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Made in us
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 Peregrine wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
^In this case Peregrene is right. It really does look like a happy meal toy.


That's a bit hyperbolic, but everyone has their own opinion, I guess.


It's not hyperbolic at all. The model looks like . It's utterly insane that GW is trying to sell it as an expensive wargaming miniature instead of throwing it in the trash where it belongs, and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of their work.



....kay...

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 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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When I first saw primaris I was very much against them, but I really have warmed to them.

When you see them in person side by side with normal marines they're just leaps ahead.

Old marines look hilariously squat with oversized weapons. I'm not a fan of the new not dread or the style of the Repulsor, but I can't fault the infantry. Other than Surpressors. Not a fan of them either...

   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


But space marines have basically been generic sci-fi space men for a long time. they are like one of the progenitors of generic super soldiers in space.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Iowa

Is it just me, or does it seem that GW really loves unadulterated bright colors on their marines? Have they shown any battle-damaged or weather-worm Primaris models? I feel that just seeing shiny all the time is bad for the image.

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Love the Primaris range. Can't think of any models that i dislike. I wish space marines looked like this fifteen years ago.

And I am absolutely loving the new scout walker. Silly, over the top and all kinds of awesome. Heavy bolter pistol is a brilliant touch. Can't wait to run three!

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 Sentineil wrote:
When I first saw primaris I was very much against them, but I really have warmed to them.

When you see them in person side by side with normal marines they're just leaps ahead.

Old marines look hilariously squat with oversized weapons. I'm not a fan of the new not dread or the style of the Repulsor, but I can't fault the infantry. Other than Surpressors. Not a fan of them either...


The basic phobos marines look fancy, also really nice bolters. ( ESPECIALLY FOR AL CONVERSIONS!)
but the regular Primaris, eeeeehehh, i like the boltguns though.
The marines themselves not really.

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Primaris lack the grit and dark age vibe of older 40k content (I partially think it's because of GW's choice for artwork for promoting the product line). Doesn't help that their guns look more "modern" and the somewhat overly used Primaris image looks like something that might be in a futuristic Battlefield/COD game.
Spoiler:

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 Vankraken wrote:
Primaris lack the grit and dark age vibe of older 40k content (I partially think it's because of GW's choice for artwork for promoting the product line). Doesn't help that their guns look more "modern" and the somewhat overly used Primaris image looks like something that might be in a futuristic Battlefield/COD game.
Spoiler:


Because grimdark is 90s and 40K stopped being a parody. HALO has made far more money than 40K ever did, so I'm sure that factors in.
   
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 deotrims 16th wrote:

Also as a side note what do people think about GW essentially forgetting what dreadnoughts are and putting a live person inside of the new release, along with a stupid dreadknight roll cage.


GW (and by extension a lot of newer players) have forgotten what a Dreadnought is long before this terrible thing came along. Case in point for the most egregious example- Murderfang. No, GW; Dreadnought's pilots are half dead SMs buried deep within the bowels of the sarcophagus and are hooked up with no end of pipes, tubes and other life preserving paraphernalia. They are NOT sticking their stupid heads out of the Dread's body like a giant suit of armour.

Too many new players I have seen changing the heads of various Dreads, most notably the Venerable and CSM ones (I've seen it done to FW ones too) to bare heads and it looks utter gak. Why are they doing this? Because GW have told them indirectly via Murderfang that this is literally the "head" of the pilot. It's not. Never has been and you've fethed everything along the way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/08 17:56:20




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 Desubot wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


But space marines have basically been generic sci-fi space men for a long time. they are like one of the progenitors of generic super soldiers in space.

"Space Marine" it's from the '30s.
Stuff like Starship Troopers super soldiers (are they?) is from the end of the 50s.
GW made the combination popular, but so did Doom.

What made GW Marines stand apart was the stylistically anachronistic/schizotech elements of paladins/knights in space. Again, there is a reasonable chance they will keep such aesthetics for specific armies (Dark Angels) and this will make everyone happy, but what we see now is new models that scream "we want the Inifinity customer base".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/08 18:08:49


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^The infinity observation is also something Ive noticed. It's like the Primaris are designed to look impressive next to Infinity models.

Conversely, it might be that Primaris are designed to look good on zoomed in camera phones, or look good on instagram as people share their work.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Holy Terra

I don't personally like the Suppressors (Maybe a different weapon option will sway me)

And I'm not 100% on the new Dread.


Other than those, every kit has been fantastic and leaps ahead of the Squat Marines (Squat for their poses and stubby legs)

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Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/08 18:24:27


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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?




That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Do these marines look proportionally like old marines or new marines?




Reason why they should of just gone with making marines true scale and keeping all the fluff viable instead of attempting to squat the entire model line and gut the lore to sell more plastic.

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 Insectum7 wrote:

That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


What makes the marines in the video not look like just some "scifi COD guy"?

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I like the Nu-Rhino and the Infiltrators. I'm not too crazy about the Scope-Marines and the not-Power loader is just silly for a combat vehicle. Thankfully Redemptors still exist.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:

That's actually sorta beside the point. Proportions have a lot to do with how an object is shown.


What makes the marines in the video not look like just some "scifi COD guy"?


I would say traditional space marines are a bit more stocky which lends to their feeling of being a walking tank where as the increase in primaris height tends to give them more human like proportion which thus lends itself to looking more like "generic sci-fi guy". Same with primaris guns which are longer giving this more generic sci fi look unlike the classic bolter which is its own unique shape (being very bulky for its relatively short length).

"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
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4000 Points
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.
^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.
So what would capture the "essence" of the Space Marine over a generic spaceman?

Consistent features of them:
- Bolter: Oversized barrel with a few common elements.
- Power backpack with the "stabilizing jets".
- Big oversized pauldrons.

Looking at this, nothing notable to the classic look to the SM armor has change.
We could debate a fair bit on the "Darth Vader" breather grill as opposed to beaks.

People had wanted "true scale" for these guys for a while so I am onboard.
Mind, I have a 4000 odd point Black templar old school army (all still on 25mm / 1" bases) so this may hurt a tiny bit.

I agree they are now more in line with the long standing fluff of being some 7' tall or so so the new guys seem correct when Cadian Guard (really old models) next to them.





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The primaris line is not only intercessors. The "infinity" feel is found more on other models.
The improved scale IS good. See the comments upthread about the good execution of CSMs.

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Across the Rubicon

 Ishagu wrote:
I don't personally like the Suppressors (Maybe a different weapon option will sway me)

And I'm not 100% on the new Dread.


Other than those, every kit has been fantastic and leaps ahead of the Squat Marines (Squat for their poses and stubby legs)


This is pretty much where I am at too except I am also not feeling Inceptors blast helmets (which isn't a big deal since they don't seem to be tied to the plasma load out).

I also don't know if I am completely on board with the Impulsor. I think that just might be a model I will have to build and have in hand before I can say yea or nay about it. I just don't know if the rear section is to much of a departure from what the repulsor line had created. My hope is that it feels kinda like a uparmored technical or something.

I would definitely like the Invictor Warsuit in it had a sarcophagus instead of a pilot as well as a forearm mounted bolter instead the 'pistol' version. Part of me thinks those really aren't all that big of alterations to move the model from like to dislike, yet they do. I haven't been a big fan of dreadnoughts anyways, so it is easy enough to pass on it (there is already more than enough in this release than I want to buy all at once anyways). I will admit I am becoming a little annoyed when it is referred as a baby carrier since it shares almost no aspects of the dreadknight that does actually make it kinda look like a baby carrier. Fortunately, I don't think I have seen anyone on Dakka Dakka doing such a thing.

The Incursor squad has some elements that don't connect with me, but at the same time; they do actually help sell the unit as combat engineers of sorts. The visor and oversized scope to read to me as engineer for some reason.


   
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Midlands, UK

The basic Intercessor is the closest thing in the Primaris line to the old aesthetic, so it's not the best comparison when people talk about the generic sci-fi supersoldier. Compare instead with some of the new Vanguard marine models with their slimmed-down armour and aerials on everything. It moves things in a direction more akin to other sci-fi supersoldiers - which are generally depicted with more obvious high-tech gear and slimmer armour, the prime examples being things like the Halo Spartans. The traditional 40k space marine is clearly a walking tank, a brutal symbol of an oppressive regime, and the Intercessor manages to update that look pretty well - it's the newer stuff that a lot of folks have problems with from the direction of 'tacticool' and losing the character of the space marines.

I mean, personally, I think the Intercessors/Hellblasters look good, the gravis armour less so, the Inceptors and their variants rather ugly, and the vanguard stuff strays too far from the core themes of the faction for my taste. I rather dislike the vehicles too - hover tanks just doesn't sit right with my mental image of space marine vehicles, even if it's sensible to conclude that if the imperium was going to produce hover tanks in any sort of numbers it's the marines that would get them.

There are a number of factors that make me still prefer squatmarines. One of them is, I'll admit, that I've never been especially fond of change so I've probably got an inbuilt bias against new releases that change something fundamental about the setting. I've loved the concept of the space marines since I first got into the 40k setting ~20 years ago, and for all that time my concept of space marines has been based on the traditional chapter organisation. Tactical, assault, devastator, scout, terminator squads. Rhinos, predators, land raiders. I'm very resistant to changing that view. And to me the design style of those units is iconic. I'm not necessarily arguing in favour of the specific proportions of the models, but rather the design cues of the armour and weapons. If the Primaris release had instead been true-scale versions of the classic units based on the tradtional roles and style, I'd have grumbled but I'd have come round to it quickly enough.

For my taste, the Primaris commit the triple sin of representing a change from those classic marine units, having awful fluff and also taking the character of the faction in a direction I don't like. It's been said before, and I touched on it at the start of this post - the design direction of the new models feels more generic sci-fi, it feels like Call of Duty in space. The space marines were always warrior monks - but that feel is almost totally absent from the new models. Sure, the basic Mark VII suit isn't especially gothic in itself, but importantly there wasn't anything about it that detracted from that feeling, nothing that seemed to clash with the fluff of the warrior monks. Then, when you start getting into all the accessories and elite units of the classic marines, bringing in the elaborate sculpted pauldrons, tabards, purity seals all over the place, it all added up to fit with the fluff - these were grim warrior monks trying in vain to fight back the darkness. I miss that in the new ones. That isn't to say that they won't be able to grab my attention with new releases. If, after GW finishes with this current wave, they make the next wave more decorative and gothic, I'll probably be happier. But for now there's very little in the new line to inspire me.

So, the Primaris that I do own from Dark Imperium (bought it for the rulebook mainly, and if I was buying the book anyway the minis were a steal even if I wasn't especially fond of them) and Wake the Dead (wanted the Eldar!) are still on the sprue. I may build and paint them eventually if I feel like it, but for now they are unloved. I'm not actively working on my classic marine army at the moment, but I'm still quite happy to add more squatmarines to it. The proportions don't bother me, and they're still what I think of when I think of space marines.
   
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I do find it funny when people criticise classic marines for having ‘squat’ poses, when most of the Primaris range is in the same kind of squatting pose as well.

Sure, you have a couple of well posed walking guys in the dark imperium box, 1 single running reiver and the nicely posed lieutenant calsius, but that is about it. The vast majority of Primaris are squatting.

The classic range has much greater range of poses. There is the normal tactical legs, devastator legs, running legs from assault marines, walking legs from deathwatch, more normal legs and running legs from the FW legion sets etc.

Funnily enough the squatting pose, as in legs braced, is quite realistic as modern soldiers do it when firing and moving.

As for them being true scale, they really aren’t. Rather they are slightly less heroic but still heroic scale. They are closer to the ideal head to body ratio of ideal art proportions, but they are still heroically proportioned. Heads are still overly large, arms still too big and long, weapons overly large etc. And as the OP said their legs are probably a bit too long. You can see they are not true scale illustrated best when you compare the art of Lieutenant Calsius with the actual model.

I know some people like them because they are big compared to your old Cadian models, but now GW have upscaled normal humans as well, so the scale relationship between newer human model and Primaris is similar to that of Cadians to classic marines.
   
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people saying primaris marines lack the knights in space feel. can you explain why?

I mean let's look at a priamris Marine for a moment

Spoiler:


there's definatly some high tech imgry on that, the communications(?) device on his wrist but you also have a medieval style tilting shield which is an obvious medieval affection. you see the purity seal, and well this mini doesn't have any it's common to sell little relicquaries hanging off their belts.

Spoiler:


then since people have said the other stuff is less classical mariney, let's look at an agressor. purity seals, skulls, a relicquary, it's got all the little detailing that seperates marines from say a HALO spartan.


Now you DO see less of this with the vanguard marines so far but we've also not seen the full kits for them.

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Across the Rubicon

robbienw wrote:
I do find it funny when people criticise classic marines for having ‘squat’ poses, when most of the Primaris range is in the same kind of squatting pose as well.

Sure, you have a couple of well posed walking guys in the dark imperium box, 1 single running reiver and the nicely posed lieutenant calsius, but that is about it. The vast majority of Primaris are squatting.

The classic range has much greater range of poses. There is the normal tactical legs, devastator legs, running legs from assault marines, walking legs from deathwatch, more normal legs and running legs from the FW legion sets etc.

Funnily enough the squatting pose, as in legs braced, is quite realistic as modern soldiers do it when firing and moving.


I think there something to be said between the horse stance of many non-Primaris Marines and the less pronounced combat crouch of Primaris. It also helps that the Primaris are better proportioned to make the squat they are doing likes awkward. I was never all that bothered by most non-Primaris marine squatting poses save some of the most extreme cases. Even then, I don't think it was anymore out of place the rest of the proportion choices. As for the Primaris, I think there is more to criticize a couple of the poses looking a little knocked knee-ed (a couple of the easy-to-build intercessors demonstrate this). It isn't all that pronounced and largely appears from how flatting a 2d image of the model makes it look worse than it is.

Spoiler:



   
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Funny thing is I put more purity seal on my Primaris marines than I did on my old marines. So my old marines are cleaner cut
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:
 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Primaris risk to become very generic Sci-Fi space men.


^Yes. 1000 times yes. Imo they're really botching it.


Marines have always been generic Sci-fi space men. They're by far the most boring faction in the setting.

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