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 master of ordinance wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wraithbrigade/Scatbike spam
Marine Biker lists/Librarius Conclave and invisibility being spammed on triple Vindicator squadrons
30K units being brought against 40K armies
Primarchs.

What, because it's unfair that the 40k army will always crush the hamstrung 30k CAD?

Take whatever primarch you like. Heck, pick 2. I'll take a perfectly ordinary, 40k legal Imperial Knight.

Let's see which side wins...

I see someone has never played against Imperial Guard. 30K nonsense is utterly stupid.

Goodness me, is that a squad of 20 tactical marines on foot with no special weapons? My Imperial Guard are terrified!

>10 HW marines
>Ignores cover everywhere
>Deathguard/gravewardens
>Flamer. Squad.
>>IcandowhatIwantbecauseIplaymarinesandGWlovesmeforit.jpg

1) if 10 MEQs carrying lascannons is something terrifying to you and you play guard, I really don't know how to help you. MEQs out of transports are one of the few things we have TONS of solid options to deal with.

2) That's rich coming from a Guard player, who can order any infantry or artillery model (or artillery vehicle if you take the Wrath battery...) to ignore cover. Besides that, I don't suppose you've ever played perfectly 40k-legal Tau, have you?

3) Death Guard: Let's see, they get ATSKNF....but instead of being immune to being swept, they get a -1 to sweeping other people. Clearly broken?
Grave Wardens: Tactical Terminators that are very slightly better at not immediately dying in assault. 40 PPM each for a single wound with a 2+ armor save.

4) A squad of dudes with flamers. I really, really hope you know this isn't broken because the guard can do this with PCS and CCS squads. There's a reason you don't see all-flamer CCS/PCS squads sweeping tournaments...it's because they're not good.

5) This is true, in 40k. 40k marines are pretty much absolutely better than 30k marines in every way measurable. There's nothing you can do in 30k you can't do better in 40k, including big beefy scary death stars. There's no 30k death star with a primarch and what have you that can stand up to an optimized Iron Hands librarius/smashfether bike star of equivalent points. All the 30k legion tactics pale in comparison to ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics with no drawbacks, and that's not even taking into account the kinds of bonkers free gak you get handed to you with formations and decurions.

If you are willing to play against marines in 40k, there is zero reason to refuse to play 30k marines. You can give me any "crazy op" thing you can bring in 30k, and there's something in 40k that's just objectively better than it.