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Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Yeah I had the Robotech stuff (well the 1/3rd I was delivered by the lying sack of gak Kevin Siembeda) and used several in my large Battletech formations before selling them off.

They scale well, and while being slightly fiddly were far nicer than the average BT mech. It looks like they'll be covering most of the bases with the new minis -but anything left over is easy to find. The Robotech stuff became absurdly cheap (it was 60%+ off before it disappeared from some sites). I'm sitting on a couple of bags of excess starter kits...probably have a couple dozen of each in there if I ever get back into Btech

 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

And now the Impudent Mortal fellow comes up with this to complement the new mechs.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1141913215/mech-cockpit-simulator?ref=user_menu&fbclid=IwAR0q3lX9ue4L0-x_UItuGs0cmAGyxzkDiB6JunalwaRmUJK1UPs9PtVRhe4
It's too expensive for my budget but I wish I could get one of each of the basic 15.

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It has miniatures. Doesn't make it a miniatures game.

D&D has miniatures. Pathfinder has miniatures. I doubt a single one of them is necessary to play either game.


It is interesting that you used RPGs as an example. I suppose those are the only other games out there that have big minis lines but aren't miniature games. But is Battletech a RPG? No, that would be A Time of War, the RPG set in the Battletech universe.

RPGs use minis merely for player visualization, Battletech uses minis for much more, and while those rules are optional, they are only optional because Battletech can't seem to let old iterations completely die off.

But, to make my case for Battletech being a miniatures game:

Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.

The only reason an argument for it being "miniatures optional" as BrianDavion claims is because the game never dropped the holdover rules from 1st and 2nd edition. The game was, and continues to be crippled by that decision. But yeah, a 1000+ SKU model range is merely optional.

That mindset is why Battletech has been on life support for two decades. The game is a miniatures game that was never properly marketed, and its development was hindered by a refusal to drop the beer-and-pretzel-1980's-boxed-game mindset that it began with but from which it has long since moved on.


   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Having LOS/terrain rules does not make you a miniatures game, especially when said rules are binary and are played out in 2 dimensions.

I don't see what "having points for balance" has anything to do with miniatures games.

And it has a range of miniatures that are 100% optional. You can play the game with coins.

Alpha Strike is a miniatures game. BattleTech is not.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 03:23:28


   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





But, to make my case for Battletech being a miniatures game:


Fine and I'll summarily destroy your argument.

Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.


No it's not. because those rules don't interact with the minis at all. the line of sight, terrain etc is entirely set by the hexmap the game is played on. yes you can play with a mini to mark your unit. but it's not required. you can play Battletech with monopoly markers, toe nail clippings etc. Ohh BTW D&D also has rules for terrain, line of sight etc. but D&D isn't a table top mini game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.


Absolutely irrelevant, using points as a balancing agent is hardly unique to Mini games. it's a feature of tabletop wargames yes, of which battletech is. but it's not a MINIATURES GAME.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game


D&D also has a huge range of miniatures. therefore is D&D a minitures game? you seem to think RPGs are the only valid use of Minis in gaming outside of outright mini games. they're not.

The only reason an argument for it being "miniatures optional" as BrianDavion claims is because the game never dropped the holdover rules from 1st and 2nd edition. The game was, and continues to be crippled by that decision. But yeah, a 1000+ SKU model range is merely optional


the rules for running battletech as a miniatures game isn't even in the core rules. Yes using minis as markers is the norm. but that no more makes it a mini game then fething Monopoly is.I repeat the rules to run Battletech as a mini game ala warhammer 40k. with minis marking line of sight, actual terrain etc, is NOT in the core rule book. (nor should it be the scale on so many of the minis is aweful because they're not really designed with mini gaming ala warhammer or hoards etc in mind)

That mindset is why Battletech has been on life support for two decades. The game is a miniatures game that was never properly marketed, and its development was hindered by a refusal to drop the beer-and-pretzel-1980's-boxed-game mindset that it began with but from which it has long since moved on.


I'll agree on the poor marketing 100% (I've often said that the biggest screw up in battletech's history was the video games being called Mechwarrior and not Battletech) but the game isn't a minis game. and thats not a bad thing. I've seen people look at the cost involved in getting into mini games like 40k and walk away, Battletech by comparison is dirt cheap. but no Battletech isn't a mini game. I don't need minis to play it. this had lead to a very VERY differant approuch to the game from a mini game. Mini games make the bulk of their money from mini sales the rules are produced occasionally and editions make changes to push sales (see 40k) battletech meanwhile is very sourcebook driven. when GW started pushing out their codex supplements the reaction was pretty negitive, a buncha lore and 1 or 2 pages of rules. In battletech that's basicly the norm. it's a table top wargame but the game is developed almost more like a RPG then say... warhammer


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Having LOS/terrain rules does not make you a miniatures game, especially when said rules are binary and are played out in 2 dimensions.

I don't see what "having points for balance" has anything to do with miniatures games.

And it has a range of miniatures that are 100% optional. You can play the game with coins.

Alpha Strike is a miniatures game. BattleTech is not.




as evidanced by where the rules to play battletech as a minis game are located (in Alpha strike) when your core rule book doesn't have the rule;s to play your game as a mini game. it's not a mini game

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 03:48:19


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




lol amazing ...

I play warhammer fantasy with just movement trays and dice to denote wounds / models slain. So, that must not be a miniatures game (I also play with with miniatures as well).

I have seen warmahordes played with bases with just paper denoting what the base is. You dont need models for LOS since its just base size that determines it. Most players dont use 3d terrain anymore, just flat cutouts to denote 2d areas.

With infinity terrain matters, but models certainly do not. You can also use chits, just need to have their facing denoted somehow and when you need to figure out LOS you use the size templates s1-s7. Minis totally optional and unnecessary.

now coming back to battle tech, I play it in board game mode with the hex grid, I also play it on fully 3d tables without the hex grid using the alternative movement rules in total warfare. Terrain certainly matters here and LOS is no different than any other game that doesn't use true line of sight.

In fact the only time miniatures mater is when you have a game that has true line of sight --- and how many of those exist these days?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
in fact most games can be played out in 2d just fine, except for infinity. We use models and terrain to add to the visual aspect of games and almost never to the actual game play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 04:45:42


 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Argue all you want, you won't convince me. Battletech would have never made it if miniatures hadn't been at the core of the gameplay experience. It would have been another doomed hex-and-chit game.

Saying it's not a miniature game is just being pedantic.

 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
RPGs use minis merely for player visualization, Battletech uses minis for much more, and while those rules are optional, they are only optional because Battletech can't seem to let old iterations completely die off.

My understanding is that in each and every core rule the use of any kind of miniature is completely inconsequential, as everything pertains to the board.

I actually like it for that. None of the guessing of miniatures game, everything is clear as day.

Spoiler:
Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has rules for line of sight... yeah. So does Batman Gotham Chronicles and Advanced Squad Leader. Plus, you know, none of the LoS rules need the miniatures.
Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.... so does Heroes of Normandy, and loads of other board games.
Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.... well, so does chess, so obviously it's also a miniatures game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
zreef wrote:
lol amazing ...

I play warhammer fantasy with just movement trays and dice to denote wounds / models slain. So, that must not be a miniatures game (I also play with with miniatures as well).

I have seen warmahordes played with bases with just paper denoting what the base is. You dont need models for LOS since its just base size that determines it. Most players dont use 3d terrain anymore, just flat cutouts to denote 2d areas.

I might be wrong, mind... but do any of Warhammer or Warmahordes' rules, the ones in the book, pertain to a board? Do they make any reference to a board of any kind, do they define ranges as some kind of in-a-board measurement (like squares, hexes, spaces or anything)?

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Elbows wrote:
Saying it's not a miniature game is just being pedantic.

Well, saying it is a miniatures game is being wrong . So I guess we're all in good company xD

Loads of boardgames have lovely miniatures this days, people. That doesn't make them miniature games, nor does that make them "doing it wrong". People love miniatures, companies give them miniatures. I don't exactly see what the problem is.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/06/19 06:42:32


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Looking at the product photos of the "BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat" box on the Battletech wiki, I'm impressed - it's actually a competitive product, visually! Which hasn't always been the case in the past. My only quibble is that elevation changes are always depicted on the map sheets as flat-sided mesas, but that's a minor thing. and I don't like the modern chubby Catapult. Bring back the proportions of the 3025 original, I say.

Anything they can do to promote Battletech to a new audience rather than just the same old grognards is a benefit, I'd say.

does that BT:AGoAC box do anything to split the models up by faction, or is it just a matter of picking the ones you like, and leaving it to the mountain of sourcebooks to define that sort of thing?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

You can split them, but they come with some of the most common 'Mechs ever made (even moreso with these coming boxes) which means that (with few exception*), everyone pretty much has loads of the things already.

And the new Catapult isn't chunky. That distinction belongs to the horrific PlasTech miniature. *shudder*


*Commando is Lyran, Catapult is Capellan, and the Awesome is Purple Bird, but they're really the most 'house-y' of them.

   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





just about all the 3025 mechs are used to one degree or another by all of the great houses. the Lyrans may manafacture the commando, and the mech may be aomewhat associated with them, but 300 years of conflict have spread the design around. No one's going to blink at seeing a Commando in Liao colours, a Awesome in Davion Colours, a Dragon in Marik colours etc.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
the Awesome is Purple Bird


I have no idea what that means.

The lack of defined visual identity for the factions is likely to be the most off-putting thing to new players. All modern games seem to have a very distinct look for each of their factions, as something to draw new players to one or the other. Even if you do dig into the background and buy "faction specific" 'Mechs there's no real visual continuity between, say, all the Capellan 'Mechs.

That was always something that bugged me in the background for the Unseen. Take the Warhammer and Rifleman for example; they share significant commonality (obviously, given the source of their designs), so you'd think they came from the same manufacturer, but you'd be wrong. Likewise wht Marauder, Stalker and Catapult. All three of those are very visually distinct from anything else in the 3025 TRO, but there's no obvious connection between the three.

I know in the real world military equipment doesn't get the same sort of corporate design cues as ordinary cars or trucks, but in the context of a game in a fictional setting, it always felt like the art direction was a little off. Not just in Battletech; Crimson Skies looked the same, to me. Reaper's CAV had the same idea, that each nation bought their equipment from companies across the setting, but at least there, there was a commonality of design across models that were stated to be from the same in-setting manufacturer.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 08:30:48


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Oh, and H.B.M.C, this is the Catapult I was thinking of (from CMON:
[Thumb - img3ea4249e4e227.jpg]
old metal Catapult miniature for Battletech

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I have no idea what that means.
House Marik. The Free World's League. The BTech thread over at 4Chan always calls them Purple Bird as that's what their house insignia is.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The lack of defined visual identity for the factions is likely to be the most off-putting thing to new players. All modern games seem to have a very distinct look for each of their factions, as something to draw new players to one or the other. Even if you do dig into the background and buy "faction specific" 'Mechs there's no real visual continuity between, say, all the Capellan 'Mechs.
There tends to be more distinction as time goes on, so a lot of the Draconis Combine/Kuritan 'Mechs have a very Japanese flair to them, but one of the big things in the setting is, as Brian said, that these things have been around so long that pretty much everyone has a few of everything floating around.

That's one of the things I like, as there are so many (one could argue too many) designs out there that it'd such to find something you like but find out it's an "X Only" 'Mech. There are very few of those in the game (certain 2nd Line Clan 'Mechs are unlikely to show up in other forces, especially if they're a Totem 'Mech, and Word of Blake Manei Domini 'Celestial' 'Mechs won't appear anywhere else as you need to be a nutcase cybernetic psychopath to drive one!).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
That was always something that bugged me in the background for the Unseen. Take the Warhammer and Rifleman for example; they share significant commonality (obviously, given the source of their designs), so you'd think they came from the same manufacturer, but you'd be wrong. Likewise wht Marauder, Stalker and Catapult. All three of those are very visually distinct from anything else in the 3025 TRO, but there's no obvious connection between the three.
A lot of that comes from 'out of universe' stuff, where the artwork wasn't really done to exemplify a particular faction (with the odd exception).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I know in the real world military equipment doesn't get the same sort of corporate design cues as ordinary cars or trucks, but in the context of a game in a fictional setting, it always felt like the art direction was a little off. Not just in Battletech; Crimson Skies looked the same, to me. Reaper's CAV had the same idea, that each nation bought their equipment from companies across the setting, but at least there, there was a commonality of design across models that were stated to be from the same in-setting manufacturer.
There are some things they do as they've filled in the blanks for the early Succession Wars stuff, introducing 'new' 'Mechs that are actually old long-extinct designs that were the forebears of the more common 'Mechs we see today, or designs that led to the more iconic Clan 'Mechs down the line (eg. the Thresher vs the latter Thor).

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






I know why, in-universe, most 'mechs are "universal". I just mean that a lot of potential players these days expect to see visually-distinct factions for games - it's one of the initial appeals - and Battletech might be passing them by for that reason. Certainly, perosnally speaking, I always felt that the background was rather separate to the game itself, which is why it never really clicked with me to the same extent as 40k. If it's expained in the background, only people who get past that initial reaction are going to be in a position to learn that.

Perhaps the next Kickstarter could be faction-specific Lance boxes?

As for the talk about the artwork, that's what I meant about the artwork. GW, for example, spends a lot of time and effort making sure that almost everything about a Space Marine looks like a Space Marine. Even to new players, you can take, say some Space Marines, Astra Militarum and Mechanicus models and there's some things that mark them as coming from the same overall culture (skulls, power cables and bulky square weapons), and things that mark them out as distinct within that (rivets on Astra Militarum tanks, overlapping smooth panels on Space Marine vehicles, the Mechanicus skull icon). That's something I feel Battletech (and FASA generally, when it was their game) didn't do well.

I'm looking at this from someone who's only really dabbled in BT over the years; A friend had the 3rd edition box, I bought CityTech, we both had whatever the 3rd and then 4th edition hardback main rulebooks were called, and between us had most of the TRO books and Field Manuals, but that was 20 years ago while I was a student. I was never into the novels, so I didn't follow the ongoing story; just seeing the odd snapshot from the field manuals.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Albertorius wrote:

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis
.


Yes there are rules in the core rulebook for battle tech (Total war) to play on a regular table with 3d terrain and use rulers for movement -- it is one of two ways battletech is played. These rules are default for Alpha Strike.

A lot of people play using the hex maps because you have a tables worth of terrain in 4 folded sheets of paper ... it also means you need less space to play. I personally enjoy the inches and 3d terrain feel for battle tech and play it that way any time I can.
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






zreef wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis
.


Yes there are rules in the core rulebook for battle tech (Total war) to play on a regular table with 3d terrain and use rulers for movement -- it is one of two ways battletech is played. These rules are default for Alpha Strike.

A lot of people play using the hex maps because you have a tables worth of terrain in 4 folded sheets of paper ... it also means you need less space to play. I personally enjoy the inches and 3d terrain feel for battle tech and play it that way any time I can.


Funny you say that, because that's not in my copy of Total Warfare.

And this is what the aforementioned book says about the question:


3-D TERRAIN VS. PAPER MAPS
BattleTech at its core is a board game; players move pieces on a hex-grid mapsheet. Unlike tabletop miniatures games, which use three-dimensional (3-D) terrain and rulers to approximate movement and combat, the core BattleTech game rules use specific, codified movement and combat ranges within a mapsheet’s hex grid.
Nevertheless, any game system that uses three-dimensional miniatures (such as the complete line of BattleTech miniatures sold by Iron Wind Metals; see p. 12) looks better when played on 3-D terrain—hence the photos in this rulebook. Three-dimensional terrain also enhances the feel of the game. When using 3-D terrain, however, players should note that BattleTech requires hex-grids.
While Total Warfare and other rulebooks all require the playing area (whether mapsheets or 3-D terrain) to be a hex grid, some players may wish to learn how to play BattleTech as a table-top miniatures game (using rulers and without the hex grid on 3-D terrain). Players can visit bg.battletech.com to download a free conversion rules set—BattleTech Miniatures Rules—covering the differences between the two types of play.


So yeah, you can indeed use 3d terrain with the Total Warfare ruleset... as long as it has hexes on it and use the boardgame rules. Otherwise, you can go to the downloadable conversion set, which is not in the book. THAT would be the miniatures game. The actual, core game? Well, I guess them saying as much won't change anyone's mind, but definitions exist for a reason.

As to Alpha Strike it's definitely a different ruleset that IS an actual miniatures game.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/19 13:13:49


 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Right, that's settled, apparently.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Albertorius wrote:


So yeah, you can indeed use 3d terrain with the Total Warfare ruleset... as long as it has hexes on it and use the boardgame rules. Otherwise, you can go to the downloadable conversion set, which is not in the book. THAT would be the miniatures game. The actual, core game? Well, I guess them saying as much won't change anyone's mind, but definitions exist for a reason.



Not sure which version you are using, but no download needed and no hexes needed in my total warfare book. BT has been through many iterations. My book is about a decade old - right when the 25th anniversary box came out. Does yours not include the rules for using inches for movement, turning, and JJs? Which version do you have, im oddly curious now. There are a number of changes that have come over the years where various printings of total warfare are contradictory. Would be interesting if this again is the case -- our most recent heated argument was with how mech networks worked two complete different rule sets for this in two different printings of the book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and for the record I really dont care if its considered a miniatures game or not to me it is as I use miniatures to play it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 14:31:19


 
   
Made in es
Skilled SDF-1 Pin-Point Barrier Jockey






The last one, the one with the Vintage Atlas that's just been reprinted (I bought the pdf a while ago, and no version I've had included miniature rules). The last one I remember including them (in the back) was the BMR book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 14:32:42


 
   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander




Halifax

Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Alpha Strike removes too much of what makes BattleTech BattleTech. The individuality of units goes away.

   
Made in ca
God-like Imperator Titan Commander




Halifax

I thought the notion of roles like Sniper and Brawler were kind of neat ways of differentiating between mechs like Warhammers and Marauders.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




I don't want to get in the debate of if BattleTech is a miniature game or not, I am surprised this wasn't brought up. When I bought BattleTech first edition, there were only card board cut outs that came with the game. I know Battledroids was mentioned but I don't know nothing about it so can't say.

But first edition BattleTech, Citytech and areotech all had cardboard cut outs to use. So does that make it a miniature game? Don't know. Don't care. All that matters is I had so much fun with using both cardboard cut outs and miniatures.

As was mentioned before, Warmahordes don't need minis to play. Same can be said for 40K as well. You don't need minis either, older editions of 40K.

Does it really matter if it is a miniature game or not? As long as it's fun, who cares.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




 Albertorius wrote:
The last one, the one with the Vintage Atlas that's just been reprinted (I bought the pdf a while ago, and no version I've had included miniature rules). The last one I remember including them (in the back) was the BMR book.


that's really interesting ... here are the rules that are printed in my version

http://www.darkagepress.com/files/BTMiniRules.pdf

It sounds like they were removed from more recent printings. My friend has the printing after mine but before the one you have, ill check to see if its in his.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as a side note, if you have never played BT with miniature rules ... you should they are a lot of fun

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 16:39:41


 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





the mini tules have never really been seen as the core. most folks play with thge hexmaps. (in fairness it's a lot easier to set up a hexmap then to set terrain) that said I've heard that it is a very fun game with minis although the scale issues with many of the minis could make it frustrating

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 17:06:19


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Is the issue that BattleTech has vever had a set scale? Unless the Marauder is piloted by agoraphobic hobbits and the Battlemaster has a jacuzzi in there.

We found the tripling of ranges in the minis rules pointless - we just made one MP = 1" instead. Saved multiplying up everything by three.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I heard about the below 18 years ago on a Yahoo! Group, but never got a chance to try it out:

12 segment turn from champions.

If your mech moved faster than 12, you'd get to move one hex every segment, and 2 hexes on the segments that your leftover speeds went. Thus, speed 14 moves 1 hex every segment, with 2 hexes on segments 6 and 12.

Mechs moved in order from heaviest to smallest; ties in the move order were resolved by rolling piloting skills. All fire was simultaneous on a given segment. (In theory, all movement should've been simul, but we never found a solution we liked for it.)

Moving into terrain would cost you future movement points. We pretty much did away with the distinction between walking and running -- everyone got their run speed for determining movement points. You generated 1 heat for every 4 movement points spent during a turn, and
1 heat per hex covered via jump.

A jumping mech had to place a counter on the hex it would land in; it moved at 1 hex/segment while mid-air (and made SUCH a lovely target). It was possible to combine jumping and running in the same movement. We pretty much had you make piloting checks for entering terrain and for jumping. If you missed your jump piloting roll, you
landed funny. If you botched your jump piloting roll (natural 12), we rolled two dice to determine which hex you actually landed in...

If you fired a weapon, you had to wait a number of segments equal to the heat generated to let the "barrel cool down" before firing it again. This did mean ballistic weapons gained a lot of RoF.

Heat sinks were done post-segment 12. (Exception: Ending a segment in level 1 water would dump 1 heat per segment, level 2 would dump 2 heat per segment. Infernos added 1 heat per segment, and fire added 1 heat per segment.)

We re-defined a hex as being 100 m to make the weapon ranges match what we wanted.

Mostly, we stuck with the 3025 book 'Mechs for this, because it made life MUCH simpler.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 18:35:10


 
   
Made in ca
Krazed Killa Kan




Monarchy of TBD

For those wondering about what mechs go where, it's true they can go anywhere, but some are more commonly associated with other houses. This is most often expressed in the lore of where they are produced, and in the RAT. Here's a very quick and free sample of some. https://www.dropbox.com/s/yh0d5y4f0j3jkiv/3028-3050%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%209.1.pdf?dl=0

One of the coolest features of Battletech, in my opinion, is the fact that most designs really can be used in any era, and have models that ARE more exclusive to faction. The Catapult, for example, is a Liao mech. But any of the CPLT-K series are DCMS designs.And the Griffin's a Lyran mech, unless it's a GRF-3M, in which case it's a Marik mech.

It's a game that starts, and ends, with the idea that anybody can use anything, but adds on very distinct flavor as technology advances.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
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Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
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Made in gb
Combat Jumping Tiger Soldier




North Wales

Nurglitch wrote:
Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.



I think that it is.

I wasn't convinced when I first read the rules, but having given it a few goes, I really like it. You have different movement modes, ranges, heat, positioning, rear shots all making an appearance. Crits happen, weapons are destroyed, legs are damaged and reactors get shot up.

Of course it's more abstracted - that's the point and, yes mechs lose a lot of the nuenced differences, but I had no problems visualising my Warhammer being caught out in the open with it's armour in tatters, overheating, one leg and a PPC being shot off yet refusing to go down.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Nurglitch wrote:
Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.


Mech Attack (by a different company) is a far better (in my personal experience) ruleset to be a "rules light" Battletech. Heat is handled well, and there is a nice combined arms feel of mechs/vehicles/infantry, but the weapons are pretty watered down into broad "laser/machinegun/missles/cannons categories (mostly light/med/heavy of each type, but they can also be bought as twin-linked, AP, and such for some flavor).

Armor is whittled away, and Heat can still shut down a mech or cause critical systems to fail, etc, but forces can have larger amounts of mechs/vehicles without nearly as much work.

I mostly just want better mechs that I may not neccessarily use for Battletech, as the iconic mechs for BT have always been pretty fun designs for giant stompy robots.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/19 22:07:37




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
 
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