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Voss wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Well for flyers taken in single of units yes, for ones that can squad it brings it in a bit but I never really saw many flyers to begin with in most lists and if someone wants to spam them, they still will do an ok job and just pay the CP as flyers can be a pretty potent tool in the shed.

Just speaking for Deathwatch but I actually won't feel like I'm dropping a load of poopy to use my Black stars once they can move and shoot well too. It's like walking and chewing bubblegum at the same time ! Finally !

Shrug. Just something I've seen before- people (marines and eldar, mostly*) bringing in lists with 8 flyers into the store on a random game night, and basically pulling an 'Aha, tremble fools!'
This nips that pretty thoroughly.

I believe that Drukhari can still bring six flyers without paying CP.

I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

Yeah as if those armies actually managed to do anything useful ever...

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

I suspect Failbadon, Swarmlord, Silent King (though if he isnt a LoW I'll be shocked) Shadowsun & Farsight (Possibly as part of the 8) will be inline for this treatment as the new codex's roll out.

Ice_can wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

I suspect Failbadon, Swarmlord, Silent King (though if he isnt a LoW I'll be shocked) Shadowsun & Farsight (Possibly as part of the 8) will be inline for this treatment as the new codex's roll out.

my guess would be Abaddon, silent king, shadowsun, Ghaz, and the Ynnari Trimvirate.

Assuming there will be a few "obvious" supereme commander candidates in most codexes, then hypothetically you should be able to go:

Supreme Command: Shadowsun.
Tau Sept Patrol: Rando Commander
Tau Sept Patrol: Rando Commander
Starting CP 10 - Troop tax 2.

Or:
Supreme Command: Farsight.
FSE Patrol: Double Rando Commander
FSE Patrol: Double Rando Commander
Starting CP 10 - Troop tax 2.

Which seems kind of reasonable to me.

Not sure if we will see:
Supreme Command: Magnus.
Battalion: Triple Daemon Prince
Battalion: Triple Exalted Sorcerer
Starting CP 9 is ok - Troop tax of 6 puts me off!

If Ahriman gets Supreme Commander I'd probably do Sup-Pat-Pat for 5 HQs though.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

Fourth HQ

 Insectum7 wrote:
Yeah, I like this change. I'm looking forward to seeing if the non-core detachments exist/what they cost as well. I think a move towards encouraging a more traditional army organization is generally good.

They do, and for something like a vanguard, outrider, or a spearhead, they will cost 3cp each. I haven't poured over all of the leaked pages to commit it to memory though.

The Supreme Command detachment will also remove the need for the special rule currently on Ghaz and Shadowsun that allow them to be run in a detachment that is not of their Kulture/Sept without breaking the detachment type. Instead, you can now just run them in a Supreme Command detachment. The cost of doing so is a detachment and the dictation of your warlord, but no CP cost.

 alextroy wrote:
The Supreme Command detachment will also remove the need for the special rule currently on Ghaz and Shadowsun that allow them to be run in a detachment that is not of their Kulture/Sept without breaking the detachment type. Instead, you can now just run them in a Supreme Command detachment. The cost of doing so is a detachment and the dictation of your warlord, but no CP cost.

They still need to go fix some kf the janky oh yeah this commander is so boss they can command any faction but their buff abilities doesnt work unless your the same subfaction so including them is pointless anyway.

That's a feature, not a bug

 alextroy wrote:
That's a feature, not a bug

Well it's certainly a feature in why I'm not buying those shiney new models with non functional rules.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

Fourth HQ

And a nerf to non-HQ super heavys. Can't give them traits or build them their own detachment with buffing HQs anymore.

Ice_can wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
That's a feature, not a bug

Well it's certainly a feature in why I'm not buying those shiney new models with non functional rules.

That's why subfactions need their own "supreme commanders". I want Zso Sahaal and I want him now. I'm sick of Black Legion getting all the csm characters.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

Fourth HQ

And a nerf to non-HQ super heavys. Can't give them traits or build them their own detachment with buffing HQs anymore.

Ice_can wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
That's a feature, not a bug

Well it's certainly a feature in why I'm not buying those shiney new models with non functional rules.

That's why subfactions need their own "supreme commanders". I want Zso Sahaal and I want him now. I'm sick of Black Legion getting all the csm characters.

I am also tired that OoML gets every single special character in existance for sisters. even if said character doesnt have the order tag, in their fluff they are all from OoML...

It's still ridiculous to me that the Raptor Lord was made Black Legion. He should have been a generic HQ, and if not he should have been a Night Lords character.

I am kinda curious how far the "supreme commander" tag is gonna go. I'd be cool with a tank commander in a baneblade...

My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

I suppose Abbadon should get the tag, but who else really? That would give use 3 for Chaos, one for Imperium, one for Orks, one for Necrons, and one for Tau. There is no Supreme Commander for Tyranids or Eldar, unless they give that to the Incarne.

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

I suppose Abbadon should get the tag, but who else really? That would give use 3 for Chaos, one for Imperium, one for Orks, one for Necrons, and one for Tau. There is no Supreme Commander for Tyranids or Eldar, unless they give that to the Incarne.

Farsight could be argued as being equal to Shadowsun, but I susoect that won't happen till he gets a non Failcast Mini.

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

I suppose Abbadon should get the tag, but who else really? That would give use 3 for Chaos, one for Imperium, one for Orks, one for Necrons, and one for Tau. There is no Supreme Commander for Tyranids or Eldar, unless they give that to the Incarne.

Eldrad? Vect? Sanguinius? The Dark Angels and Space Wolves guys? Creed, Trajann Valoris, Cawl, The Greater Daemons from fw. That's just off the top of my head. They could always make more.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

This does not prevent Morty/Magnus from happening. I don't understand why this keeps getting brought up.

Taking a primarch or HQ unit in this detachment frees up a slot in your normal detachment for other HQ units, while also refunding the same amount of CP as you would have received if your HQ was in your normal battalion or brigade. Is there any reason NOT to put an HQ in this detachment if eligible?

Mortarian and Magnus are LOW choices. There are no LOW slots in battalions, brigades, or patrols. You would have to take an auxiliary super heavy detachment in order to get the second primarch, which will cost you 3CP. So, there's that.

Paying for any detachment beyond your warlord detachment costs 3CP or something like it. Seems like a pretty normal thing?

3CP to run Morty/Magnus is hardly 'preventing' you from running bash bros.

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

I suppose Abbadon should get the tag, but who else really? That would give use 3 for Chaos, one for Imperium, one for Orks, one for Necrons, and one for Tau. There is no Supreme Commander for Tyranids or Eldar, unless they give that to the Incarne.

The Swarmlord, for Tyranids. It'd nip the Patrol of him and 40 Genestealers in the bud, not that some other shenanigans hasn't already done that... and he's supposed to be the Supreme Hive Tyrant Bioform. Doesn't look it other than being a big tyrant. Wasn't ever a LoW, but they could have made him one and given him the stats to match.

 slave.entity wrote:
Paying for any detachment beyond your warlord detachment costs 3CP or something like it. Seems like a pretty normal thing?

3CP to run Morty/Magnus is hardly 'preventing' you from running bash bros.

Bear in mind it is a cost AND it is two detachments.

 slave.entity wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I am befuddled as to what the benefit of putting an HQ in this detachment would be. This obviously can't be your only detachment because one lonely HQ isn't gonna be enough points, so... why not just put that HQ in your battalion where it belongs?

I suspect from the way GW was waffling about how this was going to be future proofing, the biggest named charictors in each faction will get the supreme commander treatment a d they will not be allowed in the "normal detachments" eg patrol, brigade etc.

which I suppose the idea is to prevent some sort of "Morty/Magnus bro squad" shinnagens from happening

This does not prevent Morty/Magnus from happening. I don't understand why this keeps getting brought up.

Taking a primarch or HQ unit in this detachment frees up a slot in your normal detachment for other HQ units, while also refunding the same amount of CP as you would have received if your HQ was in your normal battalion or brigade. Is there any reason NOT to put an HQ in this detachment if eligible?

It forces your supreme commander to be your warlord would be a reason not to do it, if you'd rather have a different warlord, only detriment.

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

Interestingly, Shadowsun has an ability named Supreme Commander, but not the actual Keyword that would let her be included in this Detachment. Obviously the intent is for her to be, but RAW nope.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

Interestingly, Shadowsun has an ability named Supreme Commander, but not the actual Keyword that would let her be included in this Detachment. Obviously the intent is for her to be, but RAW nope.

The Supreme Commander thing is a new rule, obviously an 8th edition datasheet isn't going to reflect it. Same deal as the big list of weapons that are Blast now.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
My suspicion is it has gone as far as it is going to go, except for the Silent King when released. They covered the Primarch and Daemon Primarch, Ghazgul, and Shadowsun. Who else is really a Supreme Commander?

Interestingly, Shadowsun has an ability named Supreme Commander, but not the actual Keyword that would let her be included in this Detachment. Obviously the intent is for her to be, but RAW nope.

The Supreme Commander thing is a new rule, obviously an 8th edition datasheet isn't going to reflect it. Same deal as the big list of weapons that are Blast now.

Some of the Ad Mech stuff in Engine War has keywords that are only really relevant in 9th. Adding a keyword that has no relevance in 8th to Shadowsun wouldn't have done anything but future proof. As I said, the intent is obvious.

 Galas wrote:
Whats a Supreme Commander?

I'm guessing a model like a Chapter Master, Swarmlord or Ghazzy. Or a Titanic Knight model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
With Thousand Sons, playing Magnus will make him the warlord which will invalidate half of the stuff in the PA update (because Magnus is named and can't have a Cult).

Your mistake here was thinking that anyone writing this rule remembered the PA 1KSons stuff. GW write rules in a vacuum. The person who wrote the Supreme Command stuff wouldn't have even considered this when doing so.

I mean, this is the same company that gave 1KSons 9 new sets of options, and then FAQ'd it to ensure that you can only ever use 1 of them at a time.

I think it would be neat and also fluffy to allow Magnus to select a second Warlord Trait from one of the Nine Cults, being the most powerful psyker in the known universe besides Emps and all. Then price him accordingly of course.