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My God, the sun, the heat, the stench......you couldn't pay me enough to participate in that dogpile. Truly shameful.

Just one clarification the on fire safety concerns etc.

After game 1, they removed a section of tables which increased the amount of space people had to navigate and get to and from the fire escapes. Up to that point though, they were in breach of the safety regs and laws (and it would probably have stayed that way if no one had raised it).

Kdash wrote:
Just one clarification the on fire safety concerns etc.

After game 1, they removed a section of tables which increased the amount of space people had to navigate and get to and from the fire escapes. Up to that point though, they were in breach of the safety regs and laws (and it would probably have stayed that way if no one had raised it).

Aka worried about being shut down if the fire safety was reported, or fined afterwards for breach of health and safety which can be quite a serious offence.

You say there budgets are tight?

Well safety breach fines are not small.

Kdash wrote:
Just one clarification the on fire safety concerns etc.

After game 1, they removed a section of tables which increased the amount of space people had to navigate and get to and from the fire escapes. Up to that point though, they were in breach of the safety regs and laws (and it would probably have stayed that way if no one had raised it).

There was no appreciable difference in the amount of space available after game 1. My partner who was with me, was pretty much unable to watch any game I played, because there was physically no space for her around the table. There was about 1 foot clearence between tables, and I kept knocking into the person playing on the table behind me as we were fighting for space.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

Kdash wrote:
Just one clarification the on fire safety concerns etc.

After game 1, they removed a section of tables which increased the amount of space people had to navigate and get to and from the fire escapes. Up to that point though, they were in breach of the safety regs and laws (and it would probably have stayed that way if no one had raised it).

There was no appreciable difference in the amount of space available after game 1. My partner who was with me, was pretty much unable to watch any game I played, because there was physically no space for her around the table. There was about 1 foot clearence between tables, and I kept knocking into the person playing on the table behind me as we were fighting for space.

How do you even go to the bathroom easily? Games could not have possibly finished in time with all that jostling.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

Kdash wrote:
Just one clarification the on fire safety concerns etc.

After game 1, they removed a section of tables which increased the amount of space people had to navigate and get to and from the fire escapes. Up to that point though, they were in breach of the safety regs and laws (and it would probably have stayed that way if no one had raised it).

There was no appreciable difference in the amount of space available after game 1. My partner who was with me, was pretty much unable to watch any game I played, because there was physically no space for her around the table. There was about 1 foot clearence between tables, and I kept knocking into the person playing on the table behind me as we were fighting for space.

How do you even go to the bathroom easily? Games could not have possibly finished in time with all that jostling.

Doing anything during the round other than playing the game would have been inadvisable and extremely difficult. Fortunately I had my partner to fetch food and drink for me, which made things a little eaiser,and I took bathroom breaks between rounds.
I can't speak for anyone else in this regard.

It was tight at times, I agree. Game 1, I was stuck between my table and a wall with only enough space for 2 people to shuffle past each other, but, if I am honest, beyond that, I didn’t have that much of an issue moving around when I needed to. Sure, it was lots of dodging and weaving around people, but the important thing was – after game 1, there was a main walk space down the centre of the room, which generally allowed 2 people to walk side by side down without any issue.

I’m not defending the layout, it was far from ideal and comfortable, but I also didn’t find it as much of an issue as some other people did. Purely my own experience though. (It is also worth noting, the tables on the other floors for the 40k GT, had plenty of space. The issue was with the main room)

As for going to the toilet and getting drinks etc, I just did all that before each game, which made things easier and then doesn’t distract from the game for either player. I understand that, “when you have to go, you have to go”, and it’s not always controllable for some people, but – even though it sounds harsh, for the majority of people, it is controllable and comes down to personally foresight and common sense.

I do accept the point, that it would have been difficult for a spectator to be around the table comfortably though. 2 back to back players, a spectator and someone walking past would have made for a difficult 30 seconds.

 iddy00711 wrote:
Solutions
Move the LGT out of London to other cities in the UK (ie Manchester, Cardiff, Leeds etc). This would require a name change of course... EGT/BGT.
Doing this would bring the costs down and potentially increase the size of the venue. London is an international city, not a British one, moving the event each year would be chance to showcase the 'Best of Britain' for the international community.

Given that the LGT was specifically intended as a response to the lack of large tournaments in London, this is a completely counter-productive solution.

Moving the tournament elsewhere in the country might adjust the costs, but for anyone in the South of England, your ticket being £10 better value is a bad deal if your train tickets cost £30 more.
Shifting the event to other venues in (or near) London might be a solution (as there were issues with the London Stadium), but moving it elsewhere in the country is pointless, because then the question again becomes "well, where's the big London event?"

It's entirely possible that, yes, the different prices for different parts of the country would give events an advantage as far as beating a London based venue on value for money, but we should be creating new events for that rather than moving existing ones, because often an event's location is part of its selling points.

Sounds like this was a real show. Did anything go right? Did anyone have fun? Was there anything that made it worth it?

From my perspective, if I had traveled from the States to London to play, and saw styrofoam terrain on unpainted tables, no food/water, very crowded play area... I'd be very much inclined to just drop and wonder around in London as a tourist instead.

Everything I saw advertised about this event made it sound like a premium, awesome good time. What happened?!?!?

For the love of Mork (or is it Gork?) that terrain is absolutely pathetic. I don't expect it to be master craftsman made stuff painted to display case standards but something above the "I found this in the trash bin 5 minutes ago" standard is to be expected. They don't want the players to show up with unpainted minis or some soda cans for counts as (drop pods, Killa kans, etc) so the terrain they provide should be held to a similar standard. I love me some makeshift terrain but you gotta at least put some effort into it or be creative instead of blocks of foam.

This is actually a pretty interesting perspective about the terrain from someone who plays 40K competitively

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is actually a pretty interesting perspective about the terrain from someone who plays 40K competitively

SG

He really has a point, but at the same time it shows that 8th edition is much, much worse than prior editions for competitive play.

M.

It seems like they got all the nice terrain for AoS.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Sounds like this was a real show. Did anything go right? Did anyone have fun? Was there anything that made it worth it?

Sub-games like 30k etc looked decent with nice looking if bit sparse terrain.

 iddy00711 wrote:

Support people with disabilities such as dyslexia, dyspraxia, autism etc.


People should be given the option of declaring their disabilities, which in turn should be catered for. People with dyslexia shouldn't be penalized for making a mistake with their lists. People with dyspraxia should be given extra time to finish their games. People with a physical disability should be given their own table to avoid the need to move around.

So, a few points here:

1. Even if someone has dyslexia i should expect they have a legal list. Ultimately it is on you to bring a legal list, and if you have dyslexia take the time to check your list with someone who doesn't have dyslexia before the event.

2. I don't see how you can give extra time to someone to finish their game, logistically. Rounds have a scheduled start and end, which factors in break time, etc. I would not want to play someone with Dyspraxia if it meant that I wouldn't get a lunch break because the round was going 30 minutes longer.

3. Fixing tables is a logistical nightmare, but i agree that the setup should just be better in general. Up the price of the venue and don't cram people in like sardines.

In general everyone should be held to the same standards.

tneva82 wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Sounds like this was a real show. Did anything go right? Did anyone have fun? Was there anything that made it worth it?

Sub-games like 30k etc looked decent with nice looking if bit sparse terrain.

Watched a video somewhere where someone was reading a blog entry from someone who attended the LGT. Seems the AoS, 30K, Shadespire, and Necromunda tables all looked pretty good terrain-wise, but it was also stated that it could have been because people might have brought their own terrain for those games/events.

SG

Well also AoS terrain doesn't need to be as robust as 40k, because it's a simpler game.

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is actually a pretty interesting perspective about the terrain from someone who plays 40K competitively

SG

Damn that guy made a lot of sense, maybe the terrain did look bad but it was crucially LoS blocking so encouraged far more interesting games!

The point about the size and shape of the terrain is accurate but that does not preclude at least a base coat and dry brush at a minimum. Some flock to mimic vines or some carving detail or something like that would not have been terribly difficult either and would have not made it look like gak.

 Marmatag wrote:
Well also AoS terrain doesn't need to be as robust as 40k, because it's a simpler game.

Well, it has a lot less long distance shooting so there is limited need for line of sight blocking terrain. It is nice to have but less crucial.

 Kroem wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is actually a pretty interesting perspective about the terrain from someone who plays 40K competitively

SG

Damn that guy made a ot of sense, maybe the terrain did look bad but it was crucially LoS blocking so encouraged far more interesting games!

That's what was said on stream every time someone brought up the terrain.
It looks like utter gak but it was functional. And for a tournament I will take gak looking function terrain over good looking but useless stuff.

 Ordana wrote:
That's what was said on stream every time someone brought up the terrain.
It looks like utter gak but it was functional. And for a tournament I will take gak looking function terrain over good looking but useless stuff.

There is a value to well defined, functional, and consistent terrain for sure.

I think the big problem with the terrain is that the event required players' armies to be painted and based models but the model the TO supplied (the terrain) was the equivalent of barely put together. If you're going to require nice looking armies you should, at least, supply nice looking terrain.

 ServiceGames wrote:
Seems the AoS, 30K, Shadespire, and Necromunda tables all looked pretty good terrain-wise, but it was also stated that it could have been because people might have brought their own terrain for those games/events.

Speaking as the Inquisitor TO for the weekend, I was offered terrain support* (and I have to assume that other TOs were as well) - I ultimately declined it, as the final ticket sales worked out at a level where the terrain requirements were a level I could feasibly provide/transport myself, even given the relatively dense terrain that Inquisitor favours; being able to know and control exactly what I was working with made writing the plot-line and scenarios for the event much easier.

This, for example, was one of the tables we played on during the weekend. While I still plan to improve the set with doors and extra details it is, I would like to hope, aesthetically acceptable terrain:



A lot of people just seem to be lumping all the terrain at the London GT together, despite the fact that multiple sub-events were involved.

* I did see the terrain we were offered, and it was perfectly reasonable. However, the issue with using it for the main 40K event was that there just wasn't enough for that many tables to all have matching layouts.

 Kroem wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
This is actually a pretty interesting perspective about the terrain from someone who plays 40K competitively

SG

Damn that guy made a ot of sense, maybe the terrain did look bad but it was crucially LoS blocking so encouraged far more interesting games!

The first step of the hill was insufficently high to hide a jump pack model, a banner, a tall model, or anything of substance behind. While the two L shaped pieces in the corner were tall enough to block things, they were too small to hide anything but perhaps a 5 man scout squad behind.
I was not terribly enthused by their LOS blocking capability.

As other posters have noted elsewhere, there was zero space to hide any large models behind, so if you brought something like Mortarian, or Magnus, or 1 shadowsword, etc etc, along, and didn't get first turn, it was always dead.

Perhaps this was the intent.

Hi, could we all keep the discussion constructive please.

In response to the list issues, I have never been to a tournament with such a rigorous list submission. You could lose points by not having your list formatted correctly., even if it was technically correct. Here's an example...


ARMY FACTIONS: Demons, Thousand sons
TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 9
TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1998 pts
Battalion Detachment
Demons [ Points 977] + 5 CP
HQ1: Poxbringer(70), bale sword (0) - [70pts]
HQ2: Smallpox scrinver (75), plaguesword (0) ,a distended maw (0), disgusting sneeze (0)- [75]
Troop1: 3 Nurglings (54), claws and teeth x 3 (0) [54pts]
Troop2: 25 Bloodletters (175), Bloodreaper (0) hellblade x 25 (0), Demonic Icon (15) [190pts]
Troop3: 25 Plaguebearers (175), Plagueridden (0), plague sword x 25 (0) - [175pts]
Troop4: 25 Plaguebearers (175), Plagueridden (0), plague sword x 25 (0) – [175pts]
FA1: 7 Plague drones ( 238) , Plaguebringer (0), Prehensile proboscis x 7 (0), plague sword x 7 (0), death head x 7 (0) – [238pts]

Outrider detachment
Thousand sons [Points 576] +1CP
HQ3: Demon Prince of Tzeentch with wings [WARLORD] (170), pair of malefic talons (10), Relic (Helm of Third Eye) – [180pts]
Elite1: Tzaangor Shaman (82), Disk of Tzeetch (0), Force stave (8) – [90]
FA2: 6 Tzaangor Enlightened (90), Fatecaster great bow x 6(12) - 102
FA3: 6 Tzaangor Enlightened (90), Fatecaster great bow x 6(12) - 102
FA4: 6 Tzaangor Enlightened (90), Fatecaster great bow x 6(12) - 102

Super heavy auxiliary detachment
Thousand sons [points 445]
LOW1: Magnus the Red (445), Blade of Magnus [445]



I think it's good idea to submit a list and to make sure it's legal but to get penalized for making a small mistake before the event itself simply isnt fair.

If you don't specify formatting you get the worst readable gak you have ever seen.

 Ordana wrote:
If you don't specify formatting you get the worst readable gak you have ever seen.

This, if you ever look at the stuff that ends up on best coast pairing half the time its a hand scrawled note thats been in a sweaty pocket all day with no items or weapons listed. If all the items are listed the same on everyones sheet anyone will be able to find it when reviewing, speeding up the process that much quicker during gameplay.

 iddy00711 wrote:


Too Capitalistic

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Oh.... lol... sigh....

The more capitalism, the better.

I know I’m late to the party, but

A large glass' worth was £3.50

on a hot day, [Around 21 degrees C]

God you poms are soft.

(I know, I know, it’s a different story when you’re packing people in a sardine tin and so on, but the sheer audacity to call 21degC ‘a hot day’...)


Anyway, this all just reeks of poor organisation by people who bit off way more than they could chew. If you want an example of doing it right, look to Objective Secured - they know their capabilities and their limits, they grow them continuously which lets them have bigger and bigger events, but they never go beyond what they can handle. Their events are always at the highest standard, with proper terrain on every table, appropriate access to amenities for the number of people involved and running smoothly on the day. Their last event capped 120 people, a third of the London GT, but that involved turning people away once they hit the limit of their resources. They didn’t let hubris spoil their reputation or peoples’ experience of the day.