a bit of a political element to narcoterrorism--law enforcement generally defines narcoterrorism in a different manner than what it seems some here are under the impression it means.

Page 23 "Terrorism and Organized Hate Crime: Intelligence Gathering, Analysis, and Investigations" 2nd Edition by Michael R. Ronczkowski wrote:
Narcoterrorism---Terrorist acts conducted in an attempt to divert attention from illegal drug and narcotic operations. This term is usually applied to groups that use the drug trade to fund terrorism.

 Steve steveson wrote:
Asking if something is possible is part of the legal system and how we test "beyond reasonable doubt". If something is a possible alternative then you have reasonable doubt. If you base it on speculation, which is all the terrorist claims were at the time (more evidence has since come out) then that is a very bad legal system.

As you say it can't just be doubt it has to be a reasonable doubt, and accidentally finding all those weapons and then going after people on a train isn't really all that reasonable. It is possible, just not reasonably so.