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I really like that approach to Orks (making larger Mobs grant a boost to their effectiveness), but it seems on its face to involve a lot more tracking of specific numbers than seems prudent for a reasonably fast game (something that can already be an issue, given the sheer number of models that many Ork players bring to the table).

Each and every turn, you're counting models in a unit to see if they reach the threshold needed for the leadership test. Each and every combat phase, you're counting models to see if they qualify for the extra boosts.

IF you're going to take this approach (and again, I like the approach intellectually), I strongly suggest you simplify it significantly.

Either make it a binary situation (If Unit has 1/2 Max models or more, it gains X benefit) with a slightly boosted baseline (because Orks deserve it)

OR

Make the per-N-Model boosts uniform and consistent (Boyz: For every 15 models, give +1 to the model's FnP, or 6+ FnP if they don't have it yet, to a maximum of 4+++).

See, I thought about blanket bonuses for Orks as a whole, but I really wanted to differentiate the different types of Orks based off the fact that they have different interests.

I also didn't think it was too much book keeping for the amount of models but I can always trim down the bonuses so that there's less levels. I really like my levels though...

Looks fun but tracking the exact number of models is a pain in the bum.
Not sure about the bigchoppa's ap4 cause it ends up as a two-handed power maul for 5 pts. And orks don't exactly need power mauls - even for 5 pts. The thing is that 4+ save is quite rare. s4 models benefit from +2 str more than nobs - that are s5 on the charge. And an extra attack from 2 ccw that's lost almost compensates the damage difference against t4 enemies. And it's still not good enough for a tankhunter job other than beginning to threaten dreads a bit. And 'eadwompa killchoppa still won't be used with it's ap4. It needs ap3 to even start competing with a power klaw. And still, most people would just take s10 ap2 over it any day. I honestly don't know what to do with a big choppa. Maybe make it some sort of an ork's power weapon.

Kommandoes with +3 to cover, rending and snikrot's charge from reserves would be op. They do need to charge from reserves but rending is probably too much with 4 attacks a pop for 10 ppm.

There are no benefits for shoota boyz. Large mobs could get extra shot or +1 to gun's str benefit or something like that. They really need a helping hand - they allready pay an extra point for a meh weapon - especially for footsloggas that severely lag behind in 6-7 edition.

And grots are gona be super overpriced for 4ppm with guns. Don't forget, they're s2 t2 with no armor and ld5 (7 with a runtherd). My suggestion would be to either make them s3 t3 or drop them to 2 ppm. s3 t3 is preferable cause they allready cost a small fortune $ per point.

Planes are still extremely underwhelming. Ork planes can't land, so their only use is as gunboats. No real need for that when all the other stuff is so much improved. Also, blitza bombers can't jink and drop bombs which is a death sentence to them. My suggestion would be to either make ork planes shootier + tougher with av11 or drop the price. Also, burna bombers simply have no place. s5 ap4 is very weak for such enormous price tag. Make the bombs s6 ap3 ignore cover soul blaze large blasts and skorcha missiles s6 ap3 ignore cover soulblaze small blasts. Ork-style heldrakes. Still not outstanding for 115 or so pts but they'd at least see some table time.

Av14 doesn't fix naughts at all. They need to be superheavies. Maybe a lighter more limited version of superheavies with 9" movement and nerfed stomps or just plain superheavies. They come very close to a wraithknight's price tag. And yet they are worse than landraiders.

Killa kanz and dreads are still really really bad. Especially kanz. The removal of cowardly grots doesn't justify them costing a hefty 50 points for a slow av11 2 hp walker with a s7 ws2 claw. They should cost 30 pts. No more. 35 with grotzookas. Deff dreads are crap not because they lack attacks but because they can't ever make it to combat and are too expensive to be spammed with good results.

Big meks need a little something cause now there's no real point taking them over superior warbosses. KFF is severely overpriced for a 5++ 6" bauble. It either needs to be meaningful again or cost a portion of what it does now. Like 20 pts. And a SAG is also quite bad with how it punishes the bearer with most special effects. Needs to either be more reliable or much cheaper.

Wierdboyz have a crappy ork magic table - that's why they're underwhelming. We need something to deal with invisibility and to increase mobility/durability of our footsloggers. The waaaghpower table needs to be reworked. I've had an idea of how it should be. The general principles are: stronger effects, harder to deny, more dangerous to the wierdboy himself.

Ghazzy needs to be relentless instead of snp to become viable for footslogging blobs. He also needs his old +1 attack back (that got taken away alongside the 5++ with no point reduction in the codex), and fearless or better effigy. Cause now he only seems to inspire orks once per games outside of ghazcurion where he has to spend time with an overly expensive and unwieldy retinue. As is, he's the only lord of war that can get swept. I don't think he needs unwieldy removed. A lot of LOW's have unwieldy weapons. Yep, he's massive but still. He allready gets 2+ 4++ t5 and +1 to fnp. Good enough for the price tag considering all the other buffs. Oh, and his bigshoota MUST be twin-linked. Come on, it's modelled as 2 bigshootas slapped together.

Also, what else should be reworked is Ghaz detachment "bonuses". That are really penalties and not bonuses. +2 to mob rule. When we usually want 1-3 results. And extra casualties from mob rule are not welcomed either.

 koooaei wrote:
Looks fun but tracking the exact number of models is a pain in the bum.
Not sure about the bigchoppa's ap4 cause it ends up as a two-handed power maul for 5 pts. And orks don't exactly need power mauls - even for 5 pts. The thing is that 4+ save is quite rare. s4 models benefit from +2 str more than nobs - that are s5 on the charge. And an extra attack from 2 ccw that's lost almost compensates the damage difference against t4 enemies. And it's still not good enough for a tankhunter job other than beginning to threaten dreads a bit. And 'eadwompa killchoppa still won't be used with it's ap4. It needs ap3 to even start competing with a power klaw. And still, most people would just take s10 ap2 over it any day. I honestly don't know what to do with a big choppa. Maybe make it some sort of an ork's power weapon.

Kommandoes with +3 to cover, rending and snikrot's charge from reserves would be op. They do need to charge from reserves but rending is probably too much with 4 attacks a pop for 10 ppm.

There are no benefits for shoota boyz. Large mobs could get extra shot or +1 to gun's str benefit or something like that. They really need a helping hand - they allready pay an extra point for a meh weapon - especially for footsloggas that severely lag behind in 6-7 edition.

And grots are gona be super overpriced for 4ppm with guns. Don't forget, they're s2 t2 with no armor and ld5 (7 with a runtherd). My suggestion would be to either make them s3 t3 or drop them to 2 ppm. s3 t3 is preferable cause they allready cost a small fortune $ per point.

Planes are still extremely underwhelming. Ork planes can't land, so their only use is as gunboats. No real need for that when all the other stuff is so much improved. Also, blitza bombers can't jink and drop bombs which is a death sentence to them. My suggestion would be to either make ork planes shootier + tougher with av11 or drop the price. Also, burna bombers simply have no place. s5 ap4 is very weak for such enormous price tag. Make the bombs s6 ap3 ignore cover soul blaze large blasts and skorcha missiles s6 ap3 ignore cover soulblaze small blasts. Ork-style heldrakes. Still not outstanding for 115 or so pts but they'd at least see some table time.

Av14 doesn't fix naughts at all. They need to be superheavies. Maybe a lighter more limited version of superheavies with 9" movement and nerfed stomps or just plain superheavies. They come very close to a wraithknight's price tag. And yet they are worse than landraiders.

Killa kanz and dreads are still really really bad. Especially kanz. The removal of cowardly grots doesn't justify them costing a hefty 50 points for a slow av11 2 hp walker with a s7 ws2 claw. They should cost 30 pts. No more. 35 with grotzookas. Deff dreads are crap not because they lack attacks but because they can't ever make it to combat and are too expensive to be spammed with good results.

Big meks need a little something cause now there's no real point taking them over superior warbosses. KFF is severely overpriced for a 5++ 6" bauble. It either needs to be meaningful again or cost a portion of what it does now. Like 20 pts. And a SAG is also quite bad with how it punishes the bearer with most special effects. Needs to either be more reliable or much cheaper.

Wierdboyz have a crappy ork magic table - that's why they're underwhelming. We need something to deal with invisibility and to increase mobility/durability of our footsloggers. The waaaghpower table needs to be reworked. I've had an idea of how it should be. The general principles are: stronger effects, harder to deny, more dangerous to the wierdboy himself.

Ghazzy needs to be relentless instead of snp to become viable for footslogging blobs. He also needs his old +1 attack back (that got taken away alongside the 5++ with no point reduction in the codex), and fearless or better effigy. Cause now he only seems to inspire orks once per games outside of ghazcurion where he has to spend time with an overly expensive and unwieldy retinue. As is, he's the only lord of war that can get swept. I don't think he needs unwieldy removed. A lot of LOW's have unwieldy weapons. Yep, he's massive but still. He allready gets 2+ 4++ t5 and +1 to fnp. Good enough for the price tag considering all the other buffs. Oh, and his bigshoota MUST be twin-linked. Come on, it's modelled as 2 bigshootas slapped together.

Also, what else should be reworked is Ghaz detachment "bonuses". That are really penalties and not bonuses. +2 to mob rule. When we usually want 1-3 results. And extra casualties from mob rule are not welcomed either.

1. Giving the Big Choppa AP3 makes it the equivalent of a Relic Blade, which is usually priced at 15-25 points.AP4 is just easier in order to keep the current price tag. Maybe AP3 at 15 points?
2. It really isn't because Kommandos are Ork Boy stats once they reach combat. Also remember that the Rending only happens in 15+. It's good but you'd have to actually pay for it.
3. Shoota Boys were never going to gain benefits. Even a free exchange for the Shoota is something you won't do because they're shooting at BS2. It's false hope for all intents and purposes.
4. I agree. I will bump Gretchen to 2 points each. They're definitely nowhere near deserving of S3 T3. They're not even close to looking as tough as a human.
5. It's S5 AP4 Ignores Cover. Not everyone needs a Heldrake equivalent but I would be willing to bump some of the AV up.
6. That's the fault of the wraithKnight, which you and I already knows needs a super increase in points. Try and look at the internal balance of the codices I've tackled, not outside ones.
7. I can give the Kans and Dreads equivalent powers when taken in larger groups, so that three or more make them speedier.
8. I did completely forget they had their own table they were supposed to roll on. I can take a look at it.
9. I actually thought Ghaz had Fearless. It will be added. And I can tackle the supplement later as I forgot that actually existed, otherwise I'd have done their relics and stuff too.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

1. Giving the Big Choppa AP3 makes it the equivalent of a Relic Blade, which is usually priced at 15-25 points.AP4 is just easier in order to keep the current price tag. Maybe AP3 at 15 points?

Not saying it shouldn't cost more. Might as well be relic blades equivalent. Are they used often? Well, they would be if they could be used as either s+1 ap3 or s+1 ap2 unwieldy or something. But that's the problem with relic blades and no real need for them in sm codex. Orks might really benefit from a wider variety of cc weapons than just a claw.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2. It really isn't because Kommandos are Ork Boy stats once they reach combat. Also remember that the Rending only happens in 15+. It's good but you'd have to actually pay for it.

I still think it'd be an op squad. They'd be more reliable and way tougher gsc for comparable amount of points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

3. Shoota Boys were never going to gain benefits. Even a free exchange for the Shoota is something you won't do because they're shooting at BS2. It's false hope for all intents and purposes.

There SHOULD be shoota boyz. It's fluff and it should be required on the tabletop. It's a wrong decision to just disregard them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

4. I agree. I will bump Gretchen to 2 points each. They're definitely nowhere near deserving of S3 T3. They're not even close to looking as tough as a human.

Well, grots used to be s3 t3. And they are were s3 t3 in FB. Snotlings were s2 t2. 40k grots got a nerf for no good reason. I think it's good either way. Be it s2 t2 for 2ppm or s3 t3 for 3ppm.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

5. It's S5 AP4 Ignores Cover. Not everyone needs a Heldrake equivalent but I would be willing to bump some of the AV up.

It is quite underwhelming. Cause it can't really reach everything. You got to fly above the target to be able to bomb it. Than the blast has 2/3 chance to scatter d6. And you can't even bomb if you jink or are forced to snapshoot as a result of the damage table. As is, it really has no place. Either make it useful by increasing it's killiness by a large margin or make it twice as cheap. Cause currently this plane is one of the worst planes of the tabletop. The concept is cool but it doesn't work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

6. That's the fault of the wraithKnight, which you and I already knows needs a super increase in points. Try and look at the internal balance of the codices I've tackled, not outside ones.

Still av14 isn't fixing anything. It's a slow, expensive walker that is afraid of the damage table and lacks damage itself. It's just not frightening. Mages, melta, strong mellee - all counter and outmaneuvre it. It can't deal with tarpits and doesn't contribute anything for half the game if you're playing offensive (and you are - you're an ork after all).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

7. I can give the Kans and Dreads equivalent powers when taken in larger groups, so that three or more make them speedier.
8. I did completely forget they had their own table they were supposed to roll on. I can take a look at it.
9. I actually thought Ghaz had Fearless. It will be added. And I can tackle the supplement later as I forgot that actually existed, otherwise I'd have done their relics and stuff too.

Will be eagerly waiting.

All ork walkers should have 'ere we go. And meks, wierdboyz, painboyz should have their equivalent of WAAAGH! For example, mek could grant all vehicles iwnd if he's a warlord or +1 to ramshakkle or something like this. Wierdboy could grant adamantium will or could be more deadly himself. Painboy could make him and his squad more durable or more crazy with granting something like Hatred or rampage for a turn or even the whole game - it's not a big stretch for loosing WAAAGH. Currently, only warbosses buff the army and are a prime choice for being a warlord. And it's right but there should be variation for more rare armies led by non-warbosses. Like dread mobs or crazy boyz.

 koooaei wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

1. Giving the Big Choppa AP3 makes it the equivalent of a Relic Blade, which is usually priced at 15-25 points.AP4 is just easier in order to keep the current price tag. Maybe AP3 at 15 points?

Not saying it shouldn't cost more. Might as well be relic blades equivalent. Are they used often? Well, they would be if they could be used as either s+1 ap3 or s+1 ap2 unwieldy or something. But that's the problem with relic blades and no real need for them in sm codex. Orks might really benefit from a wider variety of cc weapons than just a claw.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

2. It really isn't because Kommandos are Ork Boy stats once they reach combat. Also remember that the Rending only happens in 15+. It's good but you'd have to actually pay for it.

I still think it'd be an op squad. They'd be more reliable and way tougher gsc for comparable amount of points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

3. Shoota Boys were never going to gain benefits. Even a free exchange for the Shoota is something you won't do because they're shooting at BS2. It's false hope for all intents and purposes.

There SHOULD be shoota boyz. It's fluff and it should be required on the tabletop. It's a wrong decision to just disregard them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

4. I agree. I will bump Gretchen to 2 points each. They're definitely nowhere near deserving of S3 T3. They're not even close to looking as tough as a human.

Well, grots used to be s3 t3. And they are were s3 t3 in FB. Snotlings were s2 t2. 40k grots got a nerf for no good reason. I think it's good either way. Be it s2 t2 for 2ppm or s3 t3 for 3ppm.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

5. It's S5 AP4 Ignores Cover. Not everyone needs a Heldrake equivalent but I would be willing to bump some of the AV up.

It is quite underwhelming. Cause it can't really reach everything. You got to fly above the target to be able to bomb it. Than the blast has 2/3 chance to scatter d6. And you can't even bomb if you jink or are forced to snapshoot as a result of the damage table. As is, it really has no place. Either make it useful by increasing it's killiness by a large margin or make it twice as cheap. Cause currently this plane is one of the worst planes of the tabletop. The concept is cool but it doesn't work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

6. That's the fault of the wraithKnight, which you and I already knows needs a super increase in points. Try and look at the internal balance of the codices I've tackled, not outside ones.

Still av14 isn't fixing anything. It's a slow, expensive walker that is afraid of the damage table and lacks damage itself. It's just not frightening. Mages, melta, strong mellee - all counter and outmaneuvre it. It can't deal with tarpits and doesn't contribute anything for half the game if you're playing offensive (and you are - you're an ork after all).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

7. I can give the Kans and Dreads equivalent powers when taken in larger groups, so that three or more make them speedier.
8. I did completely forget they had their own table they were supposed to roll on. I can take a look at it.
9. I actually thought Ghaz had Fearless. It will be added. And I can tackle the supplement later as I forgot that actually existed, otherwise I'd have done their relics and stuff too.

Will be eagerly waiting.

All ork walkers should have 'ere we go. And meks, wierdboyz, painboyz should have their equivalent of WAAAGH! For example, mek could grant all vehicles iwnd if he's a warlord or +1 to ramshakkle or something like this. Wierdboy could grant adamantium will or could be more deadly himself. Painboy could make him and his squad more durable or more crazy with granting something like Hatred or rampage for a turn or even the whole game - it's not a big stretch for loosing WAAAGH. Currently, only warbosses buff the army and are a prime choice for being a warlord. And it's right but there should be variation for more rare armies led by non-warbosses. Like dread mobs or crazy boyz.

1. I already think Relic Blades are appropriately priced though (You choose between S6 AP3 I5 or S8 AP2 I1, though most people will want the ID of T4 models more than they care about the AP2). Why not I guess?
2. Genestealer Cults also got those advantages from their troops and not a single Elite choice (if we are counting the proposed fixes for Snikrot). It looks comparable until you kill some models (and when you consider they have to pass a LD test to get Rending).
3. It can be a free exchange. That's about the only way you'll see people wanting to use them.
4. How long ago was that, though? I believed they were always S2 T2 partly because when I started the game I never saw them fielded once and see them now because cheaper troop tax and Mek Guns.
5. I already made it cost considerably less by giving it all the extra bombs for free. That's why I'm thinking of the best way to make them more durable but keeping that ramshackle feel.
6. If they're to be super heavy they need a point increase. Probably around the price of Knights I guess. I'll work on that soon.
7. I actually thought all the Ork Walkers had that rule.
And I agree that the other HQ should really buff the army better in some other way. I mostly see them in my fix as a cheaper means to achieve the different Ork levels to really buff up squads.

In general, plazma pistols for 5 ppm is underpriced. 10 is the right cost for them - like it used to be for ig in earlier editions.
Also, i think you should buff blastmasters. They should be deadlier for a limited unique weapon for 25 pts.

Also, do spawns really need to be buffed with s6? They're allready one of the best units in the codex.

And CSM squad champions could benefit from the eldar exarch approach. Like +1 to ws/bs/wound. I know, it could cause some issues like: why do chosen that stick to csm have 2 wounds and regular chosen have 1 but there is a fix to that. They all should have 2 wounds and +1 ws/bs. Yes, all the chosen and termies. For a price increase ofc. But that would be so characterful. They haven't sold their soul for nothing. And it wouldn't be too bad cause chosen and termies are allready quite meh. But a beefier terminator that costs like 45-50 pts or a 22-25 pts chosen could be neat.

>I already think Relic Blades are appropriately priced though (You choose between S6 AP3 I5 or S8 AP2 I1, though most people will want the ID of T4 models more than they care about the AP2)

Where's that coming from? iirc relic blades are s+2 ap3 2-handed. And that's it. There's no power fist part for them. And there sure shouldn't be. They should be power axes at best. Cause they allready are cheaper than fists and with the option of being either ap3 at ini or ap2 at i1 they're quite versatile. Power swords in general could be great if they could either be ap3 or ap2 at i1 - probably with 1 less attack or something. This way you get a weaker but more versatile weapon.

 koooaei wrote:
In general, plazma pistols for 5 ppm is underpriced. 10 is the right cost for them - like it used to be for ig in earlier editions.
Also, i think you should buff blastmasters. They should be deadlier for a limited unique weapon for 25 pts.

Also, do spawns really need to be buffed with s6? They're allready one of the best units in the codex.

And CSM squad champions could benefit from the eldar exarch approach. Like +1 to ws/bs/wound. I know, it could cause some issues like: why do chosen that stick to csm have 2 wounds and regular chosen have 1 but there is a fix to that. They all should have 2 wounds and +1 ws/bs. Yes, all the chosen and termies. For a price increase ofc. But that would be so characterful. They haven't sold their soul for nothing. And it wouldn't be too bad cause chosen and termies are allready quite meh. But a beefier terminator that costs like 45-50 pts or a 22-25 pts chosen could be neat.

>I already think Relic Blades are appropriately priced though (You choose between S6 AP3 I5 or S8 AP2 I1, though most people will want the ID of T4 models more than they care about the AP2)

Where's that coming from? iirc relic blades are s+2 ap3 2-handed. And that's it. There's no power fist part for them. And there sure shouldn't be. They should be power axes at best. Cause they allready are cheaper than fists and with the option of being either ap3 at ini or ap2 at i1 they're quite versatile. Power swords in general could be great if they could either be ap3 or ap2 at i1 - probably with 1 less attack or something. This way you get a weaker but more versatile weapon.

Plasma Pistols were overpriced at 10. You get 1-2 shots with them and they do nothing in melee. All the pistol variants can go to 10 points if we do something about using them in melee (I contributed to another thread around here about that).
2. The buff to Blastmasters is the 5 point deduction and the buff to Blast weapons I have given in the Main Rulebook fixes.
3. The S6 is on the charge. Otherwise it was one of the ways to not make rules redundant, and was one of the things I did before deciding on MoK being +1 attack rather than Rage + Counter Attack. I simply never bothered to go back and fix it and figured it wasn't too bad.
4. Not gonna lie I did debate this for all Veteran equivalents. I mean it DOES make sense for it but I'm still on the fence as the reactions were mostly "Why do Eldar get two wounds on THEIR sergeants" rather than "Why don't I get two wounds on MY sergeants". Will consider it.
5. That context was pretty bad, so my bad. I meant that I thought Relic Blades were appropriately costed compared to Power Fists when it came to Space Marine characters.

Also I want to know people's thoughts about including some of the primary "Decurion" benefits into armies as a whole. Nobody seemed to care too much about me including Relentless standard for Necrons and Crusader/Brotherhood for Word Beaerers/Iron Warriors, and my main plan is to make it so that armies are sorta similar to 6th.

Basically for for every CAD you take, you get access to one formation, and you can take an extra CAD for every 750 points. Is something like that too complicated?

UPDATES:
1. The suggestion about multiple wounds on Veteran Sergeants has been considered, along with Vanguard pricing on melee weapons for them.
2. I included some of the benefits of the megaformations in the armies standard because people like the benefits but not the megaformations themselves.
3. There are now limitations for army construction. Allowed Formations to come soon.
4. Space Wolves and Eldar rebalance to come soon.

Well, to be honest, i didn't mean ALL sarges - just chaos ones. But it could be ok, i guess.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, to be honest, i didn't mean ALL sarges - just chaos ones. But it could be ok, i guess.

Oh. I can go back and rectify it if you think there would be a balance issue.

That said I feel it is a great way to help make less focus on HQ's and kitting them out.

This +1 W is mostly for armies where Tougher characters make sense. Like orks or csm. Orks allready have nobz with +1 w and +1s. I think csm could easilly get away with +1w and +1ws/bs for champs. Maybe for an increased point cost - like 15 pts instead of the usual 10. Cause currently eldar have 0 reason to not take a character - they grant so many bonuses for so cheap. Eldar should have it at 20 pts, really.

 koooaei wrote:
This +1 W is mostly for armies where Tougher characters make sense. Like orks or csm. Orks allready have nobz with +1 w and +1s. I think csm could easilly get away with +1w and +1ws/bs for champs. Maybe for an increased point cost - like 15 pts instead of the usual 10. Cause currently eldar have 0 reason to not take a character - they grant so many bonuses for so cheap. Eldar should have it at 20 pts, really.

I think rolling out the +1 wound for all Sergeant equivalents would be great.
Not dying to one unlucky saving throw would make investing points into them a lot more viable and not feel like so much of a waste.

I think if you want to fix the big choppa you should separate it from the idea of AP. The problems it really has is that it gives up an attack for +2 S, which with low ork Initiative means you may as well go for the power claw. So what you need to do to make it compete with a power klaw as an option.


So as a fix I would either look at either:

changing 2 handed to specialist weapon - this makes it possible to get an extra attack, but I think also makes it an upgrade to be taken to give a PK an extra attack if you can take both.

or Giving it 2 attack profiles
2xS, two handed or +2 S (or something like that).

This makes it such that the draw on the PK is the AP on the attacks, not necessarily the S, this might need to cost to rise on the big choppa though.

I'd like to see kharn that good haha. That's too far.