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"Well again your not going build a tier 1 list from this codex alone, not in the competitive meta. You will need to allied in other factions and formations to create good synergy, that is what so good about playing Imperials. "

Why? Tau, Eldar, SM, DA, Necrons can? Sure DA, SM, and Necrons might only have one formation that can but Eldar and Tau have multiple lists. Was it so much to ask that SW players have a competitive build as well?

Pretre, why would you say Blood Claws are good with Wulfen? The best bonus +1 attack BC's can use because they have rage. The best Blood Claw units, Skyclaws or swiftclaws cant take advantage of hammer of wrath, not that a few str 4 hit and run rolls are going to do much, BCs arent good enough that folks are going to take 15 of them in a competitive game, so the basic 5 man squad really benefits nothing. Now, if they made all the bonuses stack with the BCs abilities, you might have seen more on the table.

I think GW almost scored a win with the IronWolves formation. If they had included predators as 0-3 in their formation and allowed them to upgrade for free (so 75 pt predators) you might have seen something semi competitive. It would also make sense as they have the advantage in tank shocking, right now what are you going to tank shock with a rhino or landspeeder?

Standard blood claws can get Reroll charge and how, dune strider or furious charge on hunt, Reroll wounds init 5 or hit when dead. None of that is bad for a 12 ot model. And that doesn't count the 7+ roll.

Again, a unit of 5 BCs, even on the charge is 20 attacks, hitting on 4's, 10 hits, most often wounding on 4's, 5, reroll 5, get 2.5 more. I understand what you are saying and in theory you'd think that's really good for 12 pts, but it isn't. Because they BCs have to be in range, you have to take a large squad of them and lets face it, if you are taking 10 BCs is it not really worth it to spend 20 more pts and get GHs with ws/bs 4 and 2 special weapons? Then on top of that you are spending close to 500 pts for those 2 wulfen squads (so you can get 7, not 7+). Again, I will say its disappointing. Go into the 40k army lists, youll see more Eldar and Tau lists since the Wulfen book dropped than SW lists. I tried to create a list, even on Warseer I had over 100 views and zero recommendations. On Warseer there is one army list besides mine with I think 1 response. If these new formations were broken (there would be a ton of lists) if they were creative where you could create some very tactical lists with neat tricks, there would be plenty of people posting- but at the end of the day there really isnt anything more than what the SW original dex and Champions of Fenris offer. Its still a pre 7th edition codex on the power scale, capable of playing with Dark Eldar, Nids, IG and such.

Oh I'm not saying it's eldar good, but it's cool and I'm going to try out some wulfen and bc shenanigans.

I've been having a lot of success with the Blackmanes paired with Ironwolves. Eldar still give me trouble but what do you expect from the top codex? Are you going to win LVO or Adepticon with SW? Probably not. If you're wanting to do that you play Eldar, Daemons, Tau or White Scars.

As far as feedback on your list, try the SW sub-forum on Bolter and Chainsword.

Here's what I'm going to be running this season:

Walking Wolves - Take 2



WCSF



Ironwolves Greatpack

WGBL with Black Death - 75

10 Blood Claws with Flamer in Rhino with Dozer, SB, HKM, EA - 160

(10 Blood Claws with Flamer in Rhino with Dozer, SB, HKM, EA - 160) or (20 Fenrisian Wolves in 2 packs, Wolfkin - 160)

9 Blood Claws with Flamer in Rhino with Dozer, SB, HKM, EA - 148

Land Speeder with Typhoon and HB - 50

10 Grey Hunters with Banner, Melta x2 and 6 CCW in Rhino with Dozer, SB, HKM, EA - 232

2 LF with Melta/Combi-Melta in Drop Pod with DWL/LB - 95



Murderpack

5 Wulfen with SFAL, Axe, TH/SS - 180

5 Wulfen with SFAL, Axe, PL with FC - 180





Deathpack

WL with TWM, PF/SS - 195

4 TWC with PF/BP, SS/BP, BP/CCW, SS/WC - 235

5 GH with Plasma, Combi-Plasma in Drop Pod - 140



1850

Quick question: is taking 2 HB Servitors in a COTGW detachment good for low points cost TWC Deathstar lists?

 Matthew wrote:
Quick question: is taking 2 HB Servitors in a COTGW detachment good for low points cost TWC Deathstar lists?

It is okay. Most of the time you want a cheap iron priest, but you can't use servitors to do that.

I was thinking of using them to fill out the 2 mandatory elites slots

If you're taking an Iron Priest in the detachment then the servitors will not count towards the required elites. If you're not taking an Iron Priest then you can use servitors to fill the required elites slots.

 Matthew wrote:
I was thinking of using them to fill out the 2 mandatory elites slots

You can certainly do that to get a WGBL or WL into another list.

Also, Look at the Deathpack as a good quick dip to get just good stuff.

col_impact wrote:
Do any of you guys have the iPad version of the Space Wolves codex?

Yea I do, how come?

 lessthanjeff wrote:
I'm not sold by any of the formations, but I think running the Wulfen out of an escape hatch will be a very effective tactic. The hatch will extend their threat range in the first turn and help them survive the first turn if you're going 2nd.

I think this is a pretty great idea to add to our pre existing lists, but otherwise I agree that the options are disappointing. Im thinking of selling the limited edition because its just a huge let down. I really don't see myself using anything besides murderpack and general wulfen.

The formations are definitely lack luster, I was foolishly hoping things like wolf scouts may get their BEL ability back as a formation bonus or at least something, maybe shrouded first turn? Anything really to make them worth their cost, its beyond stupid now that almost every other marine book (sorry blood angels) have the same unit in their troops but at a 3ppm discount with a sweet dedicated transport. Give us a storm at least lol.

Dark Angels don't get cool Land Speeder Storms either! This is an outrage!

I wish Blood Claws could take Land Speeders or just Wolf Scouts. Anything to make 2 Servitors less clunky as a Mandatory slots for the 2 Detachment options. (4 HQs and 2 Elties OR 6 HQs and 2 Troops)

But at least DA scouts are both troops and appropriately cost. There is no way a current wolf scout is worth 14ppm, and they sure as hell should no longer be elites lol. But I will freely admit I am pissing into the wind here, they are unlikely to be "fixed." I'll still use them but I wish they were less situational.

True. For what it's work Blood Claws for 60 pts aren't too shabby with their Counter Attack and Rage and still in Power Armor. Yes, you are on WS/BS 3, but with that many more attacks, it's actually better than a standard tactical (IMO).

I'd agree but for the fact that they need a vessel in order to get there. Once you use a land raider or stormwolf their cost is now much to high.

You don't need a vessel to get into assaults. You don't even need to assault with them. 5 marines in Power Armor are decently tough and even more annoying when you sit them in ruins. If you are using them as scoring units that sit on objectives, they'll do fine. I have a weird perspective when it comes to Tacticals. I don't think they do anything. 5 Bolters in rapid fire range barely kill anything of worth. If they do wounds, awesome, but I almost consider them similar to Drop Pod Storm Bolters. If they manage to do something, yay! If not, they are tacticals. It's what I originally expected.

Now when it comes to Blood Claws, they are essentially the same thing to me. They are just as "useless", just as durable, but 10 pt cheaper and gain bonuses when being charged and more bonuses when doing the charging. Play them back and I will almost guarantee you someone will come for them and they will get their chance to charge something. If the opponent keeps shooting at it with 3+ armor and 4++ ruins (ideally), then they are soaking up way more than 60 pts worth of fire power. It's a win/win.

Our local tournaments always do a Maelstrom and Eternal War mission at once, so it's really important to snatch objectives. There's no First Blood and max one of the games is with kill points.

I might try a Turn 1 charge fest combined with MSU:

Deathpack:
Lord on TWC, Helm of Durfast, claw, hammer, 2 wolves
3 TWC, 2 shields, hammer, claw
10 GHs, 2 melter, CCWs, pod

Aux:
min Wolfkin

Ironwolves
Battle leader, TDA, claw, shield, 2 wolves
4 TH/SS termis in crusader

Long Fang Ancient with melter + pack leader with combi-melter in pod

5 BCs, flamer, pod
5 BCS, Razorback

4 Speeders

I feel a bit unconfortable with only 3 units that don't die to a stiff breeze though. On the other hand I always keep running out of units if I don't do MSU.

Saythings wrote:You don't need a vessel to get into assaults. You don't even need to assault with them. I

except you said earlier...

Saythings wrote:True. For what it's work Blood Claws for 60 pts aren't too shabby with their Counter Attack and Rage and still in Power Armor. Yes, you are on WS/BS 3, but with that many more attacks, it's actually better than a standard tactical (IMO).

I feel like your moving the target on me here. If your boasting their combat abilities then surely they need a way to get into assault which was stated in my response.

As for using them as backfield campers I still disagree, they are useless in that capacity since they are terrible in low numbers at assaulting, and even worse at range, they only have BS3 pistols for christ sake. Blood claws have literally never been good going all the way back to 2nd edition. They are simply outdone by grey hunters in every roll.

@Red Corsair, I don't believe I'm moving the target from my perspective. I run troops to fill troop slots. Not to actually achieve any sort of supremacy on the board. I'd still use them as backfield scorers, obviously this would change from game to game, but it's hard to remove Power Armor in cover (generally I place my objectives near ruins, if available). That being said, if my opponent wants to dedicate shooting towards them, its going to take more than 60 points worth of firepower to remove them. If they want to assault my Blood Claws or work their way towards them, I'm going to get my 15 to 20 attacks in order from them to claim my objective. They can't score on it unless they move towards them.

It's been awhile since I haven't got my backfield campers in h2h. I'm not claiming Blood Claws to be good. Or even comparative to Grey Hunters. I run my troops as naked as I can and I'm generally only doing so to squeeze in more Iron Priests.

In that regard, I'd argue Blood Claws are "better" than Grey Hunters. As I have a very specific niche in my list building.

Maybe I was a bit clearer that time

No worries mate, I enjoy a good back and forth. To me I'd personally only run them in a razorback/rhino with a flamer and maybe a combi flamer as a min squad. That way you also get mobility and another obsec unit on the cheap with the ability to tank shock. I just don't like the idea of paying even 60 points for a hide away unit with only 5 t4 wounds. My other armies are very lethal and I usually build all my lists with units able to scrub objective campers from cover which is what I am concerned with, A rhino does help though.

I personally like grey hunters more though even in that roll since we are only talking 10 points on a 5 man squad, except now I can run a melta or plasma if I need it in the list but also because you double their shots within 12 and can engage things from 24 when blood claws can only hope they roll decent saves.

Honestly though, for a cheaper back field unit you could always take long fangs with a rhino, 2 guys is even easier to hide and you can always put a heavy weapon on one or still take a flamer and just shoot from the hatch.

Never realized you can could only take 2 Long Fangs as a unit! haha.

I mentioned it briefly before, I'm trying to fill CotGW's Elite slots OR WUD's Troop slots as cheap as possible for Iron Priest slots. This being the case, 5 'durable' bodies for 60 pts with a 'decent' counter assault base isn't too shabby. I don't plan on ever adding additional points to my min. squads, so having the options Grey Hunter's have isn't necessarily an advantage.

You did mention that your other armies have ways of clearing back field objective campers, but some armies don't. They also have to get by my Wolfstar unit. Short of Deepstrike and Flyers, it's quite difficult to get passed the star to kill the Blood Claws. On averages, Blood Claws only slightly lose combat when getting assaulted by Tactical equivs, but do much better when the assault goes the other way around.

Everyone has their preferred units so it's toss up

I just posted 3 lists in one post. I could really use the help as I am new to SW.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/684695.page

I'm getting some more Thunderwolves a week from now, what else should I get? I've heard people saying Librarius Conclave is good...

I'm currently working on my Wolfstar. Finally finished my TFC and 25 Cyberwolves (only need 16, I got carried away haha).

To add to Matthew's question, I'm trying out 2 lists. One with Ultramarine Libby Clave and one with WS LC.

The first includes Tiggy and 3 Biker Libbies. This is for the best chances for Invisibility. It's needed with 1730/1850 is in 1 unit. Also, this is my Nova list (in the works). For ITC, I'm practicing using Tiggy and 2 Biker Libbies. I use the extra points for Rhinos for my DA Scout (Obsec).

The second option (WS) includes 4 Libbies on Bikes. This option is a little more risky as I have less chances of rolling up Invisibility but it gives me 4 more hit and run sources. It also gives me flexibility when it comes to Splitting off 1 IP, 4 Wolves and a Libby for MSU armies later into the game.

Personally, I like the LC with 4 sources of powers and the bikes allow me to spread out if I want to cast more than 2-3 powers (from the channeling libby). RAW/RAI argument limits how many powers you can cast on a 2+. That being said, I always assume I get the lesser result (meaning I'll only cast 3 from Tiggy or 2 from a normal biker).

Against daemon armies I like the option of casting Invisibility and Banishment on 2+, then rolling up 2-3 more banishments to gimp Chaos Imperial Knights or D-Thirsters (on 4+'s) - as maledictions do stack.

Against other armies, it's all circumstantial but it gives me more flexibility in my list which is exactly what I need when I'm running a hyperstar and limited support.

After 4 pages there are a few tactics I haven't seen called out that I've had luck with in regards to the Blackmanes list.

I'm one of the biggest blood claw haters out there because of their WS3 BS3 but while Ragnar himself is nothing special being able to reroll ALL failed to hit rolls turns the tide. Looking at the typical 10 man squad, 40 attacks, only 20 hit, but rerolling the 20 misses yields 10 more hits, or 30 in total. That's a huge difference. Take a power something in the squad to help with autowounds and they can really mop up.

Taking minimum squad numbers 3 claws, 4 GH (which I only make 5 man squads with a melta gun) plus the LF squad which can take a DP (but doesn't have to ride in it) yields 8 drop pods. I give them ALL the deathwind missile launcher. Normally, or never, something I do because 15 points for a 12" range sucks. But when the 35 point pod is already free, and you're suddenly taking 8 pods, that's 8 templates to put down and for only 120 points! It's a wall of pods in front of your enemy and if they want to get through your wall you have 8 templates for them to contend with. The armour 12 and 3 HP is a pain in the ass, especially when you have 3 BC squads muckin up combat and 4 GH squads squabbling around with melta guns blowing tanks up. Its a fun mess

The other issues is star units, flyers, and monstrous creatures. I take a 4 man squad of TWC with 2 power fists and 2 SS, hidden in deployment but with 50 marines in front of your enemy turn 1 they run up unharmed to target any star units the blood claws can't handle by turn 2. I also equip the scouts with sniper rifles because lets face it there just isn't anything you can do with them that will make them worthwhile. At least this way they can target monstrous creatures and take a wound or two. The long fangs I give flakk missiles to handle any flyers.

I have reworked the list. Below.

+++ Wolf Pounce (1850pts) +++

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (SW Company of the Great Wolf Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Rune Priest [Bike, Psyker Mastery Level 2, Rune Axe]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

Rune Priest [Bike, Psychic Hood, Psyker Mastery Level 2, Rune Sword]
··Power Armour [Bolt Pistol]

+ Elites +

Servitors [Servitor]

Servitors [Servitor]

+ Fast Attack +

Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]

Thunderwolf Cavalry
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]

++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

"Deathpack"
··Grey Hunters
····5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 5x Bolter]
··Thunderwolf Cavalry
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Power Fist, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry [Chainsword, Storm Shield]
····Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader [Storm Shield, Wolf Claw]
··Wolf Lord [Thunderwolf, Warlord]
····Armour of Russ [Pair of Wolf Claws]

Wulfen Murderpack
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Stormfrag Auto-Launcher, Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Dual Frost Claws, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Dual Frost Claws, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]

I have put a challenge lord in this list and to caster to give me options for a force multiplier. With santic or Biomance I should get the offensive or defensive buffs needto make the units hit hard or faster.
With the unit being in the the great wolf formation I will have some thunderwolves are ws 5 which will make that unit a lot more deadly.

I do worry that I have to many point in to the wolfen. What you think??

You used my Servitor idea! Yay!

I really like this concept though, especially with the deathpack since it allows the TWC to assault pretty early.

Also, give TWC Pistols instead of Chainswords, no difference except they get a shooting attack.

Also I might have asked this before, but is using the Malefic Daemonology powers useful as Space Wolves? It would be pretty fluffy for my wolves...