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 phantombap wrote:
dang, non-vehicles, too bad..... would be fun to hijack a titan or something of the like. guess we'll have to settle for tau mechs or demon-prince, or bio-titan

Or a WK.. or a grav centurian team.. so many awesome choices

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Not looking forward to rerollable 3++ saves on t5 models if its more than chaos/generic powers....

Yeah pretty much every marine star just got better with these psychic updates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you guys see the chaos relics?

CLICK ME FOR RELICS

I think they are ok.. but they are all way to expensive.. especially the first one.. maybe if it was apoc blast.. or barrage... or 3 auto pens... idk.

I would've thought it was fake if it wasn't for the pages and layout being the same, because they're identical.

This may be the laziest "update" I've ever.

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 phantombap wrote:
dang, non-vehicles, too bad..... would be fun to hijack a titan or something of the like. guess we'll have to settle for tau mechs or demon-prince, or bio-titan

Or a WK.. or a grav centurian team.. so many awesome choices

Those are like the only things worth it though

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 phantombap wrote:
dang, non-vehicles, too bad..... would be fun to hijack a titan or something of the like. guess we'll have to settle for tau mechs or demon-prince, or bio-titan

Or a WK.. or a grav centurian team.. so many awesome choices

Those are like the only things worth it though

Or you could play against a force with no useful units and have wasted a load of points.

 welshhoppo wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 phantombap wrote:
dang, non-vehicles, too bad..... would be fun to hijack a titan or something of the like. guess we'll have to settle for tau mechs or demon-prince, or bio-titan

Or a WK.. or a grav centurian team.. so many awesome choices

Those are like the only things worth it though

Or you could play against a force with no useful units and have wasted a load of points.

So don't play against CSM.

It's in no way just a little distressing that they did not touch the actual codex, the one thing actually in need of an update.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Not looking forward to rerollable 3++ saves on t5 models if its more than chaos/generic powers....

Yeah pretty much every marine star just got better with these psychic updates.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did you guys see the chaos relics?

CLICK ME FOR RELICS

I think they are ok.. but they are all way to expensive.. especially the first one.. maybe if it was apoc blast.. or barrage... or 3 auto pens... idk.

I have a hard enough time as is dealing with my friends 6+~ thunderwolf with TH/SS let alone rerollable, but its expected, GW is making everything except Chaos, Orks &Tyranids op.

Fixed that for you!

For me its actually changed quite a bit. Thanks to having access to both the BL and csm relics i can now make a mastery level 2 tzeench chaos lord who generates a new power every turn and if im reading it correctly would keep all previously generated powers.

Where does it say you can talk both sets of Relics?

Look under the army special rules in the updated black legion book

No you can't, because a lord wih the scroll of magnus is not a psyker yet. He becomes a psyker the first time you roll and get a power. By that time it's too late to buy the yuranthos relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose it would work with the crimson slaughter bonus though, assuming they get to do the same thing. Though he would be masterly lvl 1 only.

omg that is not what I wanted. A bandaid in the form of 2 supplements?

CSM needs A entirely new Codex Re Write! , Not these 2 suplements.

I was excited...and then I read the formations. They are pretty bad overall.

I thought about how this would change my army structure, and unfortunately I don't think I will be trying out any of these formations.

the main one I was interested in was the Black Legion Warband one. It utilizes most of the units I use already. But then I realized I can't take a Daemon Prince, Helldrake, Maulerfiends or Oblitorators without taking a CAD. No amount of re-roll is going to replace those units in my CAD. Those units are my heavy lifters, everything else is just filler.

I could try to take the Daemon Engine one, but I don't have room for a Warpsmith.

The Cabal is useful at least, I would certainly consider that one.

They didn't even bother to re-cost the artifacts or change the pathetic warlord traits.

The Chosen of Abaddon formations is straight up garbage. I don't understand. Why can't it just be Terminators come in on turn 1 or 2 automatically(your choice), or Terminators can assault out of deep strike. That would be useful. I guess we can't have nice things though.

The book is pretty terrible, formations are garbage. But I'm probably going to pick it up because I play Black Legion (unfortunately)

Yea, same. Though for me, the fact that I can have a physical book is also a factor. Even if its not hardback, which I prefer...a lot.

I have both hardcover version of our supplements, mostly because of the background material they offered.

I don't care if these versions are cheaper... the rules outside of the Sorcerers formation are garbage, and I'm not re-buying just for the exact same background + worse binding and softcover.

I didn't get the old one because it just wasn't worth it to me. This isn't a whole lot better but least it has enough content to be called a supplement this time around.

You will entertained to know, 626, that the Crimson Slaughter formations are better than the Black Legion ones.

So not only are their overall rules and relics better, but their formations are better as well! I'll post on LO later about that.

Cant get worse right? i mean the could nerf the chicken.

They really aren't. They all have possessed. no.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They really aren't. They all have possessed. no.

Crimson Slaughter Possessed are actually rock solid, especially by our lowly standards... Obsec, a vastly superior mutations table, and the ability to spam MSU Fearless units? Yes please.

The BL Possessed formation is laughable actually. Hooray, they get Rending + mutation roll!! And you're saddled with taking the game's outright worst MC, and are forced to keep all your Possessed anchored within range of him, otherwise they stand a decent chance of not really moving for a turn... on a purely close combat only unit!

That's nearing the Ork fighter jet formation levels of steaming turd.

You guys realize that you are basically the Washington Generals right?

Median Trace wrote:
You guys realize that you are basically the Washington Generals right?

Nah, we're really hoping that we're basically the Toronto Maple Leafs!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They really aren't. They all have possessed. no.

Crimson Slaughter Possessed are actually rock solid, especially by our lowly standards... Obsec, a vastly superior mutations table, and the ability to spam MSU Fearless units? Yes please.
.

They won't have obsec in a formation tho. I get that they are better, but.. still not good. MSU need to be a lot cheaper /more durable.

The saddest thing is that this pretty much confirms that either a) GW has no idea that CSM are extremely poor and in desperate need of help or b) GW knows CSM are extremely poor and is perfectly happy to leave them that way. Either one does not bode well for any future codex update.

Nah, we're really hoping that we're basically the Toronto Maple Leafs!

Spoken like a true Torontonian We've finally hit rock bottom!

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Nah, we're really hoping that we're basically the Toronto Maple Leafs!

Spoken like a true Torontonian We've finally hit rock bottom!

But with Shanny & Lou leading in the front office, and Babs behind the bench, the Leafs will definitely be turned into a competitive beast - even if it's still likely 3-4 good years from happening...
Hopefully that's what these "new" supplements are a sign of, the very beginning of a complete overhaul and eventual re-build of the faction. They might be lazy, half-arsed re-writes with about 2% 'new' content, but overall, if our stuff gets even just a proper pts re-adjustment, then most of these new formations would actually be decent & fun to play with/against.


And for the record, I'm a die-hard Habs fan!
But I won't lie that I'm still excited to see that the Loafs are on the right track to becoming relevant again - makes beating you guys up fun again!

Experiment 626 wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They really aren't. They all have possessed. no.

Crimson Slaughter Possessed are actually rock solid, especially by our lowly standards... Obsec, a vastly superior mutations table, and the ability to spam MSU Fearless units? Yes please.

The BL Possessed formation is laughable actually. Hooray, they get Rending + mutation roll!! And you're saddled with taking the game's outright worst MC, and are forced to keep all your Possessed anchored within range of him, otherwise they stand a decent chance of not really moving for a turn... on a purely close combat only unit!

That's nearing the Ork fighter jet formation levels of steaming turd.

Both are still pointless though. Your better off taking a CAD with the few actual good units we have and taking allied daemons for your assault troops just as before. The Red Onslaught's -1 to enemy LD would have been great with an allied nurgle herald with the bell. Or if you rolled the -1
LD Crimson Slaughter WL trait. Or your were taking the Excess Lore and wanted to make an LD bomb list. But there is just no way to justify taking 6 subpar formations.


Also Noise Marines and Plauge Marines do MSU Fearless far better and are cheaper to boot.

The scrolls make the Lord Mastery Level 1 the last memory grants him a additional Mastery Level + sunburst

No, that's not how it works. The scroll doesn't make you a psyker until you actually get a power. From then on you count as a mastery level 1 psyker. So since the scrolls don't make you a psyker, you can't even buy the last memory.

It would work for crimson slaughter, where the lord is an actual psyker at list building time, but presumably they don't get the last memeory to augment the lord. Either way the scroll doesn't increase your mastery level, it only makes you a lvl 1 psyker if the character wasn't as psyker when aquiring its first power.