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Martel732 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Every time Eldar get an update, they get "because Space Elfs should just be better" treatment, and rocket to the top of the power heap if they werent already therr. And I say that as someone with 5k+ points of Eldar.

Not so! I distinctly recall shelving my pre-Wraithknight Eldar for years on end. Dark days, my friend, dark days.

Right now Eldar is just almost right. Just fix a few underpowered units and they'd be fine.

There have never been true dark days for eldar.

You clearly didn't play Eldar during 3rd pre-Serpent...

I played against them. They were still a respectable list. Not marine good, but decent. I know decent is code for crap with Eldar now, but I can't help that.

Martel732 wrote:
I played against them. They were still a respectable list. Not marine good, but decent. I know decent is code for crap with Eldar now, but I can't help that.

It is my hope that Eldar will finally be decent in 8th edition.

In fact, I hope that Eldar is the MOST decent faction in all of 8th.

I hope that they're even more decent than the Tau.

And I hope that wraithknights, scatter bikes, wave serpents and wraithguard are the most decent units in the entire army list.

I am also confused by this. I'm actually thinking that fighting and shooting is resolved in the same kind of phase. That would explain the fall back option to let other units shoot and what wounds get resolved first. Im thinking 2 main phases first is movmeny next is shooting/combat.This whole thing is foggy to me though. I'm suprised at how much info on 8th they are actually dropping.

It's still a bit confusing without the whole of the rules to glue it all together.

nateprati wrote:
I am also confused by this. I'm actually thinking that fighting and shooting is resolved in the same kind of phase. That would explain the fall back option to let other units shoot and what wounds get resolved first. Im thinking 2 main phases first is movmeny next is shooting/combat.This whole thing is foggy to me though. I'm suprised at how much info on 8th they are actually dropping.

Phases break down like this:

Movement: Move units, run units, retreat units from combat

Psycic Phase: Mental Pew Pews with 2d6 to meet the required roll to use a power.

Shooting: Dakka Dakka. No real change except that only Pistols can shoot when within 1" of an enemy unit.

Charge: Pick a unit to charge with one of your units that is w/in 12". Enemy unit Overwatches and then the chosen unit move 2D6, hopefully closing with the enemy unit.

Combat: Charging units attack first then alternating combats between players.

Morale: Hinted its similar to AoS Battleshock. Will find out on the next rules spoiler

Looks like my slannesh daemons still get to strike first!

Considering given information I would say pile-in to nearest enemy is not a nice thing to HtH oriented army. Here is the example: (sorry for poor painting, it is a nightmare to draw via phone)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5st7gy6cffo6kd/1.png?dl=0

Red guys is about to charge yellow ones. Yellow uses tank as melee cover:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/okb5jcj7xgqmx2r/39468153-1851-4b5b-9aef-233423b667fd.png?dl=0

And now 3 of 5 red models have to waste their attacks on the tank as it is the closest model:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iruc6jazbuzqf6/57bc05ac-71ec-4956-b693-85214375a61b.png?dl=0

Although I don't wish to stand in the way of those who want to trash entire lists, builds, armies and factions due to the interpretation of how a single aspect of a single rule within a single phase may or may not play out, In a game that hasn't even been released yet and about which we don't know all the info, I just say this. Please send me your various disbanded forces.

Yeah , I get a feeling ebay is going to be gold mine when 8th launches.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
So consolidations into new combats is back in a slightly changed manner...on paper that sounds like it'll kill any idea of running an IG infantry based army viably, there just isn't enough tablespace for such armies to fit and have adequate spacing. We'll see if I'm wrong, but the ability to move about and lock new units in combat in such a "gimmicky" way really feels open to abuse, just the way consolidating into new combats was in 3rd and 4th.

Abuse is a possibility but remember that I think we are also getting the ability to withdraw from combat in good order so gunline armies are certainly not DoA.

I just want a system where it feels like any style of army is equally viable if played well. 40K has always been vulnerable to rock-paper-scissors syndrome where certain match-ups favour one opponent over the other from the outset. With CC being easier to achieve but also easier to leave, my hope is that some balance can be restored here. It remains to be seen if this is the case in practice or if it will just create a new set of imbalances.

I think thats what everyone wants. Part of the problem is that there are too many armies operating over too large a scale range trying to portray forces of radically different natures, many that would not face each other in the manner a 40k battle portrays (e.g. Dark Eldar would never face an IG tank company in a pitched frontal firefight the way a 40k battle would start). Part of the problem, at least in this instance, is also simply board space, there isnt enough room for an IG infantry army to properly deploy and spread out, and moving out of CC, even if allowed, can likewise be difficult if there is no room to actually move to.

I suppose with the removal of templates you wont need to spread your guys out as much.

I quite like that idea at least. Will make tight close formations look cinematic


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As you're in combat if you're within an inch now.

Do you think it'd be legal to just advance your troops into combat, thus not triggering overwatch but forfeiting a guaranteed strike first?

One thing that took me some time to figure out with this rule in AoS is that as long as you end the "pile in" closer to the model that was closest to you before beginning the move, you are allowed to move even closer to a second unit if able.

So the model that is the closest to me this turn might not be so on the next turn. It allows for a lot of movement during combat and a big pile of fighting models can move across the board as models pile and casualties removed.

So if you want to lock models down and stop them from moving, make sure to get into base contact.