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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
Channels like MWG and StrikingScorpion82 pretty much filled my Warhammer content when I was first getting into the hobby, watching things like Apocalypticon and Narrative Campaigns.
Obviously, times have changed and clickbait title "news" channels get all the views.

People give MWG a lot of guff for not being on point with the rules, but honestly even that serves a public good. When I was learning Warmachine (arguably a far better game to watch live than 40k), being able to *spot* rules errors was a real learning keystone.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is NOT at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..

The level of dedication and research to some of of those videos is some academics scholarly level of work..

If there is a "Devid Beckham studies" course at uni. I think its about time we introduce a "warhmamer studies" where people can dedicate their lives to discovering the true nature of the emperor and the old ones :p

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:22:18


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




catbarf wrote:
Flipsiders wrote:Mitigating damages is an important moral consideration of IP law, but encouraging original work is almost as important.
Says who?

Seriously. IP protections are invoked by the rightsholder to defend ownership of their content against unlicensed use. Those rights are the maintenance of the rightsholder; not society as a whole over some nebulous principle of encouraging original work.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Purpose_of_copyright
The Congress shall have Power [...] to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
— United States Constitution

The goal of copyright law, as set forth in the Copyright Clause of the US Constitution, is "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."[6] This includes incentivizing the creation of art, literature, architecture, music, and other works of authorship. As with many legal doctrines, the effectiveness of copyright law in achieving its stated purpose is a matter of debate.[7]
The original idea (before endless copyright protection extensions) was that you'd get the exclusive copyright for a limited time (14 years, plus a possible 14 year extension) and after that your work would fall into the public domain "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

It wasn't supposed to be about corporations hoarding some copyright for a hundred years and "defending" it. Works were supposed to to be shared. Copyright was a compromise to incentivise creation, not to enable hoarding. That 14 year protection was for a time when you couldn't sent your work around the whole world with one click of your mouse.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Mario wrote:
catbarf wrote:
Flipsiders wrote:Mitigating damages is an important moral consideration of IP law, but encouraging original work is almost as important.
Says who?

Seriously. IP protections are invoked by the rightsholder to defend ownership of their content against unlicensed use. Those rights are the maintenance of the rightsholder; not society as a whole over some nebulous principle of encouraging original work.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_United_States#Purpose_of_copyright
The Congress shall have Power [...] to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
— United States Constitution

The goal of copyright law, as set forth in the Copyright Clause of the US Constitution, is "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."[6] This includes incentivizing the creation of art, literature, architecture, music, and other works of authorship. As with many legal doctrines, the effectiveness of copyright law in achieving its stated purpose is a matter of debate.[7]
The original idea (before endless copyright protection extensions) was that you'd get the exclusive copyright for a limited time (14 years, plus a possible 14 year extension) and after that your work would fall into the public domain "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts".

It wasn't supposed to be about corporations hoarding some copyright for a hundred years and "defending" it. Works were supposed to to be shared. Copyright was a compromise to incentivise creation, not to enable hoarding. That 14 year protection was for a time when you couldn't sent your work around the whole world with one click of your mouse.


At the other side of the spectrum, china's entire MO is literally making knock offs of EVERYTHING and ANYTHING.
Nobody cares about US congress provisions over there..


But some countries still have a limited time provision on copy right.
I believe UK is at 70 years.. Could be wrong as its been a long time since I learned about it lol

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/05 23:55:57



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.


Just say you used the link I showed you before and read the interventions of Venris like me. You shouldn't try to make it sound like you're personnally in the knowledge.

You suspect it's GW because both Radious and Venris didn't name who and say "wait for the official statement" and you'd like it to be GW since that's what you're claiming from the beginning.

Though you forgot to take into account that one person from CA did state in the announcements section that an official statement will follow later.
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

Sarouan wrote:


Just say you used the link I showed you before and read the interventions of Venris like me. You shouldn't try to make it sound like you're personnally in the knowledge.

You suspect it's GW because both Radious and Venris didn't name who and say "wait for the official statement" and you'd like it to be GW since that's what you're claiming from the beginning.

Though you forgot to take into account that one person from CA did state in the announcements section that an official statement will follow later.


What Link?

Edit: Went and found what you were talking about. Sorry, but I didn't need your link to find that out, I too have the power of reddit.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:17:50



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.


I typod big time - I meant to say I hope channels disappearing is NOT at the end of the rope

Personaly - I like nothing more than to veg out at and listen to an epic 1.5hr breakdown of the most bonkers weapons in 40k universe by Luetin while I paint
Or a time line universe breakdown of 40k (if such a thing is possible). Or virtually any other topic that's remotely interesting..

As someone already interested in the setting, the lore channels are an amazing archive of information.
So much of their research is for stuff no longer in production and hasn't been for decades in a lot cases; as a new comer, you simply would not be aware of the existence of old school lore.
I certainly don't have the time, will or resource to look through obscure OOP WD, novels or whatever else to learn what a tyranid would normally eat on a Tuesday..

This would sterilise the universe/setting/hobby to unbearable amounts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:32:55


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.


Is this not being limited to CA games meant to change something here? If that is the case, then it suggests what they're doing is stopping people profiting off their IP via using their brand to advertise their patreons and such. I don't see how it really has much of a difference whether that is limited to CA games or not, it's the other part that's the important factor.

The whole "announcement" thing seems odd to me too, I don't get the impression they've signed anything that means they actually can't tell us the details of what they know and have been told.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:27:16


 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.


Is this not being limited to CA games meant to change something here? If that is the case, then it suggests what they're doing is stopping people profiting off their IP via using their brand to advertise their patreons and such. I don't see how it really has much of a difference whether that is limited to CA games or not, it's the other part that's the important factor.

The whole "announcement" thing seems odd to me too, I don't get the impression they've signed anything that means they actually can't tell us the details of what they know.


agreed. reading his post it just sounds like GW is implimenting policies for mods for their games... and guess what guys... Every game does that, it's why you can't find nudity mods for say.. skyrim on the steam workshop, even though everyone knows those exist

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:29:16


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

BrianDavion wrote:

agreed. reading his post it just sounds like GW is implimenting policies for mods for their games... and guess what guys... Every game does that, it's why you can't find nudity mods for say.. skyrim on the steam workshop, even though everyone knows those exist


Actually for a long time CBBE's Russian translation was on Steam. But I digress.

However, you also don't hear about Bethesda sending Lover's Lab Cease and Desists, to use the same metaphor. It's NOT actually something all publishers do. Generally speaking most mods are treated as the modder's work, rather than the Game developers, and THIER property. Example: DOTA, which started out as a Warcraft 3 mod. Blizzard's position that it owns all mods to it's games is considered an outlier rather than the mainstream, and has yet to go anywhere in court.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:43:06



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






BrianDavion wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Word has it that this GW modding business is not limited to CA linked games, but I've been asked not to share the who's and whys. Not that I actually know them, but someone on discord was making people swear to silence. . I suspect that it's GW rather than CA, or even Valve, that are pushing this. Accoridng ot Radeous, there's going to be an announcement soon, but I'm not sure I believe him.


Is this not being limited to CA games meant to change something here? If that is the case, then it suggests what they're doing is stopping people profiting off their IP via using their brand to advertise their patreons and such. I don't see how it really has much of a difference whether that is limited to CA games or not, it's the other part that's the important factor.

The whole "announcement" thing seems odd to me too, I don't get the impression they've signed anything that means they actually can't tell us the details of what they know.


agreed. reading his post it just sounds like GW is implimenting policies for mods for their games... and guess what guys... Every game does that, it's why you can't find nudity mods for say.. skyrim on the steam workshop, even though everyone knows those exist


Not every game aggressively persecutes mods or modders "Coz Mah Ip!!!" though...

Not really sure how this will all end, but when a company whips out its giant D**& on the table it usually means that's where they're heading..

As someone who has pre purchased TWWH3 and pretty much bought every single DLC for TW WH games/ many TW games if the mods I use / want to try out are attacked (and this will 100% result in future mods not happening for the new games), I will simply request a refund and happily walk away from the franchise.

I can play other games or spend my time & money on limitless number of other things...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 00:40:51


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Even undeniably scholarly work like dedicated history channels run by tenured professors get their videos demonetized constantly, Youtube has little regard for educational videos. If GW wants the lore videos gone, they will be.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 BaronIveagh wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

agreed. reading his post it just sounds like GW is implimenting policies for mods for their games... and guess what guys... Every game does that, it's why you can't find nudity mods for say.. skyrim on the steam workshop, even though everyone knows those exist


Actually for a long time CBBE's Russian translation was on Steam. But I digress.

However, you also don't hear about Bethesda sending Lover's Lab Cease and Desists, to use the same metaphor. It's NOT actually something all publishers do. Generally speaking most mods are treated as the modder's work, rather than the Game developers, and THIER property. Example: DOTA, which started out as a Warcraft 3 mod. Blizzard's position that it owns all mods to it's games is considered an outlier rather than the mainstream, and has yet to go anywhere in court.


I'm weighing in specificly on what's being said. they where told they could not have pateron links on their steam workshop

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

BrianDavion wrote:


I'm weighing in specificly on what's being said. they where told they could not have pateron links on their steam workshop


But that's CA's policy, not Steams (IIRC). Thus, my point still stands. It'd be like Bethesda trying to demontize people on Nexus mods.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 01:26:19



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 BaronIveagh wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


I'm weighing in specificly on what's being said. they where told they could not have pateron links on their steam workshop


But that's CA's policy, not Steams (IIRC). Thus, my point still stands. It'd be like Bethesda trying to demontize people on Nexus mods.


Nah steam acts according to the wishes of the developers when it includes mods or not, thats why some games don't even have mod support on steam

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Arachnofiend wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Even undeniably scholarly work like dedicated history channels run by tenured professors get their videos demonetized constantly, Youtube has little regard for educational videos. If GW wants the lore videos gone, they will be.


Then all that will be left is rubbish like 1d4chan. Do you want to have newer players think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine? Because that's how you get people to think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine...



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grimtuff wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Even undeniably scholarly work like dedicated history channels run by tenured professors get their videos demonetized constantly, Youtube has little regard for educational videos. If GW wants the lore videos gone, they will be.


Then all that will be left is rubbish like 1d4chan. Do you want to have newer players think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine? Because that's how you get people to think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine...


I am pretty sure 1d4chan is near the top of content creators GW want rid of. But the website is on its own platform and protected by its obvious use of review and parody.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Grimtuff wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Argive wrote:
I really hope that some of the major lore channels disappearing is at the end of this rope GW are tuggin..


This is something a lot of the lore channels are sweating over.

Even undeniably scholarly work like dedicated history channels run by tenured professors get their videos demonetized constantly, Youtube has little regard for educational videos. If GW wants the lore videos gone, they will be.


Then all that will be left is rubbish like 1d4chan. Do you want to have newer players think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine? Because that's how you get people to think Gulliman is bonking Yvraine...


or ya know reading lexnicum etc. but I suppose expecting kids to read these days is a bit to much

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 BaronIveagh wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


I'm weighing in specificly on what's being said. they where told they could not have pateron links on their steam workshop


But that's CA's policy, not Steams (IIRC). Thus, my point still stands. It'd be like Bethesda trying to demontize people on Nexus mods.


People are allowed to make mods for Warhammer games, they're allowed to have a patrreon, but what it seems GW are stopping here is them using those Warhammer Mods to advertise their Patreon. They don't seem to "going after modders" like the title claims, but the use of their brand name itself to generate income.

Sunno wrote:


Now it seems that GW have contacted many of the big mod makers



I'm wondering, just where did this part of the line come from - who are the rest? How did 1, potentially 2, mod makers being contacted became "many"?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 11:29:28


 
   
Made in us
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

I'm wondering, just where did this part of the line come from - who are the rest? How did 1, potentially 2, mod makers being contacted became "many"?


You know, we've heard this line from GW apologists before, when they started mass mailing C&Ds. First it was one or two sites, then 10 sites, then 30, then 50...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

People are allowed to make mods for Warhammer games, they're allowed to have a patrreon, but what it seems GW are stopping here is them using those Warhammer Mods to advertise their Patreon.


No, they're not. Read the IP policy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 12:41:46



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

I'm wondering, just where did this part of the line come from - who are the rest? How did 1, potentially 2, mod makers being contacted became "many"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

People are allowed to make mods for Warhammer games, they're allowed to have a patrreon, but what it seems GW are stopping here is them using those Warhammer Mods to advertise their Patreon.


No, they're not. Read the IP policy.


You're calling me a "GW apologist" for asking why 2 people (I've only seen 2 mentioned in this thread and haven't seen any others discussed elsewhere) was written as "many"? Really?

And no, It's absurd to claim mods aren't allowed when that's exactly what the workshop is - mods for a warhammer game. Vermintide 2 has a workshop as well. So does Gladius. Mods are allowed and that hasn't changed. What the guidelines say you aren't allowed is making your own games, and what this situation so far appears to be is not being allowed to use the IP to advertise.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 12:52:40


 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

And no, It's absurd to claim mods aren't allowed when that's exactly what the workshop is - mods for a warhammer game. Vermintide 2 has a workshop as well. So does Gladius. Mods are allowed and that hasn't changed. What the guidelines say you aren't allowed is making your own games, and what this situation so far appears to be is not being allowed to use the IP to advertise.


Because modding is copyright infringement, as mods are considered derivative works. Since GW's policy now expressly prohibits unlicensed games and apps, this would also include mods. Modding usually is at the discretion of the publisher, however, as the ultimate rights holder is GW, this gets muddled, and could be why CA made the distinction that it was not 'their' policy that had changed.

Further, just an FYI: Modding is a bit odd, as the law gives the rights holder the right to pursue, OR NOT, potential infringements. Some companies choose to exercise one, others the other, though to be blunt, lack of modding support can sink a game in the current market, and I suspect that GW is torpedoing their own potential income here, by assuming that video games work like table top games and people will buy their products no matter what.

It's entirely possible that previously, GW gave the game publishers free reign on the issue, and like animations, are now cracking down.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

You're calling me a "GW apologist" for asking why 2 people (I've only seen 2 mentioned in this thread and haven't seen any others discussed elsewhere) was written as "many"? Really?


No, I'm calling you a 'GW apologist' because that's all I've seen you post for about a week.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 13:43:26



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

BrianDavion wrote:
agreed. reading his post it just sounds like GW is implimenting policies for mods for their games... and guess what guys... Every game does that, it's why you can't find nudity mods for say.. skyrim on the steam workshop, even though everyone knows those exist


That's absolutely wrong. You can't (easily) find NSFW mods on Steam Workshop simply because of Steam's policies, not because of developers/publishers. Valve doesn't want to deal with someone's kid grabbing an X-rated mod for an E-rated game off the workshop and blaming Steam. Off Steam, you can find nudity mods for damn near every mod-supported RPG made in the last two decades.

Most developers do not care about mods, or actively encourage a mod community and don't bother trying to curate it.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Because modding is copyright infringement, as mods are considered derivative works.


Sometimes. Maybe. Depends on the mod in question. Developing your own code to interface with an existing product is not necessarily derivative work. It depends on how much you reuse.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 15:19:56


   
Made in us
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Seneca Nation of Indians

 catbarf wrote:

Sometimes. Maybe. Depends on the mod in question. Developing your own code to interface with an existing product is not necessarily derivative work. It depends on how much you reuse.


Under the precedent set by the ruling in MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc it is, since the very act of loading software into RAM produces an unauthorized copy. Yes, I know, that's mindbogglingly stupid, but it's an example of the problems where copyright and modern technology collide.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 catbarf wrote:

Sometimes. Maybe. Depends on the mod in question. Developing your own code to interface with an existing product is not necessarily derivative work. It depends on how much you reuse.


Under the precedent set by the ruling in MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc it is, since the very act of loading software into RAM produces an unauthorized copy. Yes, I know, that's mindbogglingly stupid, but it's an example of the problems where copyright and modern technology collide.


MAI v Peak was about a commercial repairman using an OS for which only the end user had a license agreement- it set a precedent for licensing but isn't directly relevant to mods. More directly relevant would be Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., which established that use of a device intended to modify game code did not violate Nintendo's copyright, followed by Micro Star v. Formgen Inc., which narrowed the analysis to conclude that a pack of user-made mods for Duke Nukem 3D constituted a derivative work as it made use of story/characters from the original game and did not meet the standards of fair use. Those are also Ninth Circuit rulings.

Unless I missed something big in the couple of years since going through those in school, the current industry takeaway is that any mod leveraging assets from the original game- even indirectly- is derivative, but some mods might not violate copyright, or some might but could be defended as fair use. But most importantly, nobody particularly wants to go to court to find out, as it's more beneficial to everyone involved to either tolerate or encourage mods*.

* With the exception of those that circumvent security measures and thus both run afoul of DMCA restrictions and represent a financial threat to the publisher.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 16:21:27


   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




United Kingdom

At the other side of the spectrum, china's entire MO is literally making knock offs of EVERYTHING and ANYTHING.
Nobody cares about US congress provisions over there..


what goes around comes around

China and the US are very similar on that - China isn't interested in other countries IP which would largely get in the way of their own current economic interests, and would largely be focused on benefitting the US or 'the west'.

Go back a century before the rise of the US over European powers and conventions and that was pretty much the same way the US saw stuff, IP laws from foreign places were largely side lined in favour of US economic self interest. For copyright they only finally brought themselves into the Berne treaty in the late 1980's.

PS I don' say that in a negative or positive way - it is simply to be expected that any nation will look to it's interest over such vague and notional concepts as rights of creators to somehow control who can copy what they created first.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





OKC, OK USA

The fairly recent crackdowns on KO producers in China has been largely of benefit to Western/US based companies with economic interests in China. China has definitely changed their policy regarding KOs and bootlegs, at least for major company IPs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/06 16:52:40


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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BaronIveagh wrote:

It's entirely possible that previously, GW gave the game publishers free reign on the issue, and like animations, are now cracking down.


Not really. GW's always controlling what the game publishers do with their IP. That's why they can't do whatever they want while depicting the background, factions or even the designs of everything Warhammer.

See also the CA guideline for Total War Warhammer mod that is up since 2016 here : https://www.totalwar.com/cc-disclaimer/

GW controlling their IP in video games and mods is nothing new.




No, I'm calling you a 'GW apologist' because that's all I've seen you post for about a week.


Pot calling the kettle, here. If he's a "GW apologist" for his posts, then what are you with your own distorting facts or jumping on conclusions unless called on it and forced to go back reluclantly. Guess someone could call you a "GW hater".

Won't really change the debate, anyway.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 16:59:07


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 BaronIveagh wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:

And no, It's absurd to claim mods aren't allowed when that's exactly what the workshop is - mods for a warhammer game. Vermintide 2 has a workshop as well. So does Gladius. Mods are allowed and that hasn't changed. What the guidelines say you aren't allowed is making your own games, and what this situation so far appears to be is not being allowed to use the IP to advertise.


Because modding is copyright infringement, as mods are considered derivative works. Since GW's policy now expressly prohibits unlicensed games and apps, this would also include mods. Modding usually is at the discretion of the publisher, however, as the ultimate rights holder is GW, this gets muddled, and could be why CA made the distinction that it was not 'their' policy that had changed.

Further, just an FYI: Modding is a bit odd, as the law gives the rights holder the right to pursue, OR NOT, potential infringements. Some companies choose to exercise one, others the other, though to be blunt, lack of modding support can sink a game in the current market, and I suspect that GW is torpedoing their own potential income here, by assuming that video games work like table top games and people will buy their products no matter what.

It's entirely possible that previously, GW gave the game publishers free reign on the issue, and like animations, are now cracking down.


So in a situation where:

- a couple of mod makers have been contacted by someone. Those mod makers were supposedly asked to remove the warhammer branding from their patreons which they were using to profit/advertise.
- They were not made to either stop modding the games themselves, or take down their patreons
- CA are completely unaware of any sort of policy change
- GW have not taken any action against other mods - of which there are dozens for TW:W alone - in general and neither have they shown any indication of trying to stop mods themselves from being made
- Multiple other Warhammer games have workshop pages, the whole point of which is effectively giving users permission to make and allowing mod support officially
- Those other games have not had any action taken against their mods either
- GWs IP guidelines do not mention mods at all, only making games and apps without their permission as something not allowed

You've decided that "they're trying to stop modding" is what they're doing here, despite the action here involving the use of the brand as advertising and not the mods themselves, which means what has happened does not supporting that narrative at all?

Seems ironic how you call me a "GW apologist" yet you're misrepresenting the situation to try and make out GW to be in the wrong regardless of what has actually happened here.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/06 17:03:47


 
   
 
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