Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

so, if i am reading Glorious Intervention correctly:

Squad 1: Chaos Champion wielding two lightning claws with squad
Squad 2: Space Marine Captain with Powerfist,Command squad Sgt with power sword.


Squad 1 charges Squad 2.

Round 1, Squad 1 turn: Chaos champion challenges Sgt Accepts, Nothing happens drawn combat.

Round 2, Squad 2's turn:
Chaos Champion kills Sgt,
Space Marine Captain declares Glorious Invention because challenge is considered to be going til end of phase, Space Marine captains wounds must all be allocated on Chaos Champion first before he hits rest of squad.

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'm gonna say Fear, Acute Senses, Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. These rules are practically useless and superfluous to boot.

While I agree with the others I wouldn't say vector dancer is useless, it makes flyers a lot more maneuverable. It very often allows me to shoot a vehicles rear armour instead of the side and it gives you much greater control over what you can do in the following turn.

Well, let us see:

Fear. Almost worthless in the current edition, the top three armies (which are the most popular) either have masses of LD or in one case outright ignore it. Even beyond them, most armies have access to LD9+ and even LD8 Guard have access to Company Banners that let you re-roll morale checks, and a Baneblade with the Command Tank and Commissariat Cre upgrades just about ensures nothing will run. And this is before we factor in priests.

Soul Blaze. This rule usually boils down to just another dice roll that one has to make. And in all honesty in my entire time playing I have seen about 4 casualties caused by it (and this was back when Timmy spammed homebrewed units with soulblaze)

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

Concussive. It does what exactly? Most units with it will utterly demolish the foe in CC anyway, And those that wont are what, I1 anyway.

Shotguns for Guard veterans. Not really a special rule, but it makes no sense. Unlike Muhren shotguns Guard shotguns are S3. You lose 12" of range and the ability to FRFSRF to gain the ability to assault after shooting. Yes, assault. With the second worst melee faction in the game.
9That being said, my Engineers unit [PF, HF, 2 Meltaguns, Carapce, Demolitions, Vox and Shotguns] has earned a somewhat notorious reputation amongst my opponents - wiping out a 30K Veteran unit built for CC in CC might have helped)

Outflanking. Although this is a personal one - the rule makes no sense. How come you can freely walk your units right into point blank range with my units at any point up to and including my deployment zone, and yet I cannot shoot you as you approach? Sure people claim "oh it helps discourage gunlines" but the only gunline armies that actually need a nerf can quite easily negate it/make it incredibly costly to do so.

Seize the Initiative. A 1-in-6 chance for my opponent to take both the Tactical AND Strategic initiative with no downsides. Who's good idea was this?

Snapshoot. For when you have to have to make the choice between moving or shooting. Of course, you cannot shoot a weapon with explosive ammunition, and shooting at charging enemies is really hard, especially when they are making no attempt to use cover.

Hull Points. Why oh why do vehicles have wounds, and why oh why do ineffectual (glancing) hits cause them to lose wounds.

 roflmajog wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'm gonna say Fear, Acute Senses, Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. These rules are practically useless and superfluous to boot.

While I agree with the others I wouldn't say vector dancer is useless, it makes flyers a lot more maneuverable. It very often allows me to shoot a vehicles rear armour instead of the side and it gives you much greater control over what you can do in the following turn.

Vector dancer is a pain when being used by an exarch in a crimson hunter...

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

Personally, I see it used a lot. Sometimes you don't have the time or firepower to destroy a unit holding an objective. I've won more than one game by having a weak ObSec tarpit unit hold a crucial objective while locked in combat with the enemy deathstar unit.

Because it's funny in the final round when a few surviving grots take the objective from decurion necrons and grab the win. Or an obsec trukk with reinforced ram tank shocking it's way into an objective in a maelstrom game.

Glorious Intervention Convo: I considered using it on Monday when my invisible Chaos Sorcerer was in a challenge with an invisible Belakor while Ahriman was also in the fight. But then I remembered that Belakor had a potentially instant-deathing sword and Ahriman didn't have Eternal Warrior, so I decided not to. That has been the only time ever that I considered taking advantage of that rule, and I still didn't .

Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

Wow, okay, it actually does something! But:

 Jambles wrote:

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

In all honesty if I am close enough to the enemy for Obsec to become an issue I have already lost the objective. Better to blast the enemy off it and risk losing out elsewhere.

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

That only really happens in a mismatch.
I've lost games because one model with Obj Sec survived the scouring.

Obsec really isn't useless, neither is vector dancer.

I agree soul blaze needs a massive biff tough. Lots of rolling for not a lot of effect.

Soul blaze, crusader, fear, strike down concussive to name a few

Soul blaze never does anything

Crusaders just worthless. Considering abaddon has to have it as warlord

Fear never does what it needs to

Strike down and concussive are never on good enough weapons in combat or ranged, really. Concussive only works on a decent weapon vs an independent character

How about all the special rules that just give multiple special rules?

Not useless, kinda dumb though.

A bit out there, but, the Vessel of Shyak the seeker is way up there on useless rules. A CSM rule that only affects other csm with a specific icon .

I mean crusader is not bad in 30k same with fear. I think the bigger issue with a lot of these rules such as fear and crusader is leadership abilities are way to prevalent.

Like there is no reason everything should have fearless / atsknf / rerolls morals everywhere.

This is one of the biggest issues in the core rule set is gw decided there is no reason for leadership to exist.

Fear tests are one reason why phantasm grenades suck for dark eldar. It could be good if leadership debuffs were more prevalent in the army, we could stack the fear tests and they also could pin if a unit had ATSKNF. If they had all 3 of those things they might be worth taking. However that is not the case and it sucks massively.

Feels like Fearless and Death Korps should be the only two things that stops fear entirely.

All of them, now....

Sorry: couldn't resist. Also, not true, If I don't move on to 8th, I'll carry on as if it hadn't happened....

Obsec is basically the most important thing if you fight Necrons in a decurion, as you can never simply "blast them of the objective". The rule might be situational in kill point games, but it's far from useless, I build whole armies around it and it's the only reason people use the Chaos Warband instead of sth. else.