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Okay first I want to say I dislike the AoS setting, it's poorly written for the most part and seems purely to exist for Stomcast to simply exist as a range. Even those who lie the setting have to admit it still needs work

I dislike the rules, I dislike the fact my two favourite factions are now Basically blood sacrifices for Stormcast to exist.

Yet... Yet.. I kinda like the idea of this game ( I just hope it's not FFG like and I need stuff ill never use, just for a card) but ill be ditching both the factions it comes with and get two I prefer.

I like the Overlords.. so ill but the models I like but won't support those I do not. I have to face warhammer as it was is Dead, they won't do a 180, and have to hope Tomb Kings will appear in total war.

Ill buy the skeleton faction. Mordhiem will probably be AoSified and well ill have to see if it's just Stormcast vs Khorne again ill pass.

I was kinda angry but Kirby does stupid things, when Roundtree came in he could have put the brakes on and bought warhammer back but he did not AoS is ultimately for good or bad (in my opinion and I don't begrudge anybody for liking it) here to stay.

If I want to play I have to play AoS now because people have drifted to it. Despite what GW say the AoSification of 40k has begun.

Will I play? Probably.. but I ask myself what will GW sacrifice for these upcoming Super Space Marines... Sisters? Most probably..

Anyway. The point of my post is this there's simply no point in getting angry.

GW will do Whatever it wants. Support what you like and don't Support what you do.

Nobody is angry - I think that dome people are just a little chafed that we were discussing apples, and then someone came in complaining that those apples aren't oranges.
I mean, it's always apples and oranges with every game - but when someone doesn't like a game for *actual, fact based reasons* then it kinda puts people off, due to the sheer silliness of the ordeal.
People can have whatever opinion they want - objectively, it doesn't mean they are right (see flat-earthers) and may not be anything more than their preconceptions funneled into intolerance.
You see it a lot with Age of Sigmar, but again everyone is allowed to have their opinions. As soon as people throw out "It's my opinion, so I can't be wrong" you've closed your mind to open communication, honest deliberation and personal growth.

Now to keep things on track, Shadespire seems like it's coming a long nicely - but I will probably reserve judgement until we see the finished product. Have to many other projects to work on.

seems purely to exist for Stomcast to simply exist as a range. 

Oh I doubt that, GW could've added them to old world fluff in a number of ways. From Sigmar's own chaos champion/daemons to Gelt combining necromancy and metal magic.

Even those who lie the setting have to admit it still needs work 

Well, the appeal is that it's in a constant state of growth of fleshing out and we get to take part in it so I suppose that's true.

, I dislike the fact my two favourite factions are now Basically blood sacrifices for Stormcast to exist.

I'd wait a bit before writing them off, knights and skeletons are a vital cornerstone of fantasy.

have to hope Tomb Kings will appear in total war. 

They're 100% in, just a matter of when the dlc is out.

ill have to see if it's just Stormcast vs Khorne again ill pass. 

Possible but I doubt it since ShadeSpire was taking advantage of the new starter set and their new battletomes.

We'll have to wait and see, though.

I never said my opinion was correct. I just said it was mine. Honestly I've reached a point where I'm apathetic towards Stormcast and Khorne. AoS needs a lot of work to bring it up to par with Fantasy as it was.

I just don't want to get attached to a setting when it can be blown up at whim so I choose not to. I'm quite prepared to discuss it with anyone but it would need to be compelling in order for me to even start to warm to it. I'm not saying I can't I'm just saying that honestly it seems lacklustre and so ... meh.

The only thing I would like to know is what the cardstock for the board is like.

Also As Jerry Would say " Hungry for Apples ? "

 StupidYellow wrote:

Spoiler:

Neronoxx wrote:
Nobody is angry - I think that dome people are just a little chafed that we were discussing apples, and then someone came in complaining that those apples aren't oranges.
I mean, it's always apples and oranges with every game - but when someone doesn't like a game for *actual, fact based reasons* then it kinda puts people off, due to the sheer silliness of the ordeal.
People can have whatever opinion they want - objectively, it doesn't mean they are right (see flat-earthers) and may not be anything more than their preconceptions funneled into intolerance.
You see it a lot with Age of Sigmar, but again everyone is allowed to have their opinions. As soon as people throw out "It's my opinion, so I can't be wrong" you've closed your mind to open communication, honest deliberation and personal growth.

Now to keep things on track, Shadespire seems like it's coming a long nicely - but I will probably reserve judgement until we see the finished product. Have to many other projects to work on.

I never said my opinion was correct. I just said it was mine. Honestly I've reached a point where I'm apathetic towards Stormcast and Khorne. AoS needs a lot of work to bring it up to par with Fantasy as it was.

I just don't want to get attached to a setting when it can be blown up at whim so I choose not to. I'm quite prepared to discuss it with anyone but it would need to be compelling in order for me to even start to warm to it. I'm not saying I can't I'm just saying that honestly it seems lacklustre and so ... meh.

The only thing I would like to know is what the cardstock for the board is like.

Also As Jerry Would say " Hungry for Apples ? "

I think he wasn't refering to your comment, but 6monkey's, when he was speaking about opinions.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

 Johnny The Lictor wrote:
Normal skellies have been sold out. Does this mean that they're getting replaced by these?

On a similar note, the Blood Knights no longer appear under Grand Alliance Death when filtering by "All Armies of Death" or by "Soulblight". They still appear via the search function, though, and are still available to order. You know, if you want to pay $100 for finecast.

The filters are very wonky.

There was a time when the Tau Empire Codex didn't appear under the Tau Empire heading.

Mephiston shows up with the novels.

 StupidYellow wrote:

Okay first I want to say I dislike the AoS setting, it's poorly written for the most part and seems purely to exist for Stomcast to simply exist as a range. Even those who lie the setting have to admit it still needs work

AoS was created (and the Old World exploded) because of a combination of poor sales for WHFB and IP protection following the Chapterhouse Lawsuit saga, when they got told that they didn't own or create things like geometric shapes such as triangles, arrows and so forth. Since a huge proportion of WHFB was lifted from both generic fantasy and Citadel's pre-Warhammer Historical range of models with a twist (or skulls) added, they decided to re-invent the whole lot with new, silly-but-trademarkable names such as Orruks, Aelfs, Duardin, Ogoes, Troggiths and so forth. Being able to now have free reign to add wholly-new factions and models such as Sigmarines was just a bonus for them, and now with things like the Steampunk Squats they're really hitting their stride with the new models.

As for the setting vs WHFB. it is what it is. AoS is here to stay and they're not rolling it back for WHFB anytime soon - or probably ever outside of specialist games. I personally don't care for the AoS setting, but the game itself seems okay so far (I haven't played it much) and I simply use the rules with the WHFB "setting" (as I do with KoW). As many have said, it's not hard to shoehorn in the various AoS factions into the Old World if that's your background bag, since The Old World happily ripped everything in sight off anyway.

edit - typo

I'm sure the CH, and Ip thing was a factor. AoS had very poor sales in the beginning, until the compendium and other " patches" were put in. I'm not disputing your facts, because they are true.

But, and you can't tell me otherwise because of several Pointers Stormcast are now going to be the flagship of their fantasy game ( the statue, them being front n center in every box game, and promotional artwork, even books not related to them they turn up ) Fantasy probably needed a poster boy. But Sigmarines? really?

As I said. It is what it is - and for good reason. Sigmarines provide a good poster boy for the AoS IP.

They're a faction that is "good", "human", "faceless" (which means that you can project yourself onto them, no matter what you look like or your ethnicity) and they're shown as kicking ass. Their look is based to a degree on a combination of Space Marines and Knights (and Space Marines were originally based on Chaos Knights/Chaos Warriors in terms of the overall look and profile). They look like videogame action heroes, with a look inspired by many other IP - many of those things being inspired by GW artwork anyway.

Much easier to identify with than German Landsknechts or pop-culture Arthurian-French Knights.

We know from many other games and companies' discussion, that the most approachable faction type for new gamers, and one of the most popular overall across many games are "good guy humans". Because they're more relatable than mystic elves and more palatable than being the bad guys.

They're fine. They are the Space Marines of Fantasy. We all know that, and I'm ok with that.

*Shrugs*

I sure as hell like Stormcast better than Khorne Blood-everythings. Stormcast actually look really cool to me when painted in other schemes than constant monochrome gold-everything.

As there's no community for it around me, I have no interest in playing AoS, but I have a much-loved Stormcast warband for small skirmish games by other companies, where I made my own personal chunk of the AoS realms that's not so crazy balls-to-the-wall extreme, and allows me to play some great skirmish games with my Warhammer models.

Shadespire would be a sure-sell for me if it weren't hex-based so I could use all my terrain.

It's a boardgame more than a miniatures game, so terrain isn't important . Kinda like Blood Bowl or Gorechosen. Since the game looks promising, I'll likely pick it up. I honestly quite like the Golden Stormcast scheme as well, though I haven't decided how I'll paint my own ones.

Again there is very little to disagree, I never liked Historical armies, its why I play fantasy / sifi/ punk settings. Will I ever be okay with the Golden Hammer men?, I just do not care for them that is the best i can do.

But I'm not going to ignore them or not fight against them part of me wants to have a friendly rivalry with a Stormcast player. Bretonnia were the only human army i had for fantasy. that was due more to do with Arthurian legends than anything else probably.

My only brief observation so far is that people have said this game has no terrain but you still paint up your figures as usual. GW fans seem to be all over it. However one of the biggest complaints by GW fans against Warmahordes is that they play on plain tables with no or flat terrain. I guess the Geedub logo is more important than the game or gameplay.

I think a table that's meant to represent an imposing temple or impenetrable wood where they're made of made of fuzzy felt (or torn scraps of paper)

functional though they are

are different from a game that's not meant to have terrain in the first place (although if they start expanding it I wonder how long it will be before it does)

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
My only brief observation so far is that people have said this game has no terrain but you still paint up your figures as usual. GW fans seem to be all over it. However one of the biggest complaints by GW fans against Warmahordes is that they play on plain tables with no or flat terrain. I guess the Geedub logo is more important than the game or gameplay.

It's unlikely to be the same people complaining about the lack of scenery in WMH that are all over this for having no terrain. Also this is more boardgame-y by the looks of things so it's not really equivalent.

Granted I've not played this game, but in a totally open terrainless board using 'gangs' of citadel miniatures, how would those skeletons (not known for shooting skills) take on say a bunch of those gold space marines with stormbolters?
Either the board is small enough to allow cc very quickly, thus favouring cc armies, or open enough for shooters to have a major advantage. Terrain is what usually adds balance to this problem.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Granted I've not played this game, but in a totally open terrainless board using 'gangs' of citadel miniatures, how would those skeletons (not known for shooting skills) take on say a bunch of those gold space marines with stormbolters?
Either the board is small enough to allow cc very quickly, thus favouring cc armies, or open enough for shooters to have a major advantage. Terrain is what usually adds balance to this problem.

It's a pit fighting game played on what looks like an A3 sized board, no one so far has missile weapons.

Also storm bolters are from 40k.

Ben2 wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Granted I've not played this game, but in a totally open terrainless board using 'gangs' of citadel miniatures, how would those skeletons (not known for shooting skills) take on say a bunch of those gold space marines with stormbolters?
Either the board is small enough to allow cc very quickly, thus favouring cc armies, or open enough for shooters to have a major advantage. Terrain is what usually adds balance to this problem.

It's a pit fighting game played on what looks like an A3 sized board, no one so far has missile weapons.

Ok. Makes more sense. I hope the cards add some decent tactics, otherwise it's just move them towards each other till they touch, then roll dice.

Ben2 wrote:

Also storm bolters are from 40k.

My bad.. boltstorm pistols. #sigh

As a boardgamer and wargames, I do have a bit to say about the terrain and such.

For starters, the models are pawns. Models are always pawns, but they are especially so in this game. By that, I mean they are a 3d representation of rules variances that are present on the board.
If a game is meant to be played in 15 mins, set up and take down time is important in that concern.
It is especially important to a demographic that has zero desire to put together and paint models.

These are colored snapfit models, so classical hobbyist wargamers aren't the target demographic for this, they are an ancillary target.

GW has stated that they want this game sold as widely as possible. This means we could be seeing this breaking into Barnes and Noble and other large box shops other than hobby stores. But these big box shops need to see it be successful becore they will bother to make large orders from GW. I see this happen with lots of boardgames.

So, while you can paint the models and are encouraged to do so (welcome to the hobby! You can buy our paints/brushes/etc. here...) This game is meant to have the game come first and the models are a secondary concern.

That is new ground for GW as they haven't had that design ethic in decades. I plan to encourage it if the game is any good. Good game design should always come before models, and reinforcing that with monies is a way to vote.

If you really want terrain on the board, there are only a handful of hexes that need it. As a hobbyist wargamers, I'm sure you can manage something g pretty nice without relying on GW to hold your hand , right? Right?! RIGHT!!??!?!

 Hellfury wrote:

If you really want terrain on the board, there are only a handful of hexes that need it. As a hobbyist wargamers, I'm sure you can manage something g pretty nice without relying on GW to hold your hand , right? Right?! RIGHT!!??!?!

I'm pretty sure official, never before released, revolutionary, hexagonal, state of the art, 4 sprue kit terrain is on the way . All in all I don't get what all the craze is about - this game looks something like gorechosen but with multiple heroes - yay...

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
My only brief observation so far is that people have said this game has no terrain but you still paint up your figures as usual. GW fans seem to be all over it. However one of the biggest complaints by GW fans against Warmahordes is that they play on plain tables with no or flat terrain. I guess the Geedub logo is more important than the game or gameplay.

You heard of Blood Bowl?

 Hellfury wrote:
As a boardgamer and wargames, I do have a bit to say about the terrain and such.

For starters, the models are pawns. Models are always pawns, but they are especially so in this game. By that, I mean they are a 3d representation of rules variances that are present on the board.
If a game is meant to be played in 15 mins, set up and take down time is important in that concern.
It is especially important to a demographic that has zero desire to put together and paint models.

These are colored snapfit models, so classical hobbyist wargamers aren't the target demographic for this, they are an ancillary target.

GW has stated that they want this game sold as widely as possible. This means we could be seeing this breaking into Barnes and Noble and other large box shops other than hobby stores. But these big box shops need to see it be successful becore they will bother to make large orders from GW. I see this happen with lots of boardgames.

So, while you can paint the models and are encouraged to do so (welcome to the hobby! You can buy our paints/brushes/etc. here...) This game is meant to have the game come first and the models are a secondary concern.

That is new ground for GW as they haven't had that design ethic in decades. I plan to encourage it if the game is any good. Good game design should always come before models, and reinforcing that with monies is a way to vote.

Thanks for the description. My brain kinda had this sitting as a fantasy SWA, but it sounds closer to fantasy X-wing, or Loka.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
My only brief observation so far is that people have said this game has no terrain but you still paint up your figures as usual. GW fans seem to be all over it. However one of the biggest complaints by GW fans against Warmahordes is that they play on plain tables with no or flat terrain. I guess the Geedub logo is more important than the game or gameplay.

You heard of Blood Bowl?

Blood what?

Seriously though, the tactics of a scoring ball game is somewhat different to that of an all out battle to kill the other side.

Orc player: There's a ball....?

 Gimgamgoo wrote:


Seriously though, the tactics of a scoring ball game is somewhat different to that of an all out battle to kill the other side.

Betrayal of Calth
Imperial Assault Skirmish
Old-school Battletech on Hex-maps
Ogre
Memoir '44
Etc...

Hybrid board-/wargames aren't that new, and they usually don't intend to give the all out hobby-experience of a fully fledged tabletop wargame, especially as terrain goes.

I see comparing apples and oranges is strong in this thread. Game looks like Team Arena Gorechosen. That sounds ace to me! It isn't a 'wargame' so wouldn't need terrain. But don't let that stop an excuse to have a needless pop at someone or something.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
As a boardgamer and wargames, I do have a bit to say about the terrain and such.

For starters, the models are pawns. Models are always pawns, but they are especially so in this game. By that, I mean they are a 3d representation of rules variances that are present on the board.
If a game is meant to be played in 15 mins, set up and take down time is important in that concern.
It is especially important to a demographic that has zero desire to put together and paint models.

These are colored snapfit models, so classical hobbyist wargamers aren't the target demographic for this, they are an ancillary target.

GW has stated that they want this game sold as widely as possible. This means we could be seeing this breaking into Barnes and Noble and other large box shops other than hobby stores. But these big box shops need to see it be successful becore they will bother to make large orders from GW. I see this happen with lots of boardgames.

So, while you can paint the models and are encouraged to do so (welcome to the hobby! You can buy our paints/brushes/etc. here...) This game is meant to have the game come first and the models are a secondary concern.

That is new ground for GW as they haven't had that design ethic in decades. I plan to encourage it if the game is any good. Good game design should always come before models, and reinforcing that with monies is a way to vote.

Thanks for the description. My brain kinda had this sitting as a fantasy SWA, but it sounds closer to fantasy X-wing, or Loka.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
My only brief observation so far is that people have said this game has no terrain but you still paint up your figures as usual. GW fans seem to be all over it. However one of the biggest complaints by GW fans against Warmahordes is that they play on plain tables with no or flat terrain. I guess the Geedub logo is more important than the game or gameplay.

You heard of Blood Bowl?

Blood what?

Seriously though, the tactics of a scoring ball game is somewhat different to that of an all out battle to kill the other side.

From watching the demo video which bols did https://youtu.be/UFIrkx9uwdU , you can win either by killing your opponents or by achieving objectives. There is a pile of objective cards from which 3 can be drawn each round. You get one point for each kill or each objective claimed. A game consists of three rounds so there are a potential 9 objective points claimable per game, so winning without killing a single model is possible. The objectives are secret and only revealed at the end of each round.
At first glance there seems quite a bit of depth to the game with different board layouts, different objective cards and different buffing cards to play with.
Also with only 12 activations per team each game, not wasting those moves will be very important. I'm really looking forward to giving it a go. I hope that it lives up to its promise and has the variety and opportunities for tactical play that the early info seems to suggest.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see a line of suitable 3D terrain for the game. A more durable playing surface would be welcome as well, either a mat with a hex grid or a RoB style board with the hex grid moulded in as pavement slabs. And if not, a few Garden of Morr sets combined with a matt from a non GW company would work fine IMO.

Thank you insolent whippersnappers for your sidebar.

I'd heard that the game was the new cool Mordhiem take for AOS, I'm glad you all set me straight, and now, after seeing what I have, I have no desire for the game at this time.
Some of you have a little bit of a mutt level, and that is ok. As I said before, My opinion is mine. It is the correct one, and yours are wrong.

Unlike you, I can appreciate that you have different opinions, even if they are wrong, even though all of them are all....wait for it- wrong.

As to you all, each of you get two points on the young kids peeing on my lawn meter and being entirely too serious in an entirely unserious conversation. Your snarky degradations are welcome, but not required when I am honestly laughing at your confrontational back and fourth on your rather ... wrong opinions.

Like I said, I still can't get into the setting, it doesn't fit in the grand scheme, and really doesn't develop into anything other then a band aid over a sucking chest wound.

My local Wrong Friendly Local Game Store discussed the game a little with me, but in that, the warband fighting game was described as a new Mordhiem type game, that fought along with the new AOS setting, and that you had warbands for each of the factions. As with all of you, of course his opinion was, as well- wrong.

I will of course be interested in a firsthand look at those undead, if they are compatible with the over 50+ that I already have on hand. I have a necromancer that can use some good characterful figures such as those for my Mordhiem warband. Hope they match up. I think I might also have to use some greenstuff and paint, and upgrade some ragged clothing and hoods on some of my skeletons, and might have to think about the upgraded bases.

Now, you snotty little kids run along and get off of my lawn. I need to go change my adult diaper.

I think that GW has "confirmed" (Take this with a grain of salt) that they are working on bringing back Mordheim. I don't know if in the AoS setting or old Mordheim Setting, like Bloodbowl, but to be honest... is it gonna make a difference?

Mordheim has always been a very... "special" place, very bizarre in contrast with the rest of the old world.
To me the only difference in the setting if they make Mordheim a city in AoS its the inclusion of Sigmarines and things like Tech Dwarfs, things that I don't think are a big contrast with the crazy setting of Mordheim:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/steamtradingcards/images/8/81/Mordheim_City_of_the_Damned_Artwork_14.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150605030017

http://i.imgur.com/qj5fwy5.jpg

In fact, the city of Hamerhall, the second Heroquest after SilverTower, could be a perfect setting to have the AoS Mordheim.

I can see an AoS Mordheim type game being a wider setting than the one city.

Many civilisations fell during the Age of Chaos, all now ripe for plundering, given Chaos is being driven back.