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http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/04/breaking-chaos-marine-new-releases.html

Title says it all. Good for you chaos.

Looks like some really nice additions to update all the marine supplements as well. Very curious to see what all is in this book...

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/04/40k-new-space-marines-supplement-spotted.html

**EDIT**

My big questions, is if other Astartes armies will be "FAQd" to use some of these new psychic powers ... http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/04/40k-new-space-marine-psychic-powers-preview.html

Such as armies like GKs, Space wolves, etc...

Oh-I-wonder-what-god-will-get-something-new-oh-would-you-look-at-all-that-red.

Retail companies don't play elaborate April Fools jokes, lol.

What you saw with left-handed paintbruses and pop-up books are about as daring as any retail company is going to get.

It's cool to see the Cultists getting a real box. Though I don't know why it comes with one random monopose Chaos Marine from the DV set too.

 Purifier wrote:
Oh-I-wonder-what-god-will-get-something-new-oh-would-you-look-at-all-that-red.

theyre-still-generic-marines.-would-you-have-felt-better-if-they-were-purple-or-pink-maybe?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Retail companies don't play elaborate April Fools jokes, lol.

What you saw with left-handed paintbruses and pop-up books are about as daring as any retail company is going to get.

It's cool to see the Cultists getting a real box. Though I don't know why it comes with one random monopose Chaos Marine from the DV set too.

It's the Aspiring Champion, right?

He's a clampack. GW is getting burned super hard with plastic clampacks, so they're trying to jam them in box sets anywhere they can.

Those dies don't pay for themselves.

Yeah for sure. I am just really liking the direction that the company seems to be taking right now under all the new leadership.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Retail companies don't play elaborate April Fools jokes, lol.

What you saw with left-handed paintbruses and pop-up books are about as daring as any retail company is going to get.

It's cool to see the Cultists getting a real box. Though I don't know why it comes with one random monopose Chaos Marine from the DV set too.

A theory I've come across is that both of the box sets may end up related to the new formations promised in the supplements. Yes, it's just speculation, but it makes sense: A cultist horde led by a single champion? Yeah, that'd be some fluffy fun right there.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:

 Purifier wrote:
Oh-I-wonder-what-god-will-get-something-new-oh-would-you-look-at-all-that-red.

theyre-still-generic-marines.-would-you-have-felt-better-if-they-were-purple-or-pink-maybe?

Well, I would have liked to see some Nurgle marine models, since my friend plays a mono-Nurgle list and I like seeing new models on the table, but every single release in the chaos universe seems to be focused around Khorne.

But now that you mention it, yes I would like to see some Slaanesh-themed models that aren't just repaints of Khorne Spikey Marines.

Lets hope these updates are better then the Ghazz one

 Scourged wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Retail companies don't play elaborate April Fools jokes, lol.

What you saw with left-handed paintbruses and pop-up books are about as daring as any retail company is going to get.

It's cool to see the Cultists getting a real box. Though I don't know why it comes with one random monopose Chaos Marine from the DV set too.

A theory I've come across is that both of the box sets may end up related to the new formations promised in the supplements. Yes, it's just speculation, but it makes sense: A cultist horde led by a single champion? Yeah, that'd be some fluffy fun right there.

Oh, I don't have an problems with the fluff of it. It more just seems like it's including a model nobody needs, and certainly don't need multiples of.

Hopefully these are actually worthwhile. Not counting on it since supplements don't fix costs, which is one of the areas CSM struggle.

I feel like I'm missing something fundamental here?

All I'm seeing are a bunch of existing models clumped together into shared boxes - such as cultists with a champion, terminators with a terminator lord (essentially independent characters stuck in squads of existing units).


None of it is *new*


In addition, the Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion supplements already exist, so these releases invalidate existing copies so you're expected to update your codices, rulebooks and now supplements too?

And a whole new book for my space marines full of formations that costs the same as a new codex?


I'm not excited for any of this, it invalidates my last up-to-date army rulebook (Crimson slaughter), adds no new models (or updates for existing old lines) and adds more 'essential' formations guff to the Space Marines force that will no doubt be needed if I want to remain competitive (which I've given up with).


Maybe I've overlooked something?

 Wulfmar wrote:
(...)

None of it is *new*

Indeed.

In addition, the Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion supplements already exist, so these releases invalidate existing copies so you're expected to update your codices, rulebooks and now supplements too?

And a whole new book for my space marines full of formations that costs the same as a new codex?

I'm not excited for any of this, it invalidates my last up-to-date army rulebook (Crimson slaughter), adds no new models (or updates for existing old lines) and adds more 'essential' formations guff to the Space Marines force that will no doubt be needed if I want to remain competitive (which I've given up with).

Maybe I've overlooked something?

It's exactly as you've said and you have overlooked nothing.

In fact, supplements getting a 7th ed. update virtually guarantees the CSM main codex will not be touched for what remains of this edition... and probably a long time.

Some people are so so desperate for GW to throw them a bone that they will see a shiny and delicious bone even if it's only a piece of wood.

The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

 Orock wrote:
The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

Yeah, makes sense that SM get like over half a main rulebook's worth of psychic powers in addition to the ones they already have from said rulebook. Cuz SM are the galaxy's greatest psykers in case ya didn't know.

At this point I'd be happy if they just let poor CSM roll on the daemon psychic disciplines.

And didn't you hear they're also getting Heresy-era legion equipment too? Why? Cause feth Chaos that's why.

Just for OPs sake, I can confirm that these are not april fools.

These are real releases coming soon, around the time the SM anniversary comes out.

They are also releasing new SM packs including a Terminator Command squad, among other things. BOLS has reported only a fraction of the new releases coming soon.

Edit: All new releases are either SM or CSM in the couple of months.

No, it's more like feth eldar tau and necrons. Unfortunately CSM suffers as collateral damage.

Hmm, that SM leaks needs more blue in my opinion. UM barely have enough support as it is.

 Korinov wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
(...)

None of it is *new*

Indeed.

In addition, the Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion supplements already exist, so these releases invalidate existing copies so you're expected to update your codices, rulebooks and now supplements too?

And a whole new book for my space marines full of formations that costs the same as a new codex?

I'm not excited for any of this, it invalidates my last up-to-date army rulebook (Crimson slaughter), adds no new models (or updates for existing old lines) and adds more 'essential' formations guff to the Space Marines force that will no doubt be needed if I want to remain competitive (which I've given up with).

Maybe I've overlooked something?

It's exactly as you've said and you have overlooked nothing.

In fact, supplements getting a 7th ed. update virtually guarantees the CSM main codex will not be touched for what remains of this edition... and probably a long time.

Some people are so so desperate for GW to throw them a bone that they will see a shiny and delicious bone even if it's only a piece of wood.

True. But at least something is being tossed in CSM's direction. Especially since it's something that was on no one's radar. Any forecast at an updated CSM line wasn't until 2017 anyway. The new traits, artefacts, and formations will mostly be nothing more than distractions until then, sure, but it's something. I guess. The terminator box set is useless, agreed. The other one? Well, it'll be the first legitimate way to buy the full 20 cultists since their DV release. Not that it's much use to anyone, I'm sure, because eBay is a thing... but it's something.

Better a scrap of wood than an empty dog dish, yeah?

Instead of complaining about only getting the Supplement update CSM players should be happy they are at least getting something. Hell my IG are in the same boat, all we got was the Cadian update and that actually had a few good Formations to help us out.

Considering what they already offered, and also considering what has just happened with the Ghazkull one, the update of these supplements is next to nothing. The design philosophy behind the Black Legion one is beyond pathetic (we're suppossed to take 20-man CSM squads with no special weapons and just run towards the enemy? seriously?) and the Crimson Slaughter one is a direct insult to the traditional legions who right now have been almost 10 years without rules of their own.

Worse still, the update of the supplements means the main CSM codex (a terribly flawed, poorly internally balanced, brutally outdated codex) will be left untouched for the rest of the edition.

So I see no good news here. If someone pretends to convince me otherwise, be warned that you'll have to try very hard, because new random warlord traits, a bunch of formations I'm not interested in and a pair of new relics solve none of the important problems that have plagued CSM for years.

Unless the Terminator Formation can assault out of deep strike, or at the very least, come down automatically turn 2 with no scatter, then it might be worth considering.

Not sure what the cultists will get, I'm guessing either run and charge or a version of daemonic instability. Either way, I doubt anyone will care since the only use for cultists is as low priority objective campers.

 Orock wrote:
The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

Eh, Space Marines had been an upper-middle tier army at best for a while now. The only thing making them competitive at this point is formation fuggery. Their armor saves have been all but negated to irrelevancy, but they still pay for them in points, plus they're not really good at anything, just sort of an entire army of "Slightly Above Average".

Otherwise, the Necrons, Tau and Eldar have been dominant for quite a while now. Chaos Marines and Orks just exist in a bad place with the current ruleset.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Orock wrote:
The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

Eh, Space Marines had been an upper-middle tier army at best for a while now. The only thing making them competitive at this point is formation fuggery. Their armor saves have been all but negated to irrelevancy, but they still pay for them in points, plus they're not really good at anything, just sort of an entire army of "Slightly Above Average".

Otherwise, the Necrons, Tau and Eldar have been dominant for quite a while now. Chaos Marines and Orks just exist in a bad place with the current ruleset.

Tau have won no major tournaments since their update. The last good Tau list had the Tau Ghostkeel Wing but was primarily a space wolves Deathstar at Adepticon. The best "pure" Tau list placed 25th. That's it there were no other Tau lists that did good. But clearly we need to be nerfed more right. Look at results to other tournaments and you will find the Tau did even worse there.

Edit
I realize this doesn't help Chaos having a super weak codex, but I'm just saying Tau isn't an I win button. It looks that way when looking at it if your only experience running an army is one of the worst. Naturally a lot of other armies are going to look super powerful but does that make them super powered? No not really.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Orock wrote:
The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

Eh, Space Marines had been an upper-middle tier army at best for a while now. The only thing making them competitive at this point is formation fuggery. Their armor saves have been all but negated to irrelevancy, but they still pay for them in points, plus they're not really good at anything, just sort of an entire army of "Slightly Above Average".

Otherwise, the Necrons, Tau and Eldar have been dominant for quite a while now. Chaos Marines and Orks just exist in a bad place with the current ruleset.

Tau have won no major tournaments since their update. The last good Tau list had the Tau Ghostkeel Wing but was primarily a space wolves Deathstar at Adepticon. The best "pure" Tau list placed 25th. That's it there were no other Tau lists that did good. But clearly we need to be nerfed more right. Look at results to other tournaments and you will find the Tau did even worse there.

Tau got 12th at LVO and 11th at Adapticon. That's really good

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Orock wrote:
The ghazkull suppliment was updated. We got nothing good short of 2500 points+ play level. Don't get your hopes up. You are the antagonist npc army. Your job is to be a punching bag for Timmie's space marines. Space marines I might add that just got 24 new unique to them psychic powers.

Eh, Space Marines had been an upper-middle tier army at best for a while now. The only thing making them competitive at this point is formation fuggery. Their armor saves have been all but negated to irrelevancy, but they still pay for them in points, plus they're not really good at anything, just sort of an entire army of "Slightly Above Average".

Otherwise, the Necrons, Tau and Eldar have been dominant for quite a while now. Chaos Marines and Orks just exist in a bad place with the current ruleset.

Tau have won no major tournaments since their update. The last good Tau list had the Tau Ghostkeel Wing but was primarily a space wolves Deathstar at Adepticon. The best "pure" Tau list placed 25th. That's it there were no other Tau lists that did good. But clearly we need to be nerfed more right. Look at results to other tournaments and you will find the Tau did even worse there.

Tau got 12th at LVO and 11th at Adapticon. That's really good

The 11th place list was in error. He took a primary space wolves deathstar and an allies Ghostkeel. So that means the best Tau player was 25th barely. They did get 12th at LVO and likely to place even lower as power creep sets in for other updated factions. Tau need to be unnerfed in the ITC. The player himself clarified this in tournament discussions on this very site if you want to see his post.

But Adepticon doesn't use the ITC, so why would an unrelated tourney show the need to chamge rules that are different between the two? Also, Tau don't like infinite Wraithknights and the megasuperfriendsdeathstars that Adepticon allows and, to my knowledge (detachment limit stopping 5 sources being brought for the wombo combo like the #1 list had) the ITC stops. The ghostkell cpuld do with an unerf I grant you, but overall most of the ITC chamges to tau are for the better (see the tankshock ruling and Tau being the only non-Kight army to be able to take multiple Superheavies.)

More on topic, I really hope free marks are a thing. T5 troops are nothing to scoff at, and if CSM players have any good karma saved up we will hopefully see some kind of "Chaos-Undevided" rule gor the black crusade that gives them all the marks but still for free.

Just edited the title to make it clear this is a general discussion thread about what this release could mean, instead of a news and rumours thread. That seems to be what is happening, and it belongs here then

The figures look cool, but don't need more cultists or terminators. Would be nice to get a NEW Chaos Space Marine Codex, not a rehash BL/CS.

 Wulfmar wrote:
I feel like I'm missing something fundamental here?

All I'm seeing are a bunch of existing models clumped together into shared boxes - such as cultists with a champion, terminators with a terminator lord (essentially independent characters stuck in squads of existing units).


None of it is *new*

New formations in both supplements which have not existed before, therefore being new.

Personally can't see anything to be unhappy about. Can't also see why one would be happier with just having the old supplements and the old Codex, aka nothing new, than having the new supplements and formations. But each to his own I guess.