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If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Iowa

Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.

So far we have Primaris Calgar and his Victrix Guard.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see new Primaris characters with whatever next campaign we get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, also, Primaris Iron Hands character coming at some point confirmed, so there’s that. But that doesn’t really do anything for the non-codex chapters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 21:19:55


If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 21:23:29


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Iowa

BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

I can agree an everything but BA death company. I’m some what hoping that the Primaris BA don’t go “bad” and mutate to madness like minimarines. Rather, I’m kind of hoping death company gets kept as a legacy unit. The Primaris would mutate into “functional” berzerkers and use a similar color/design scheme.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


Honestly I understand both arguments for having separate codexes and one giant codex. Personally I've always felt that marines should just have 1 codex with an additional lore book. I remember starting and I was looking at BA, DA, and the SM codexes being very confused I didn't understand at the start. But now I get it.

One codex would cut down some confusion and help with instances where people just recently were saying only vanilla SM could take the new Executioner
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





given that in the past 3 years GW has introduced Deathwatch, 1k Sons and Death Guard I see more evidance GW is doubling down on Marine varients then I do that they're trimming them

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.


I could have sworn I read that Primaris Marines don't have the Canis Helix gene, they don't suffer from Black Rage and because they are new to the Dark Angel chapter I doubt they would be accepted into the inner circle.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Jimbobbyish wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.


I could have sworn I read that Primaris Marines don't have the Canis Helix gene, they don't suffer from Black Rage and because they are new to the Dark Angel chapter I doubt they would be accepted into the inner circle.


you've read wrong. Cawl claimed to have solved all the problems inheriant, but it seems he over sold. as for the dark angels. IIRC Primaris Captains are Inner circle. and eventually the dark angels are gonna start trusting Primaris Marines. at the very least there'll come a time when the primaris marines are one recruited in house

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
why does everyone keep saying they lack a bike equivilant? stop thinking of what they look like and start thinking what they can do, and it's suddenly clear the bike equivilant of inceptors.


Inceptors are still jump infantry, not a biker. For most chapters, that's probably similar enough. For some, You'll still need something that's a Bike-ish biker - say for White Scars and Ravenwing.

A lot of people keep saying they need a Terminator replacement, but Aggressors are that replacement. They're only really missing the 2+ and the invuln, but I think they're doing away with mass 2+ and invulns - I think the new plan is add wounds and toughness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Part of me hopes they find Jetbikes for Ravenwing, possibly for Astartes too... and they stick with bikes for the Wolves. Making some Hell's Angels out of Space Wolves screams out to me.


Aggressors are more of a Centurion like unit than a Terminator Unit.

Currently the primaris are lacking close assault units, close combat units, heavy infantry elite units. Elite Units in general that are from the first company, and chapter-specific units.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 01:55:56


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Apple Peel wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

I can agree an everything but BA death company. I’m some what hoping that the Primaris BA don’t go “bad” and mutate to madness like minimarines. Rather, I’m kind of hoping death company gets kept as a legacy unit. The
Primaris would mutate into “functional” berzerkers and use a similar color/design scheme.


If Wulfen/Deathcompany are in, Death Company/Wulfen are in. If Wulfen/Death Company are out, Death Company/Wulfen are out.

They've given the idea that Primaris are more stable, and don't have the gene issues 1.0 Marines have. They might try and say the Black Rage is psychic and not Genetic. The Red Thirst is supposedly genetic, but rarely shows up in games/editions outside of fluff.

Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Wolf Guard are all special versions of a pre-existing unit or unit archetype. Jump Assault Troops, Terminators, etc. The Primaris Dread already has a Plasma Option which WAS DA specific.

Ravenguard and White Scars will need some form of Calvarly/Bike unit (and land/air/hover two seat+ speeders for Ravenwing) to maintain their flavor/theme. Again these are most often special versions (i.e. an iconography upgrade pack and a basic box) of a currently existing unit.

The DA BatJets are seperate - far more than an iconography pack. The SW Jets are seperate. The Baal Pred, Deathwing/Ravenwing Knights, Bjorn/Murderfang, and DC Dread are between special and seperate... they also need a weapon upgrade sprue.

The special characters will become a combination of phased out the same way as 1.0 - i.e. they'll become worse and worse until we quit using them and won't care when GW quits making rules - or Primaris-ified like Marneus. I suspect it will be done in a way to match them to a new unit - in keeping with the current Primaris Captains and Lieutenants they usually have similar Master Crafted gear to their unit types - and the ones that don't match the new unit will be the ones to die. Some of this will turn out to be laughably comical - i.e. Bjorn will be pulled out of his Dread in the hopes of becoming a Primaris Marine will restore him to full health, only to have the procedure not work and they have to emergency-sarcophagize the guy in a Redemptor Dread. They can't write him off, and they can't leave him in an old Dread He's too Central to SW lore.

Torias Telion and Quietus are easily converted into a Phobos Eliminator.

Dante is 1,100+ years old and a Jump Pack marine. If they don't make a decent Jump Pack Marine - well BA players are already going to be hopping mad, what's killing off their ancient Chapter Master who still had a Strategy Rating of 5, while all the Strategy Rating 6 chapter masters deferred to... his strategies? Shrike will be in the same boat as Dante, perhaps more so.

Lysander is easy to turn into a Bolt-storm Aggressor, especially one that can take advantage of their Chapter Tactic while using the Auto-BoltStorms + allow it for any Aggressors within 6" to make him different than Calgar?

Pedro Kantor - was practically a Gravis captain before there were Gravis Captains. And Hooray, he gets a free power sword he won't need now.

Chronus is unlikely to make the switch unless they add a lot of Primaris tank vehicles.

Sicarius will be replaced by Decimus Felix.

Khan and Hestan will be upgraded to Primaris versions.

Azrael possibly turns into a Hellblaster, since I doubt they'll keep combi-weapons.

Helbrect, the Emperor's Champion, and Grimaldus are easy swaps.

The Librarians are easy swaps - though Tiggy is getting writing-on-the-wall fluff recently about how much various acts of heroism are aging him.

Asmodai probably gets a massive send-off to be replaced by a new Primaris Interrogator Chaplain named - not because there's anything wrong with Asmodai, but just so some special characters die and get replaced in each book and players can't scream favoritism.

Cassius is likely on his last leg. He's also old and probably gets more play in DeathWatch than Ultramarines. Tyrranic War vets not making the jump from the Index to the Codex- even without generalized rules for monstrous creatures to include Demons is portentous.

Tycho - name ripoff aside - has always been someone GW can't figure out what to do with - and could finally find a niche as a Phobos Captain he already sort of looks like one.

The Space Wolves and the Ultras probably lose the most characters, just because they have the most to lose- especially the Wolves as they have the most that are so similar.

If they're planning ahead, the Talonmaster will become either Landspeeder or Whatever-replaces-bikes field-able.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:


you've read wrong. Cawl claimed to have solved all the problems inheriant, but it seems he over sold. as for the dark angels. IIRC Primaris Captains are Inner circle. and eventually the dark angels are gonna start trusting Primaris Marines. at the very least there'll come a time when the primaris marines are one recruited in house



I Think I've already seen fluff about DA Primaris Marines figuring out at least part of the Inner Circle's secret and trying to figure out how to tell the Inner Circle it's OK they can trust the Primaris Marines - without the Inner Circle deciding to send them to Deep Space where they might have an "accident". Primaris Masters are not Inner Circle, but Primaris Librarians are - not that you can hide the Inner Circle secrets from a mind-reading psyker - unless it's an Inquisitor, IG battle psyker, or other chapter's librarian I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 05:35:40


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Biggest thing for me that primaris don't have (and I hope they don't get) are embedded special weapons. Having to chew out a couple of boltgun wielding marines before getting to the special weapons hurts way less then losing hellblasters/aggressors/inceptors off of the initial salvo.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Spoiler:
Breton wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

I can agree an everything but BA death company. I’m some what hoping that the Primaris BA don’t go “bad” and mutate to madness like minimarines. Rather, I’m kind of hoping death company gets kept as a legacy unit. The
Primaris would mutate into “functional” berzerkers and use a similar color/design scheme.


If Wulfen/Deathcompany are in, Death Company/Wulfen are in. If Wulfen/Death Company are out, Death Company/Wulfen are out.

They've given the idea that Primaris are more stable, and don't have the gene issues 1.0 Marines have. They might try and say the Black Rage is psychic and not Genetic. The Red Thirst is supposedly genetic, but rarely shows up in games/editions outside of fluff.

Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Wolf Guard are all special versions of a pre-existing unit or unit archetype. Jump Assault Troops, Terminators, etc. The Primaris Dread already has a Plasma Option which WAS DA specific.

Ravenguard and White Scars will need some form of Calvarly/Bike unit (and land/air/hover two seat+ speeders for Ravenwing) to maintain their flavor/theme. Again these are most often special versions (i.e. an iconography upgrade pack and a basic box) of a currently existing unit.

The DA BatJets are seperate - far more than an iconography pack. The SW Jets are seperate. The Baal Pred, Deathwing/Ravenwing Knights, Bjorn/Murderfang, and DC Dread are between special and seperate... they also need a weapon upgrade sprue.

The special characters will become a combination of phased out the same way as 1.0 - i.e. they'll become worse and worse until we quit using them and won't care when GW quits making rules - or Primaris-ified like Marneus. I suspect it will be done in a way to match them to a new unit - in keeping with the current Primaris Captains and Lieutenants they usually have similar Master Crafted gear to their unit types - and the ones that don't match the new unit will be the ones to die. Some of this will turn out to be laughably comical - i.e. Bjorn will be pulled out of his Dread in the hopes of becoming a Primaris Marine will restore him to full health, only to have the procedure not work and they have to emergency-sarcophagize the guy in a Redemptor Dread. They can't write him off, and they can't leave him in an old Dread He's too Central to SW lore.

Torias Telion and Quietus are easily converted into a Phobos Eliminator.

Dante is 1,100+ years old and a Jump Pack marine. If they don't make a decent Jump Pack Marine - well BA players are already going to be hopping mad, what's killing off their ancient Chapter Master who still had a Strategy Rating of 5, while all the Strategy Rating 6 chapter masters deferred to... his strategies? Shrike will be in the same boat as Dante, perhaps more so.

Lysander is easy to turn into a Bolt-storm Aggressor, especially one that can take advantage of their Chapter Tactic while using the Auto-BoltStorms + allow it for any Aggressors within 6" to make him different than Calgar?

Pedro Kantor - was practically a Gravis captain before there were Gravis Captains. And Hooray, he gets a free power sword he won't need now.

Chronus is unlikely to make the switch unless they add a lot of Primaris tank vehicles.

Sicarius will be replaced by Decimus Felix.

Khan and Hestan will be upgraded to Primaris versions.

Azrael possibly turns into a Hellblaster, since I doubt they'll keep combi-weapons.

Helbrect, the Emperor's Champion, and Grimaldus are easy swaps.

The Librarians are easy swaps - though Tiggy is getting writing-on-the-wall fluff recently about how much various acts of heroism are aging him.

Asmodai probably gets a massive send-off to be replaced by a new Primaris Interrogator Chaplain named - not because there's anything wrong with Asmodai, but just so some special characters die and get replaced in each book and players can't scream favoritism.

Cassius is likely on his last leg. He's also old and probably gets more play in DeathWatch than Ultramarines. Tyrranic War vets not making the jump from the Index to the Codex- even without generalized rules for monstrous creatures to include Demons is portentous.

Tycho - name ripoff aside - has always been someone GW can't figure out what to do with - and could finally find a niche as a Phobos Captain he already sort of looks like one.

The Space Wolves and the Ultras probably lose the most characters, just because they have the most to lose- especially the Wolves as they have the most that are so similar.

If they're planning ahead, the Talonmaster will become either Landspeeder or Whatever-replaces-bikes field-able.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:


you've read wrong. Cawl claimed to have solved all the problems inheriant, but it seems he over sold. as for the dark angels. IIRC Primaris Captains are Inner circle. and eventually the dark angels are gonna start trusting Primaris Marines. at the very least there'll come a time when the primaris marines are one recruited in house



I Think I've already seen fluff about DA Primaris Marines figuring out at least part of the Inner Circle's secret and trying to figure out how to tell the Inner Circle it's OK they can trust the Primaris Marines - without the Inner Circle deciding to send them to Deep Space where they might have an "accident". Primaris Masters are not Inner Circle, but Primaris Librarians are - not that you can hide the Inner Circle secrets from a mind-reading psyker - unless it's an Inquisitor, IG battle psyker, or other chapter's librarian I guess.


Death company I honestly agree are unnesscary as they could easy be reconfigured into a stratigium that could be applied to ANY unit. Sanguiary guard and wolf guard are basicly a form of honor guard to a degree but are pretty differant and worth keeping around, Wolf guard in specific are more simply space wolf veterns then terminators though, not all wold guard are in termy armor. as for them turning special characters into gerinic ones I doubt that'd happen, special characters may be made primaris but they won't just be made into "ohh he's a hellblasster now" I'd love to see a Primarised Dante, perhaps with his current weaponry but flying around in inceptor gear. that'd be pretty awesome

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 05:49:35


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Asherian Command wrote:


Aggressors are more of a Centurion like unit than a Terminator Unit.

Currently the primaris are lacking close assault units, close combat units, heavy infantry elite units. Elite Units in general that are from the first company, and chapter-specific units.


Aggressors are as much Terminator as they are Centurion. You're focused on the 2+ 5++ and I think they're cutting way back on 2+ and any ++. I'm not entirely sure why the Aggressors are Heavy Support not Elite, and didn't have a white helmet.

Not counting the Shadowspear Phobos units - which weren't around when the codex was written - the current UM 2nd Company - the This is what a company looks like example - has Intercessors, Tacticals, Assaults, Inceptors, Devastators, and Hell Blasters.

Making it pretty obvious Intercessors = Tacticals, Inceptors = Assaults and Hellblasters = Devastators.

Now, if we assume the First Company of the prototypical chapter i.e. Ultramarines still have the Veteran Units - Termies, Vanguard, Sternguard - and this is an assumption I'm not sure will hold up over the long term -

Reivers are both Elite on the shoulderpad and the codex - in power armor but not jump packs. Reivers = Sternguard (bolt carbine) or less likely Vanguard (grav chute plus combat knife), or very unlikely both comparing their two/two options.

Aggressors at Elite on the codex, and Heavy Support on shoulder could be either Termies, or Centurions or possibly both. Centurions, like Tycho have never really had a secure niche, they could drop both Termies and Centurions for Aggressors. Centurions were in a no-man's land of not being part of either First company or Other Company prototype lists.

Scouts = Shadowspear Phobos - this is pretty obvious. Sniper Eliminators, Infiltrator Bolter Scouts - and no whining about not having a carapace armored captain, librarian, or lieutenant. Chaplains... oops. But chaplains are bad right now anyway.


LRC/Razorback = Repulsor

LR/Razorback = Repulsor Executioner

Rhino = The rumored blurry tank on the video.

Without knowing what the blurred out thing suspected to be the Primarhino is - it's hard to place the rest of the Repulsors on the scale. Depending on guns, and trasport capacity and price, either of the current ones could be the Razorback or a Land Raider replacement. IT could even be that they're all a little of both and create a unique paradigm. If the Primarhino is virtually no guns transport 10, the LR is the Repulsor, and the Executioner is a Land Raider hybrid that went Razorback variant instead of Crusader. if the Primarirhino is no guns transport 16 then all bets are off and they mixed and matched everything.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Iowa

Breton wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

I can agree an everything but BA death company. I’m some what hoping that the Primaris BA don’t go “bad” and mutate to madness like minimarines. Rather, I’m kind of hoping death company gets kept as a legacy unit. The
Primaris would mutate into “functional” berzerkers and use a similar color/design scheme.


If Wulfen/Deathcompany are in, Death Company/Wulfen are in. If Wulfen/Death Company are out, Death Company/Wulfen are out.

They've given the idea that Primaris are more stable, and don't have the gene issues 1.0 Marines have. They might try and say the Black Rage is psychic and not Genetic. The Red Thirst is supposedly genetic, but rarely shows up in games/editions outside of fluff.

I didn’t say anything about Wulfen. I have a different idea for them.

I think the classic death company idea should be retired. They would be replaced with Primaris berzerkers. They emulate many of the old death company colors and design as an homage, but are not actually mad. They are specially mind-trained to go into an almost Khornate berzerker rage at a moment’s notice, and they can be somewhat quickly snapped out of it. It is easy to trigger, however, and these marines live much more secluded lives to not be a risk to their brothers. I don’t know if it would be a voluntary process one could strive for or if it would be an honor bestowed to skilled warriors.

On the Wulfen lines—don’t the Space Wolves have some weird rituals for becoming a SW space marine? Also, don’t they have some weird planetary life force or something that the Rune Priests use? Just some strange reason that this planet force overpowers the new marine and turns them into mega-Wulfen or something.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:


Death company I honestly agree are unnesscary as they could easy be reconfigured into a stratigium that could be applied to ANY unit. Sanguiary guard and wolf guard are basicly a form of honor guard to a degree but are pretty differant and worth keeping around, Wolf guard in specific are more simply space wolf veterns then terminators though, not all wold guard are in termy armor. as for them turning special characters into gerinic ones I doubt that'd happen, special characters may be made primaris but they won't just be made into "ohh he's a hellblasster now" I'd love to see a Primarised Dante, perhaps with his current weaponry but flying around in inceptor gear. that'd be pretty awesome


Turning Death Company into a Stratagem is certainly possible- but it can't be applied to ANY unit. And they don't have units it should be applied to yet. Well, BP/Combat Knife Reivers MAYBE. Many of the Special Characters are already just a souped up troop unit. Lysander with a TH/SS in Terminator Armor? Shrike with a jump pack and twin Lightning Claws? Pedro with a Power fist and Bolter? Can you say Tactical Sergeant?

I suspect many of these special characters are conceived of in this manner - Oh, they're a captain/chapter master. What did they do before they were a captain (Or in the case of someone like Uriel Ventris- what did their mentor they replaced in a sad Time Marches On Story do). What unit don't we already have a special character for in this book? Lets fluff them out as that's how they made a name for themselves, and now that they're in charge, they're going to keep that iconic loadout from their early success. I think the Primaris generic characters followed that pattern. Thus why the Vanguard Captain looks/plays like an Infiltrator, and the Lieutenant looks/plays like a Reiver. I think that's the pattern they're going with now, and the revamped special characters will follow the same pattern. The design team will ask.. what kind of troops does this guy lead? Lets make him a souped up version of that.

As mentioned they've avoided combi-weapons on Primaris. So Azrael's Lion's Wrath will probably get dropped and broken by a Watcher In The Dark while Azrael is being operated on. It was a combi-plasma. DA are known for Plasma. Hellblaster!

They've avoided Thunderhammers and Stormshields on Primaris. Lysander's Fist of Dorn is out. But IF are known for Bolter Discipline, and Aggressors have Bolt Storm Guantlets. That don't work with Bolter Discipline. Rather than changing either, make Lysander an Aggressor that can use both Boltstorm and Bolter Discipline, and teach other Aggressors while they're right next to him.

Shrike probably isn't going to become an Inceptor. There's nothing out yet that really fits him though there probable will before its over. Or he could fail to cross the Rubicon, and so soon as his promotion.

Primaris Dante would be cool, definitely. But the Jump Pack, Inferno Pistol and the Axe are all problems. My first inclination is to say the pistol more than the Axe, but the Axe of Ultramar used to be a thing, while the new Victrix Guard have power swords. (And Storm Shields now that I think about it - but they're also a bodyguard for the rare unit they already do allow ++ saves for... ) I don't think they kill off Dante and Tycho at the same time. Maybe they don't kill off either. Each has reasons to be killed off. Killing off Dante, the leader of Imperium Nihilus? Secondus? Whatever they named the side of the rift he's on, especially while a successor Chapter Master, Gabriel Seth, that only he, Dante, can really keep in check has his, Seth's, codpiece in a twist over Primaris Marines would go a long way towards an emotional roller coaster lowpoint in the GrimDark setting. Some of this will come down to what the Jump Pack Assault Marine replacement will be. But I suspect if Dante does become Primaris, his wargear changes dramatically. The popularity of Melta in BA alone is likely to change. If they're smart the new Jump Pack Marine will have Melta as their second option. Plasma is king this edition, but the King of the Mountain changes every expansion, and Primaris are so far extremely locked into Plasma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Apple Peel wrote:

I didn’t say anything about Wulfen. I have a different idea for them.

I think the classic death company idea should be retired. They would be replaced with Primaris berzerkers. They emulate many of the old death company colors and design as an homage, but are not actually mad. They are specially mind-trained to go into an almost Khornate berzerker rage at a moment’s notice, and they can be somewhat quickly snapped out of it. It is easy to trigger, however, and these marines live much more secluded lives to not be a risk to their brothers. I don’t know if it would be a voluntary process one could strive for or if it would be an honor bestowed to skilled warriors.

On the Wulfen lines—don’t the Space Wolves have some weird rituals for becoming a SW space marine? Also, don’t they have some weird planetary life force or something that the Rune Priests use? Just some strange reason that this planet force overpowers the new marine and turns them into mega-Wulfen or something.


You said you could agree with all (including Wulfen) but Death Company. I pointed out Death Company and Wulfen are similar "secret shames". I don't see them spreading berzerker away from Khornate troops.

On the weird ritual - Its about the same. You drink the Blood of Sanguinius/Canis Helix from the Red Grail/Cup of Wulfen which activates the gene-seed implants.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 06:54:40


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Breton wrote:
 Apple Peel wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


unique primaris units will come down the road. right now GW needs to do the core lineup. I expect once we get the gravis armor update (much like how the vanguard are a Phobis armor update) we'll start seeing more chapter specific units. we've already gotten chapter specific stuff in the form of the Victrix Guard. I expect we'll see Primaris unique units down the line. certainly well before they get rid of old Marines. which I don't think it going to happen for a looong time. NBow we might starty to see some old units effectively given to primaris. stuff like "well Primaris can become Wulfen too. use the old minis" etc. the smaller size might be slightly jarring but.. *shrugs* off the top of my head I expect we're going to see the following unique units first among the chapters.

Blood Angels: Primaris Sanguinary Guard and death company.

Dark Angels: A Primaris Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Space Wolves: Primaris Wolfguard and maybe Wulfen.


those 6 unique units would honestly cover the bases for the snowflake chapters. it'd not be perfect but it'd give GW something to build on for them. But I really do think GW's going to double dip for ages to come.

I can agree an everything but BA death company. I’m some what hoping that the Primaris BA don’t go “bad” and mutate to madness like minimarines. Rather, I’m kind of hoping death company gets kept as a legacy unit. The
Primaris would mutate into “functional” berzerkers and use a similar color/design scheme.


If Wulfen/Deathcompany are in, Death Company/Wulfen are in. If Wulfen/Death Company are out, Death Company/Wulfen are out.

They've given the idea that Primaris are more stable, and don't have the gene issues 1.0 Marines have. They might try and say the Black Rage is psychic and not Genetic. The Red Thirst is supposedly genetic, but rarely shows up in games/editions outside of fluff.

Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, and Wolf Guard are all special versions of a pre-existing unit or unit archetype. Jump Assault Troops, Terminators, etc. The Primaris Dread already has a Plasma Option which WAS DA specific.

Ravenguard and White Scars will need some form of Calvarly/Bike unit (and land/air/hover two seat+ speeders for Ravenwing) to maintain their flavor/theme. Again these are most often special versions (i.e. an iconography upgrade pack and a basic box) of a currently existing unit.

The DA BatJets are seperate - far more than an iconography pack. The SW Jets are seperate. The Baal Pred, Deathwing/Ravenwing Knights, Bjorn/Murderfang, and DC Dread are between special and seperate... they also need a weapon upgrade sprue.

The special characters will become a combination of phased out the same way as 1.0 - i.e. they'll become worse and worse until we quit using them and won't care when GW quits making rules - or Primaris-ified like Marneus. I suspect it will be done in a way to match them to a new unit - in keeping with the current Primaris Captains and Lieutenants they usually have similar Master Crafted gear to their unit types - and the ones that don't match the new unit will be the ones to die. Some of this will turn out to be laughably comical - i.e. Bjorn will be pulled out of his Dread in the hopes of becoming a Primaris Marine will restore him to full health, only to have the procedure not work and they have to emergency-sarcophagize the guy in a Redemptor Dread. They can't write him off, and they can't leave him in an old Dread He's too Central to SW lore.

Torias Telion and Quietus are easily converted into a Phobos Eliminator.

Dante is 1,100+ years old and a Jump Pack marine. If they don't make a decent Jump Pack Marine - well BA players are already going to be hopping mad, what's killing off their ancient Chapter Master who still had a Strategy Rating of 5, while all the Strategy Rating 6 chapter masters deferred to... his strategies? Shrike will be in the same boat as Dante, perhaps more so.

Lysander is easy to turn into a Bolt-storm Aggressor, especially one that can take advantage of their Chapter Tactic while using the Auto-BoltStorms + allow it for any Aggressors within 6" to make him different than Calgar?

Pedro Kantor - was practically a Gravis captain before there were Gravis Captains. And Hooray, he gets a free power sword he won't need now.

Chronus is unlikely to make the switch unless they add a lot of Primaris tank vehicles.

Sicarius will be replaced by Decimus Felix.

Khan and Hestan will be upgraded to Primaris versions.

Azrael possibly turns into a Hellblaster, since I doubt they'll keep combi-weapons.

Helbrect, the Emperor's Champion, and Grimaldus are easy swaps.

The Librarians are easy swaps - though Tiggy is getting writing-on-the-wall fluff recently about how much various acts of heroism are aging him.

Asmodai probably gets a massive send-off to be replaced by a new Primaris Interrogator Chaplain named - not because there's anything wrong with Asmodai, but just so some special characters die and get replaced in each book and players can't scream favoritism.

Cassius is likely on his last leg. He's also old and probably gets more play in DeathWatch than Ultramarines. Tyrranic War vets not making the jump from the Index to the Codex- even without generalized rules for monstrous creatures to include Demons is portentous.

Tycho - name ripoff aside - has always been someone GW can't figure out what to do with - and could finally find a niche as a Phobos Captain he already sort of looks like one.

The Space Wolves and the Ultras probably lose the most characters, just because they have the most to lose- especially the Wolves as they have the most that are so similar.

If they're planning ahead, the Talonmaster will become either Landspeeder or Whatever-replaces-bikes field-able.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:


you've read wrong. Cawl claimed to have solved all the problems inheriant, but it seems he over sold. as for the dark angels. IIRC Primaris Captains are Inner circle. and eventually the dark angels are gonna start trusting Primaris Marines. at the very least there'll come a time when the primaris marines are one recruited in house



I Think I've already seen fluff about DA Primaris Marines figuring out at least part of the Inner Circle's secret and trying to figure out how to tell the Inner Circle it's OK they can trust the Primaris Marines - without the Inner Circle deciding to send them to Deep Space where they might have an "accident". Primaris Masters are not Inner Circle, but Primaris Librarians are - not that you can hide the Inner Circle secrets from a mind-reading psyker - unless it's an Inquisitor, IG battle psyker, or other chapter's librarian I guess.


Tycho... The guy that has been dead since the third war for Armageddon???

Maybe captain Invictus of the ultramarines will come back from the dead also on that logic.
   
Made in us
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endlesswaltz123 wrote:


Tycho... The guy that has been dead since the third war for Armageddon???

Maybe captain Invictus of the ultramarines will come back from the dead also on that logic.


Ironically, Captain Invictus now has a kitbashable model potential with Tartaros Terminators. Tycho's nebulous status is why he's one of the ones who could end up being dropped during the switch. They've never had a clear niche or plan to find one for him. Is he the 3rd company captain? Is he a Death Company Captain? Is he dead? Is he alive and still getting data sheets several editions later? Is he just a stick to poke Star Wars fans with?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Tycho is dead. he was the third company captain and fell to the black rage in the third war. and then died.


Aggressors are as much Terminator as they are Centurion. You're focused on the 2+ 5++ and I think they're cutting way back on 2+ and any ++. I'm not entirely sure why the Aggressors are Heavy Support not Elite, and didn't have a white helmet.
because they're orginizationally NOT 1st company veterns. they're fire support wearing armor with additional weaponry added to provide additional support for the marines. They fill the EXACT same role in Marine orginization charts as centurions with a anti personal weapons loadout.


Not counting the Shadowspear Phobos units - which weren't around when the codex was written - the current UM 2nd Company - the This is what a company looks like example - has Intercessors, Tacticals, Assaults, Inceptors, Devastators, and Hell Blasters.


And guess what that imagine doesn't show in 2nd company as well? Centurions.

Making it pretty obvious Intercessors = Tacticals, Inceptors = Assaults and Hellblasters = Devastators.


well given that intercessors are listed as line troops, inceptors as close support (just like assault marines) and hell blasters are heavy support, this... is pretty much spelled out in the codex.


Reivers are both Elite on the shoulderpad and the codex - in power armor but not jump packs. Reivers = Sternguard (bolt carbine) or less likely Vanguard (grav chute plus combat knife), or very unlikely both comparing their two/two options.


No they're not Reivers are classed as close support. and have that symbol on them. (go look at the 360 image of the reiver on the GW website, they have the same squad type symbol as assault squads)

Aggressors at Elite on the codex, and Heavy Support on shoulder could be either Termies, or Centurions or possibly both. Centurions, like Tycho have never really had a secure niche, they could drop both Termies and Centurions for Aggressors. Centurions were in a no-man's land of not being part of either First company or Other Company prototype lists.


Because centurions where something your devestator marine squads wore when they needed extra firepower at the expense of mobility. JUST LIKE AN AGRESSOR SQUAD.

Your entire thesis is based on faulty circular logic. GW tells us aggressors are not the elites, and instead fill a fire support role.







Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
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Holy Terra

A Primaris only codex with all chapters included can give chapters like BA, DA and SWs a unique unit or two, and a couple of unique characters to all chapters and it would still be more streamlined and manageable than just the regular Astartes codex with the vanilla chapters.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
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 Ishagu wrote:
A Primaris only codex with all chapters included can give chapters like BA, DA and SWs a unique unit or two, and a couple of unique characters to all chapters and it would still be more streamlined and manageable than just the regular Astartes codex with the vanilla chapters.


the problem withg that, from a busniess POV for GW is it would rapidly lead to a "the end is neigh" mentality around space Marine players. even if GW was simply doing it to ease book keeping and avoid having a phone book sized codex with no intent on ditching old Marines. now granetd GW could dispell that easily eneugh if at the same time as a Primaris only codex they release a brand new set of old Marines (I dunno maybe an updated terminator)

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
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BrianDavion wrote:
Tycho is dead. he was the third company captain and fell to the black rage in the third war. and then died.
Just ask his new datasheet(s). This is a discussion of changing/swapping datasheets as we move from 1.0's to Primaris right?




And guess what that imagine doesn't show in 2nd company as well? Centurions.
So you're saying that proves Aggressors are the replacement for Centurions. Because neither show up in the Class Photo of the Second Company? If only I had pointed out Centurions were in some sort of No-Man's-Land. Maybe you could have snipped that part out to pretend I hadn't made that point myself.

Making it pretty obvious Intercessors = Tacticals, Inceptors = Assaults and Hellblasters = Devastators.


well given that intercessors are listed as line troops, inceptors as close support (just like assault marines) and hell blasters are heavy support, this... is pretty much spelled out in the codex.


I'm pretty sure Scouts are "pretty much spelled out in the codex" as Line Troops, and Intercessors ≠ Scouts. But Kudos to you for getting snarky about establishing a baseline. At least you didn't snip the part where this was expanded on Scouts being = to Eliminators and Infiltra... wait I thought I DID say something about that? Oh yeah, I did. But hey, I'm sure you wouldn't selectively snip to cherry pick something for an easy "point".


Your entire thesis is based on faulty circular logic. GW tells us aggressors are not the elites, and instead fill a fire support role.
Everything you disagree with is based on faulty circular logic it appears. My "entire thesis" is that Aggressors probably are the replacement for (Shooty) Terminators, could also be the replacement for (Assault) Centurions, and it's entirely possible neither Terminators nor Centurions get a direct one-for-one replacement - and taken one step further it's entirely possible the whole First Company gets special units thing may go away - there are entire Primaris Only Chapters who have zero terminators or Van/Stern -guard Veterans - do they have a first company, or did they start at 2? Oh sorry, that's one of those false dichotomies you like - for example the Aggressors can only replace Terminators OR Centurions.

No they're not Reivers are classed as close support. and have that symbol on them. (go look at the 360 image of the reiver on the GW website, they have the same squad type symbol as assault squads)

Damn. I saw some that had the Elite/Crux waterslide, and finally relaxed having "figured out" what the hell they were for. Now I'm back to wondering.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
A Primaris only codex with all chapters included can give chapters like BA, DA and SWs a unique unit or two, and a couple of unique characters to all chapters and it would still be more streamlined and manageable than just the regular Astartes codex with the vanilla chapters.


the problem with that, from a business POV for GW is it would rapidly lead to a "the end is nigh" mentality around space Marine players. even if GW was simply doing it to ease book keeping and avoid having a phone book sized codex with no intent on ditching old Marines. now granted GW could dispel that easily enough if at the same time as a Primaris only codex they release a brand new set of old Marines (I dunno maybe an updated terminator)


That's not the only problem. It would drastically shrink the part of the world the players get to interact with. It would probably drastically increase the usage of those special units above and beyond what you see now, to emphasize each chapter's uniqueness in some sort of passive aggressive protest. Of course for some, it would be an upgrade. That's two special units and one special character more than the non- UM/BT chapters have now. Of course, you thought the BA/DA/UM/SW players would "end is nigh" scream about losing their tactical marines, wait until they find out they can't pick between a named Chapter Master, Company Captain, Librarian, and Chaplain any more - Let alone the minor Telion/Chronus/Corbulo "You get two choices someone else will pick for you for the rest of your days. Oh, you liked Ezekiel? Too bad, for DA we picked Belial and Asmodai, because of all the people who play Fallen.". "Oh you like Dante? Whoops, we picked Astorath, and Lemartes. Because we like the Death Company better than the Sanguinary Guard. Maybe next time.". And it would either make all the chapters veritable clones of each other, or be just as bloated as several codexes stacked on top of each other with all the If you do X, you can do Y rules to get the same variety the current chapters can/should do. I already feel sorry enough for Dark Angel, White Scar, and CWE players fighting against choosing fluffy thematic or Command Point generating armies.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 09:21:22


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Check out your space Marine codex again, despite being in the troop slot, Scouts are not listed in the listing of "battleline" units. Primaris require you to mentally adjust some thinking, Space Marine players used to have it pretty easy with the roles units had falling nicely into the same role they had in the chapter orginization, troops where battleline, fast attack where close support, heavy support was heavy etc. Primaris is shaking up this a little. Reivers are elites, but they're "close support" supressors are heavy support, but take up the fast attack slot. GW is thinking outside the box in some areas with Primaris marines. IMHO we should proably expect suprises

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


Be a breath of fresh air if they do.

Get rid of all the pretend "unique " units - just give the options to base units - so any Tac marines can have chainswords etc Pysker Dreadnought are not just Blood Angels.
Keep any actual unusual units
Add stuff from the non super special Chapters - esp the other First Founding ones.


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
Jimbobbyish wrote:
If primaris marines are the only future and they replace old marine units and models in the codexes. My biggest fear is that GW will fold all space marine chapters in to one codex including space wolves, Blood angels, and Dark Angels.

Because as it stands unless they make unique primaris units for different chapters beyond just weapons. There won't be any reason for different codexes.


Be a breath of fresh air if they do.

Get rid of all the pretend "unique " units - just give the options to base units - so any Tac marines can have chainswords etc Pysker Dreadnought are not just Blood Angels.
Keep any actual unusual units
Add stuff from the non super special Chapters - esp the other First Founding ones.



Crusader Squads are about more than the chainswords - Ravenwing units aren't unique because of the feathered fairing- nor are they as unique as they used to be with Bikes, Attack Bike, Landspeeder all one squad - and I see both sides. Most chapters are not known for sending Tac Squads out with chainswords mag-clamped onto their backpack but it's not exactly hard to believe any strike cruiser or battlebarge doesn't have a hundred or more of the things in an armory such that any chapter COULD.

I think you could get Librarian Dreads from Forgeworld, and I'm pretty sure you can still get Chaplain Dreads. Which I agree totally makes sense for every chapter. Oh. it's a dying Librarian we could rush into a Dread. But we're not Blood Angels. Tough Luck, Brother Mentallus. Oh well, at least we can harvest your geneseed.

The Furioso (Two CCW Arm) Dread has been in enough video games it also should be universal. It's already been done with Vanguard Veterans, and went the other direction on Sternguard Vets. There should be enough truly unique things like the Dark Angel BatJets and Space Wolf flying bricks - for each chapter - so that any theme'ed army from that chapter - I want to see a close combat Dread with a giant Jump Pack for the Raven Gaurd - should be able to use a couple without working at it, but not feel like they have to take all of them all every time.

Another option is price changes based on chapter. Tactical Ultramarines have to pay for a Chainsword, but Black Templars get the chainsword for free. Of course this is what will make that codex 5 times the size.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
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How many unique units should a faction have though?

Probably around 3 or so in my opinion. An HQ and 2 or so unique units. Ideally they would play off of their corresponding trait as well creating actually different play styles between say Ultramarines and imperial fists
   
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Ottawa

 fraser1191 wrote:
How many unique units should a faction have though?

Probably around 3 or so in my opinion. An HQ and 2 or so unique units. Ideally they would play off of their corresponding trait as well creating actually different play styles between say Ultramarines and imperial fists


I'd be super happy if the next step was to follow Primaris Calgar and bring the updated special characters alongside a chapter themed Honour Guard.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Lemondish wrote:
 fraser1191 wrote:
How many unique units should a faction have though?

Probably around 3 or so in my opinion. An HQ and 2 or so unique units. Ideally they would play off of their corresponding trait as well creating actually different play styles between say Ultramarines and imperial fists


I'd be super happy if the next step was to follow Primaris Calgar and bring the updated special characters alongside a chapter themed Honour Guard.


me too, I doubt we'll see a p[rimarisified Logan Grimnar, his plastic mini is too new, but a primaris dante and azrael would be spiffy.


Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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I would guess Ragnar will be Primarisized.
   
Made in us
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 fraser1191 wrote:
How many unique units should a faction have though?

Probably around 3 or so in my opinion. An HQ and 2 or so unique units. Ideally they would play off of their corresponding trait as well creating actually different play styles between say Ultramarines and imperial fists


It depends on the factions you're talking about.

CWE and Dark Angels? They should all be unique. Dark Angels - known for Treasure Troves of Dark Age of Technology goodies vs an all new Primaris Only chapter? Quite a few. Ultramarines and Imperial Fists? Not very many until you get into Special Characters.

As for Special Characters, every Chapter they make rules for should have the Chapter Master, a Company Captain, the Top Chaplain, and the Top Librarian (or equivalent) - and there should be a few archetype "special characters" to be sprinkled between units like a Vet Sgt upgrade that are unique but <CHAPTER> compliant. They shouldn't do much but add a little flavor, and/or a unique tweak that's fluffy but outside the norm fluffy - Chronus/Telion-when-he-replaced-a-scout-sgt types.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






Across the Rubicon

I would be pretty okay with some of the chapter masters with older sculptures getting replaced with brand new chapter masters. Of course, that is pretty easy for me to say given I don't have any the models for them. Still, I think it would be a good time to introduce new characters here and there just to show that space marines (even the important ones) do actually die. I figure is a model is getting close to driving age most players have got their money's worth and it might be worthwhile injecting some new blood into the Characters that are out in the galaxy.

   
 
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