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 oni wrote:
A mixed god Chaos Daemons army.

Mono-god armies are great, but the mixed armies feel so disjointed. They're appearance is like an incoherent rainbow. Some may like it and even suggest that it's narrative, but it's not for me.

Daemons are an awkward faction. Mixed god gives them the variety to work like other factions, but the aesthetic issue remains. For lore I can get my head around having a two god army by considering them as completely different forces, that just happen to converge and fight together once or twice in a campaign. When I play, it's the army at that specific moment. The aesthetic issue remains, I really don't like soup aesthetics and love a force that's extremely consistent in appearance.

Mono god is just so limiting for army composition, and 9th isn't helping since the HQ section is by far the biggest for daemons. Khorne, for example, has nine HQ's and four other options. Ten and six if we include daemon princes, furies and soul grinders. Lore and aesthetics encourage mono-god armies, while tabletop effectiveness does the opposite

Hecaton wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:


To some there is a VAST difference between wiping out opposing factions out of necessity and wiping them out because you are aroused by the action, whatever form that arousal takes.

The fact that you think that what the Imperium does is necessary is already a pro-fascist attitude. People in the Imperium get sick joy out of the horrors they inflict on aliens and nonbelievers.

Void__Dragon wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

To some there is a VAST difference between wiping out opposing factions out of necessity and wiping them out because you are aroused by the action, whatever form that arousal takes.

There's no appreciable difference to the victims whether you killed them for pleasure or for "necessity", and make no mistake many in the Imperium take pleasure in the purging of the heretic and the alien, be they benign or not.

The Imperium, even in the days of the Great Crusade, would order the extinction of xeno species and even other humans for the crime of not wanting to join them.

Stop making excuses for a fictional dystopian shithole and acknowledge what it is.

Two posters who can't see that saying one army is decidedly MORE evil is NOT the same as saying one of the other factions is NOT evil/corrupt/argleblargleCutOurselvesWhileListeningToMorrissey or whatever. Trust me, I know that there was only ever 1 altruistic faction for either WFB or 40K and those were thoroughly retconned into corruption in the early/mid 2000's.

Hecaton wrote:

Voss wrote:

 oni wrote:
A mixed god Chaos Daemons army.

Mono-god armies are great, but the mixed armies feel so disjointed. They're appearance is like an incoherent rainbow. Some may like it and even suggest that it's narrative, but it's not for me.

I actually wish it was part of the narrative. But the sub-faction hatred is still there. So Khorne + Nurgle or Slaanesh + the one of the other two are the only really viable combinations, and even then it doesn't make much sense, as they have their own goals and mixed on the table they look awful.

But mono-god armies just feel incomplete and really should have mortal elements anyway to justify them being in real-space at all.
Its a crying shame they've never gone in for fixing it in almost 30 years, despite doing exactly what they need to do for AoS.

Khorne is more likely to get along with Tzeentch than Slaanesh.

Really a shift in lore I could get behind is deep 6'ing Khorne's hatred of psykers. Have Khornate blood priests with psychic powers focused around buffs and anti-magic.

Azariah Kyras says hello

Hecaton wrote:
Khorne is more likely to get along with Tzeentch than Slaanesh.

Gotta disagree on this - even outside of the whole psyker/sorcerer thing, Khorne has plenty of reason to hate Tzeentch.
Because as much as Slaanesh might preen and prance and be all too distracted by such petty concerns as anything-other-than-a-battlefield, the Prince is still all too willing to shed blood in combat, even if the reasons are vile. Tzeentch by comparison is an utter coward, always skulking in his plots and getting others to do his dirty work for him. The Lord of Skulls has no time for such foolery!

 Super Ready wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Khorne is more likely to get along with Tzeentch than Slaanesh.

Gotta disagree on this - even outside of the whole psyker/sorcerer thing, Khorne has plenty of reason to hate Tzeentch.
Because as much as Slaanesh might preen and prance and be all too distracted by such petty concerns as anything-other-than-a-battlefield, the Prince is still all too willing to shed blood in combat, even if the reasons are vile. Tzeentch by comparison is an utter coward, always skulking in his plots and getting others to do his dirty work for him. The Lord of Skulls has no time for such foolery!

Way to misquote dude - I didn't say that.

Tiberias wrote:
I never said the imperium was noble, nor did I imply it...actually far from it. And the dark gods existed in the way they are way before the imperium turned out the way it has been for the last 10000years in the lore. Implying that the threat of chaos got that bad because the imperium is evil and stupid is just not true, chaos always was this way in the lore.

The Eldar are at fault too, certainly, but you're saying that what the Imperium does is necessary. It's not. Life could be a lot better, but the members of the Imperium get off on the cruelty. They are humanity at their worst, and every time they're attacked by xenos or Chaos they're getting their just deserts. This is the "cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable," remember, not the stoic defenders of humanity.

This is why "reasonable marines" were a joke about marines playing against type. The Imperium is inherently unreasonable and wasteful, not expedient in anything except oppression and cruelty.

Whhhhhoops! Sorry NoiseMarine - that's just me not being careful with the quote-snipping, I hate using multiple embedded quotes if it's avoidable. I've corrected it now.

Getting the thread back on topic... (hint hint)

One army that I don't think I would ever play would be Orks. I like Orks and their whole Mad Max-type schtick, but I don't think I would particularly enjoy painting or playing with them. I do enjoy seeing what others do with them, both paint and game-wise.

Another that I probably wouldn't play would be Craftworld Aeldari. On the whole they just don't do anything for me, lookswise. I've seen some amazingly painted examples of their models, so it's not like it can't be done, but to me they are just boring. If for some reason I did want to play Aeldari I would likely run Wraith constructs, competitiveness be damned. The Wraithknight is probably one of the few Craftworld models that I really like.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

 oni wrote:
A mixed god Chaos Daemons army.

Mono-god armies are great, but the mixed armies feel so disjointed. They're appearance is like an incoherent rainbow. Some may like it and even suggest that it's narrative, but it's not for me.

Daemons are an awkward faction. Mixed god gives them the variety to work like other factions, but the aesthetic issue remains. For lore I can get my head around having a two god army by considering them as completely different forces, that just happen to converge and fight together once or twice in a campaign. When I play, it's the army at that specific moment. The aesthetic issue remains, I really don't like soup aesthetics and love a force that's extremely consistent in appearance.

Mono god is just so limiting for army composition, and 9th isn't helping since the HQ section is by far the biggest for daemons. Khorne, for example, has nine HQ's and four other options. Ten and six if we include daemon princes, furies and soul grinders. Lore and aesthetics encourage mono-god armies, while tabletop effectiveness does the opposite

Well, you can do the unthinkable and... uhm... paint all the DIFFERENT daemons in the SAME colour scheme. Yeah, I know, it's a complete heretical train of thought but will do nicely for sure.

yukishiro1 wrote:

I wouldn't play T'au with the way the faction is currently set up, but if they ever turn them into a real coalition army with good non-T'au auxiliaries playing a meaningful role in the army, I might.

Alot of people who play Tau wish that was an actual thing. GW is missing out on not expanding Alien auxiliaries for the faction as there are many different species mentioned in the lore that are used in battle. It would give the faction a boost in close combat department (to at least be able hold ground in combat) and more uniqueness among the races. Not that the faction isn't unique already but not using aliens means a good part of the species lore & Greater Good is missing from the army. Just allowing Human Gue'Vesa to be playable would be a nice gift to their player base.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

 oni wrote:
A mixed god Chaos Daemons army.

Mono-god armies are great, but the mixed armies feel so disjointed. They're appearance is like an incoherent rainbow. Some may like it and even suggest that it's narrative, but it's not for me.

Daemons are an awkward faction. Mixed god gives them the variety to work like other factions, but the aesthetic issue remains. For lore I can get my head around having a two god army by considering them as completely different forces, that just happen to converge and fight together once or twice in a campaign. When I play, it's the army at that specific moment. The aesthetic issue remains, I really don't like soup aesthetics and love a force that's extremely consistent in appearance.

Mono god is just so limiting for army composition, and 9th isn't helping since the HQ section is by far the biggest for daemons. Khorne, for example, has nine HQ's and four other options. Ten and six if we include daemon princes, furies and soul grinders. Lore and aesthetics encourage mono-god armies, while tabletop effectiveness does the opposite

Well, you can do the unthinkable and... uhm... paint all the DIFFERENT daemons in the SAME colour scheme. Yeah, I know, it's a complete heretical train of thought but will do nicely for sure.

Forge World used to sell and maybe still sells some deamons of the ruinstorms that were not from a single god and has an interesting paintscheme actually

I probably won't ever play Tau because I don't think they fit into 40K and I hate all shooting armies.

I probably won't ever play Genestealer Cults because I have no interest in the army. The models are fine, but I've always thought Genestealers were the worst part of the Tyranid look, which I actually like quite a bit. Having a whole army of them is uninteresting to me.

As for factions that I currently can't see myself building, playing, converting it would boil down to these:
Craftworld Aeldari & Harlequins - Their lore doesn't inspire me & neither do their models. I mostly just don't find the Space Elves attractive in anyway. Expect the Craftworld Wraith units are kits that I do like.

Drukhari - The Drukhari have models & bits that have given me ideas for conversions. I've also made a Haemonculus character named Khankei. Who experiments & torture on daemon or chaos infested species. In an attempt to better understand how chaos ticks and get his Drukhari kicks of feeding on suffering. The idea of inflicting pain upon the servants of Slaanesh is especially enjoyable in his eyes.
The other Eldar haven't given me interesting ideas like that as of this post. And I'm not tempted in trying to play them. Drukhari is the only Aeldari faction that I would currently consider trying out on the tabletop.

Chaos - Outside of a good amount of bits to be used I'm against the faction as a whole. However, it does provide interesting ideas for lore especially with Human cults, Astares & Aliens who pledge themselves to the dark gods. As for gameplay I'd might be tempted to try chaos hereteks & Astartes over daemons. Heretic Astartes bits are more varied than the Loyalist variants. Except for the unique Dark & Blood Angel & Space Wolves kits. Their mutations and willingness to express their new allegiance gives people freedom to go crazy in kitbashing. Still there are those on this l

Mechcanicus, Sororitas, Astartes, Knights, Custodes, Guard - I'm usually the guy that plays/roots for Humanity in wargaming lore. The Imperium of Man has alot of lore tidbits to get creative juices in gear. As for the physical armies they don't do it for me.
Loyal Astartes have the biggest pull model-wise especially with the Space Wolves, Dark Angel & Blood Angels bits & kits. Though I like the possibilities Astartes present, the idea of normal Humans fighting against the odds gives the Imperial Guard a slight bump. With the many different regiments/planets the variations are staggering & inspiring. The problem is that unlike the Astartes GW hasn't given the options to bring these ideas to life without 3rd parties or large conversions. Still the Anvil (Guard) & the Scalpel (Astartes) are the two Imperium forces I'd choose if I went Imperium.
As for the others:
Mechanicus overall doesn't appeal to me. With only a couple of kits that interest me from a conversion standpoint. Mainly Skitarii ones.
The Sororitas never clicked with me and GW's chance to bring them up to date fell flat. I don't feel any different about them lore wise & their new models, while better, are not to my liking.
Imperial & Chaos Knights & their houses are something I'd investing since I don't like their look. I have seen some neat conversion of both sides but the amount of money need to be spent to procure the bits needed is not worth it to me.
Custodes & Grey Knights, the cream of the Imperium's super-soldier crop. Neither one excites me. Deathwatch is more preferable since you can mix and match different chapters together. In that regard Deathwatch might be the Astartes I'm more likely to dive into if I decide to play them.

Necrons - The Necronyr are not in my top category of Xenos lore-wise but many of their kits have nice conversion possibilities. I did create a unique fallen dynasty a couple of years back focusing of pirate Necrons who want to return to fleshly forms in order to reexperience the feeling of pleasure. It's name is Iah'Iaret which is ancient Eygptian for Moon Cobra. I though it would be interesting to make the female Necronyr in high positions of power be the only ones to retain their minds. They hope that somehow they can bring back their lost loved ones but as time goes on this outlook has turned into a grim prospect. Who knows if I will make this idea a reality.

Orks - Orks are a favorite of the community and it is not hard to see why. Likable to an extent as you wouldn't want them to be real or meet one face to face. Their lore, demeanor & kits encourage concocting your own WAAAGH! Including their behaviour of taking enemy vehicles or weaponry and mickey-mousing them. Still while they have all of this going for them I'm not completely sold on playing them. While I focus on the hobby side much more than playing, hence why converting is a priority for me, many of the Ork kits don't appeal to me. I rather play a certain cow-hoofed alien than an Ork Boy.

Tau - Outside of Orks this was the first Xenos army I truly considered collecting/playing. Tau Firewarriors & Pathfinders drew me into the faction. I love how they look. Blowing the Imeprium's Cadian & Catachan models out of the water. The gunline & style of gameplay appealed to me over the other factions. I'm into Historical wargaming and thus the idea of a sci-fi gunline with suits made the Tau click with me the most.
Plus I don't need nearly as many models as the Imperial Guard & I hate tanks. Too many of GW's Guard line are kits I dislike except the Tempestus Scions are really nice along with the Valkirye. Maybe that could be a future army but that is a pipe dream for now.
Having no psychic phase is a bonus in my book. One less section of the turn that I don't need to perform. Helps simplify the game when you have less to keep track of.

Tyranids & Genestealer Cults - These two along with Tau are my top faction picks. I like the majority of the kits. More so with the Tyranids while some of the Cult's kits I don't care for. The whole reason for me choosing the Hive Mind was due to the release of the Genestealer Cults two years back. I really liked both Hybrid box kits (Neophyte & Acolyte) and their designs sold me on the faction. Since then the brood has been continually been pushed off it's perch and tumbling downward. A fate that their parents the Tyranids have shared over the years.
Still the monster creature bugs and their infected Human hybrids are up their with Tau as my favorite overall model ranges. Concerning the entire model range without changing/converting them. I could stay with Tyranids, Gene Cults, T'au & be content with the lots I've chosen. Sure they are not in the top tier anymore but having an army that you really enjoy the look of will help keep them from going stale. At least that is one part of the hobby you can control. GW will always do what it wills with the rules and change the meta to sell models. If you have factions that you can get behind and stay behind through thick and thin is the best goal a hobbyist can hope for. I think I've found mine and hopefully you will find yours as well.

 Golem2God wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

I wouldn't play T'au with the way the faction is currently set up, but if they ever turn them into a real coalition army with good non-T'au auxiliaries playing a meaningful role in the army, I might.

Alot of people who play Tau wish that was an actual thing. GW is missing out on not expanding Alien auxiliaries for the faction as there are many different species mentioned in the lore that are used in battle. It would give the faction a boost in close combat department (to at least be able hold ground in combat) and more uniqueness among the races. Not that the faction isn't unique already but not using aliens means a good part of the species lore & Greater Good is missing from the army. Just allowing Human Gue'Vesa to be playable would be a nice gift to their player base.

The problem is that that would make the Tau too interesting/fun, and Imperium players in general and Astartes players in particular have an acute negative play experience when that's true of their opponents' faction.

Incidentally, Tau are the actual "making hard choices to survive in a harsh galaxy" faction. The Imperium is cruel, sadistic, and corrupt.

Jun 2020 TangoTwoBravo: I would never play Necrons. Anything that came after I started is bad. Plus I don't like them.

Aaaaaand now I have a Necron army and I played my first game with them today. Three weeks of leave, a pandemic, Midwinter Minis' videos on sandstone Necrons and the Indomitus box and now I have Necrons. Got to say its been a fun journey - a cleansing of the palette. Don't be afraid to try new things.

Hecaton wrote:

 Golem2God wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

I wouldn't play T'au with the way the faction is currently set up, but if they ever turn them into a real coalition army with good non-T'au auxiliaries playing a meaningful role in the army, I might.

Alot of people who play Tau wish that was an actual thing. GW is missing out on not expanding Alien auxiliaries for the faction as there are many different species mentioned in the lore that are used in battle. It would give the faction a boost in close combat department (to at least be able hold ground in combat) and more uniqueness among the races. Not that the faction isn't unique already but not using aliens means a good part of the species lore & Greater Good is missing from the army. Just allowing Human Gue'Vesa to be playable would be a nice gift to their player base.

The problem is that that would make the Tau too interesting/fun, and Imperium players in general and Astartes players in particular have an acute negative play experience when that's true of their opponents' faction.

Incidentally, Tau are the actual "making hard choices to survive in a harsh galaxy" faction. The Imperium is cruel, sadistic, and corrupt.

man making swipes agaisnt entire swaths of people for the army they choose to play? pretty lame

Hecaton wrote:

 Golem2God wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

I wouldn't play T'au with the way the faction is currently set up, but if they ever turn them into a real coalition army with good non-T'au auxiliaries playing a meaningful role in the army, I might.

Alot of people who play Tau wish that was an actual thing. GW is missing out on not expanding Alien auxiliaries for the faction as there are many different species mentioned in the lore that are used in battle. It would give the faction a boost in close combat department (to at least be able hold ground in combat) and more uniqueness among the races. Not that the faction isn't unique already but not using aliens means a good part of the species lore & Greater Good is missing from the army. Just allowing Human Gue'Vesa to be playable would be a nice gift to their player base.

The problem is that that would make the Tau too interesting/fun, and Imperium players in general and Astartes players in particular have an acute negative play experience when that's true of their opponents' faction.

Incidentally, Tau are the actual "making hard choices to survive in a harsh galaxy" faction. The Imperium is cruel, sadistic, and corrupt.

Oddly enough the altruistic race I was referring to was the Tau, but we can't have any altruism in our grimderp so 4th ed codex basically reframed the Greater Good as a form of mind control.

Admech. I painted a kill team and that is enough for me. They look good, but I found them tedious.

Tyranids, I just can't paint organic miniatures as well as I can paint machines.

I toyed with the idea of some kind of mecha-nid army, but I just think it would be too much work.

Eldar. I think they're boring and dry with even more boring and dry rulesets.

It's a shame really, because space elves could be neato

Tau. Awful design gameplay wise. No other complaints about them really.

Hecaton wrote:

 Golem2God wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

I wouldn't play T'au with the way the faction is currently set up, but if they ever turn them into a real coalition army with good non-T'au auxiliaries playing a meaningful role in the army, I might.

Alot of people who play Tau wish that was an actual thing. GW is missing out on not expanding Alien auxiliaries for the faction as there are many different species mentioned in the lore that are used in battle. It would give the faction a boost in close combat department (to at least be able hold ground in combat) and more uniqueness among the races. Not that the faction isn't unique already but not using aliens means a good part of the species lore & Greater Good is missing from the army. Just allowing Human Gue'Vesa to be playable would be a nice gift to their player base.

The problem is that that would make the Tau too interesting/fun, and Imperium players in general and Astartes players in particular have an acute negative play experience when that's true of their opponents' faction.

Incidentally, Tau are the actual "making hard choices to survive in a harsh galaxy" faction. The Imperium is cruel, sadistic, and corrupt.

The Tau were never as you say. Even before Games Workshop decided to give in to the neckbeards, who whined that the Tau were too optimistic and not grimdark enough for the setting. Now, the Tau are really no better than any other faction. They're just smart enough to hide it behind high sounding BS, propaganda, mass murder, and mind control. And the Ethereals are now just cardboard cutout, Saturday morning cartoon, moustche-twirling villains who make the Dark Eldar seem deep by comparison. The only thing that keeps the Tau even remotely interesting lore-wise are characters like Farsight and Shadowsun developing doubts about the current system, and begin to question.

The closest to truly "honorable" factions in 40k are the Orks and Tyranids. They are honest and/or straightforward about what they do. The Hive Mind is about pure survival of the whole, at the expense of all non-Tyranid life. They don't make it personal. They need the biomass and resources of your world, and you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Orks just like to fight, steal, waste ammo, and raise unholy hell. And the Orks will tell you that's how it is.....then smash your face in.

I won't derail the thread further by debating over the Imperium with you. I will say that you are correct.....to a point. The Imperium, at all levels, is a bit more nuanced than simply HURR DURR CATHOLIC SPHESS NAHTZEEZ!!!11oneeleventyone11!


Back on topic.......


I have no interest in the Dark Eldar, since I'm not into gothic vampire horror ultra-kink. Nor am I interested in Chaos, since GW has ignored the multiple aspects of the Chaos Gods, dumbing them down into evil one dimensional, one-trick ponies.

I was excited for the plastic Sisters. And the new ladies in PA look good. But I'm put off over the changes to the Repentia and Pentient Engine models. I get the feeling that they were trying to make them more kid-friendly, which is hilarious considering the setting.

I have no desire to play any canon Space Marine chapters or canon Chaos Space Marine Legions/warbands. I like the concept of the Space Marines, however. If I ever throw together an army, it will be a homebrew chapter. The same goes for the Primaris Marines, with whom I hope Games Workshop will stick with the high-speed, low-drag super-soldier theme, and not turn them into overly grimdark smug bastard, psycho warrior-monks (i.e. the 'First Born" Marines, just bigger). The Primaris are supposed to represent a new age in the Imperium. An age where the Imperium needs super-soldiers to act like super-soldiers, not roid-raging nutters that charge a gazillion insane, nasty galactic a******s with just a chainsword and a battlecry.

I don't care much for the Harlequinns or craftworld Eldar, either. Now, if GW came out with an Exodite line, I would be sold on it in a heartbeat. There is just something about Sphess Elfz riding dinosaurs that's just plain awesome.

Probably Tau for me, from what I've seen of them, it looks like they mostly just sit back and shoot all game, which seems kinda boring to me

BrianDavion wrote:
man making swipes agaisnt entire swaths of people for the army they choose to play? pretty lame

It's pretty true in my experience.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau were never as you say. Even before Games Workshop decided to give in to the neckbeards, who whined that the Tau were too optimistic and not grimdark enough for the setting. Now, the Tau are really no better than any other faction. They're just smart enough to hide it behind high sounding BS, propaganda, mass murder, and mind control. And the Ethereals are now just cardboard cutout, Saturday morning cartoon, moustche-twirling villains who make the Dark Eldar seem deep by comparison. The only thing that keeps the Tau even remotely interesting lore-wise are characters like Farsight and Shadowsun developing doubts about the current system, and begin to question.

No, with the current fluff there's a very crucial difference between them and the Imperium - the Tau do things because it's necessary for survival. The Imperium is senselessly cruel, and in fact will compromise its own survival to inflict more pain and misery on its own people and everyone else.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
I won't derail the thread further by debating over the Imperium with you. I will say that you are correct.....to a point. The Imperium, at all levels, is a bit more nuanced than simply HURR DURR CATHOLIC SPHESS NAHTZEEZ!!!11oneeleventyone11!

Sure, there's a surprising amount of nuance there, but it's important to note that the Imperium isn't *amoral* but rather *immoral*, and the system brutally punishes anyone with anything we would consider a conscience or morality, and rewards the selfish and corrupt.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
I was excited for the plastic Sisters. And the new ladies in PA look good. But I'm put off over the changes to the Repentia and Pentient Engine models. I get the feeling that they were trying to make them more kid-friendly, which is hilarious considering the setting.

They weren't trying to make them more kid-friendly, they were trying to make them seem more unironically heroic, because women are all perfect moral angels amirite?

Hecaton wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
I was excited for the plastic Sisters. And the new ladies in PA look good. But I'm put off over the changes to the Repentia and Pentient Engine models. I get the feeling that they were trying to make them more kid-friendly, which is hilarious considering the setting.

They weren't trying to make them more kid-friendly, they were trying to make them seem more unironically heroic, because women are all perfect moral angels amirite?

oldravenman3025 wrote:
I was excited for the plastic Sisters. And the new ladies in PA look good. But I'm put off over the changes to the Repentia and Pentient Engine models. I get the feeling that they were trying to make them more kid-friendly, which is hilarious considering the setting.

Okay, I have a bunch of things to say about this:

1: Are we seeing the same models for old and new? This isn't the FW keeper of secrets with six exposed nipples we're talking about. The old repentia were pretty hideous models, but weren't naked or not-kid-friendly or anything [or at least, no less kid friendly than the new ones. They've traded sacks over their heads in exchange for spiked collars and more dangly chains, and also some like grafts on their skin]. I would say my disappointment with the repentia was that they kept the weird leather & chains bondage cult aesthetic the old models had instead of going for something like "clad in parchment" like the art often shows. They still look like a goofy BDSM cult, but like, they always looked like that which was the general criticism of their old models, so, uh... not sure what's up with the kid friendlyness.

As a side note, I don't get this whole thing with "40k isn't/shouldn't be kid friendly". This might be my American sensibilities speaking [wherein violence is acceptable for children of all ages but even thinking about the idea of sex is instantly like no-show for anyone under 21] or maybe just a really warped vision of what's acceptable for kids, but like with the exception of the FW keeper of secrets and that one dark eldar model, it's mostly just fantasy/cartoon violence that's almost certainly less realistic than what they're seeing in their video games [also, like it's miniatures. The least kid friendly thing about them is the glue and fine motor skills involved with assembly].



2: Also, like, what's this about the moral angels and how do the pentient engines and repentia have anything to do with that? They're definitely not showing the organization that is the sororitas to be a particularly nice organization, and there are and always have been male and female pilot options for the things.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Okay, I have a bunch of things to say about this:

1: Are we seeing the same models for old and new? This isn't the FW keeper of secrets with six exposed nipples we're talking about. The old repentia were pretty hideous models, but weren't naked or not-kid-friendly or anything [or at least, no less kid friendly than the new ones. They've traded sacks over their heads in exchange for spiked collars and more dangly chains, and also some like grafts on their skin]. I would say my disappointment with the repentia was that they kept the weird leather & chains bondage cult aesthetic the old models had instead of going for something like "clad in parchment" like the art often shows. They still look like a goofy BDSM cult, but like, they always looked like that which was the general criticism of their old models, so, uh... not sure what's up with the kid friendlyness.

They covered up their bodies more with athletic gear, for some reason. It doesn't seem very 40k to me, and is strange juxtaposed with the piercings and so on. Like "Oh these are murderous fascists who kill people who look different but wouldn't want to accidentally catch a sideboob!"

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As a side note, I don't get this whole thing with "40k isn't/shouldn't be kid friendly". This might be my American sensibilities speaking [wherein violence is acceptable for children of all ages but even thinking about the idea of sex is instantly like no-show for anyone under 21] or maybe just a really warped vision of what's acceptable for kids, but like with the exception of the FW keeper of secrets and that one dark eldar model, it's mostly just fantasy/cartoon violence that's almost certainly less realistic than what they're seeing in their video games [also, like it's miniatures. The least kid friendly thing about them is the glue and fine motor skills involved with assembly].

I'm American as well, and I've been playing GW games since I was about eight. My parents didn't really understand how fethed up the setting was, though. But the "not kid friendly" comes in more in terms of actually having the genocidal fascists of the Imperium be, well, genocidal fascists, instead of whitewashing and sanitizing them so that a wine mom will buy them for her kid.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
2: Also, like, what's this about the moral angels and how do the pentient engines and repentia have anything to do with that? They're definitely not showing the organization that is the sororitas to be a particularly nice organization, and there are and always have been male and female pilot options for the things.

Overall, the new changes make the organization seem "nicer."

Chaos.

I have nothing against the Chaos Gods, just how the models are. The Thousand Sons Rubrics are IMHO about as far as I'd go, even though their god is Changer of Ways.

I don't get the tusks and spurs and pus and whatever. I'm toying with the idea of an AL army with only a few embellishments. The "cover in glue and roll in animal parts box" doesn't really do it for me.

I'd like to play Slaanesh, but the 80's music era Noise Marines aesthetic spoiled it for me.

I've had Chaos, so in general, Chaos isn't so bad for me.

Specifically, Nurgle just isn't an army I will ever collect, and only play if someone was loaning me the army (as I have none at present). The sick and rotting theme doesn't work for me and intimidates my painting more than probably any other army, including Harlequins (barely). It also doesn't help that it seems that half the representation of Chaos locally is in Nurgle (they like the painting challenge and do amazing at it, so I can't argue).

Formerly, it would have been a tie between Nurgle and Dark Eldar, but the newer sculpts aren't as S&M as they used to be, and they actually have sparked some interest.

Everyone else I'd probably collect if I had the money to do so.

Hecaton wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Okay, I have a bunch of things to say about this:

1: Are we seeing the same models for old and new? This isn't the FW keeper of secrets with six exposed nipples we're talking about. The old repentia were pretty hideous models, but weren't naked or not-kid-friendly or anything [or at least, no less kid friendly than the new ones. They've traded sacks over their heads in exchange for spiked collars and more dangly chains, and also some like grafts on their skin]. I would say my disappointment with the repentia was that they kept the weird leather & chains bondage cult aesthetic the old models had instead of going for something like "clad in parchment" like the art often shows. They still look like a goofy BDSM cult, but like, they always looked like that which was the general criticism of their old models, so, uh... not sure what's up with the kid friendlyness.

They covered up their bodies more with athletic gear, for some reason. It doesn't seem very 40k to me, and is strange juxtaposed with the piercings and so on. Like "Oh these are murderous fascists who kill people who look different but wouldn't want to accidentally catch a sideboob!"

Uh... I'm sorry, I'm not seeing this anti-fanservice PG-rating conspiracy you're talking about. I have both new and old ones, and they look pretty aesthetically consistent [though the old models are ugly and kind of distored and unnatural looking as hell, but that's just the hallmark of like 25 year old sculpts].

Like,
A: I'm not convinced that their top-thing being strapless was critical to the model's aesthetic or conveying the lore of being disgraced members of the order who wear no armor and trust in faith to protect them. Like, the new models are really faithful to the old designs for the Repentia in a bad way. They still look like a BDSM fetish cult instead of what they're supposed to be because I don't know, naughty nuns are hot for leather, chains, and piercings?
B: Neither the old nor new aesthetic looks at all like the art and general thematic description where they wore a tabard made of scripture.

Like, I understand "I don't like them, they're weird looking," or "I don't like them, they don't match the old lore." I don't understand "I don't like them because they're less hot than the old models" because they're not any less weirdly fanservice-y, unless you're into face-sacks, in which case, well, that's very specific and I don't think having bags on their heads made them unsuitable for children before.

There are lots of reasons to dislike the army, some of them valid and some that I won't touch with a 11ft pole. But this one confuses me like hell.

Hecaton wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
As a side note, I don't get this whole thing with "40k isn't/shouldn't be kid friendly". This might be my American sensibilities speaking [wherein violence is acceptable for children of all ages but even thinking about the idea of sex is instantly like no-show for anyone under 21] or maybe just a really warped vision of what's acceptable for kids, but like with the exception of the FW keeper of secrets and that one dark eldar model, it's mostly just fantasy/cartoon violence that's almost certainly less realistic than what they're seeing in their video games [also, like it's miniatures. The least kid friendly thing about them is the glue and fine motor skills involved with assembly].

I'm American as well, and I've been playing GW games since I was about eight. My parents didn't really understand how fethed up the setting was, though. But the "not kid friendly" comes in more in terms of actually having the genocidal fascists of the Imperium be, well, genocidal fascists, instead of whitewashing and sanitizing them so that a wine mom will buy them for her kid.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
2: Also, like, what's this about the moral angels and how do the pentient engines and repentia have anything to do with that? They're definitely not showing the organization that is the sororitas to be a particularly nice organization, and there are and always have been male and female pilot options for the things.

Overall, the new changes make the organization seem "nicer."

I'm not sure how. Like, none of the lore has been changed, they've even added in the Anchorite and Mortifier [which are recaptured defectors from the order and repentia who rout in battle, respectively], and the models themselves have more torturey medieval stuff on it. Like, seriously, I'm not even sure if we're looking at the same models, the new pilots are screaming and contorted with all kinds of hoses and face masks and syringes and even an iron maiden on one of them.
That said, I'm kind of sad they dropped the religious punishment overtones that was the previous pilot being in a tunic in a crucifix pose with no real other ancillary torture-stuff for just going ham on the "medieval torturer's dungeon" aesthetic with like that mask with the hoses into his eyes, the coffin with the syringes, or the stocks that one guy has.

Tau!

"But you own a Tau army?"

Yes, but I didn't buy that army. It was given to me. I would never have started a Tau army of my own accord.