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I really hope one day they release those twin winged draconic monsters for Fyreslayers!
Maybe Forgeworld, but I wouldn't count too much on it. Otherwise, just use the magma dragon.
Anyway, this update doesn't bring anything new other than the forge and their invocation. 15 Warscrolls mean they just added the Doomseeker and the two units from Underworld (character and Chosen Axes) to the original 12 from the previous book.
Points drops shown. Heroes went up 20 pts. However based on what points drops are being released by the aos celebrities that have the book already (refer to youtube, podcasts, twitter) this army is trending above khorne and goblin book and on par with skaven or slightly below them.
If the ones that kept their beard save can be made battleline they made their spike build visible in less than 30 seconds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/13 13:44:04
Well as of checking warscroll builder, H-Beserkers need a runefather as general and the shooting ones need the Runemaster as general for those units to become battleline. Large units of these guys will be scary with the amount of attacks and how durable they can be.
Nearly 3k+ points of Slaanesh (AoS)
2500 points of Ironjawz
Too many points of Space Marines.
yep. Once those can be battleline, you will pretty much always see that being done and then spammed spike-style for the win.
Definitely from what I'm seeing a step up above from khorne and the goblin book. Gut feeling is a step below FEC and on par with skaven. Which follows the pattern they laid out.
Which means if thats true, slaanesh will be on par with khorne, and a solid fun book but below the power curve of their tier 1 creations that they are creating every other or so release.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/13 16:10:43
auticus wrote: Points drops shown. Heroes went up 20 pts. However based on what points drops are being released by the aos celebrities that have the book already (refer to youtube, podcasts, twitter) this army is trending above khorne and goblin book and on par with skaven or slightly below them.
If the ones that kept their beard save can be made battleline they made their spike build visible in less than 30 seconds.
I don't know if I would put them at Skaven level, but they do seem to be quite good.
The stand out unit though is the Hearthguard Berzekers. They are nuts for 120 pts now.
I'm talking about the spike build being at skaven level. The spike build will have the berzerkers spammed en masse. Its definitely from the math anyway a good head better than the goblins or the khorne book can produce, which is where I evaluate the skaven to be.
The FEC book goes over the skaven book. Its definitely up there in that triumvirate of powerbuild (again from the math) because the berzerkers are pretty much on that border of not just undercost, but grossly undercost.
auticus wrote: I'm talking about the spike build being at skaven level. The spike build will have the berzerkers spammed en masse. Its definitely from the math anyway a good head better than the goblins or the khorne book can produce, which is where I evaluate the skaven to be.
The FEC book goes over the skaven book. Its definitely up there in that triumvirate of powerbuild (again from the math) because the berzerkers are pretty much on that border of not just undercost, but grossly undercost.
I agree that as they currently are they are above BoK and GG. I don't know if they are at Skaven level though. I feel it's a pretty solid jump from those two to Skaven, as Skaven started putting up tourny results right out of the gate.
That being said, I hope they are. It really doesn't bother me if underrepresented factions like Fyreslayers are a bit on the stronger side right out of the gate.
It bothers me greatly to see them piss all over the game's balance when they do stuff like that.
It continues the dance of some armies are viable and many others are not. That does nothing positive for the game other than cause people to sell off armies and buy the new ones regularly.
How does it benefit the game as a whole to release a faction, even underrepresented (there is usually a reason why its underrepresented) that is head and shoulders above most of the other factions? (and we're talking even armies that are released with the 2.0 design paradigm that are supposed to all be even keel with each other)
Points actually go up for Fyreslayers. But yeah, Hearthguard Berserkers are nuts at 120 points, but remember you get 5 at that cost. Here is a video from Miniwargaming, who got the book :
They're good, not a problem, but...well, their troops are all infantry and they're not especially the fastest. They also are very single minded in the way they play. One big unit of Berserkers can be a pain in the ass to deal with, sure, but it's expensive as hell and you have tools to keep it from the main action in some armies. Or kill the characters first who boost the berserker's resistance dramatically. They also need a lot more to be "fully within" so that their abilities work, and with 32 mm bases, it can sometimes be difficult.
Better to have the full picture before judging.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/13 21:02:30
They are indeed 120 for 5 or 240 for 10. They have a 5+ save and basically a 4+ save after that against anything, AND now have 2 wounds. Additionally they have 2 attacks that are 3/3 -1 2 damage OR have the ability to pop 2 mortal wounds plus normal damage for the pole axe.
For their point cost compared to similar units in the game at or near their power index (being the average damage they produce plus how much damage it takes to remove them on average) they come out to 19% undercost for their value. Compared to the opposite end of the spectrum (varanguard, they are 28% overcost) these guys sit in the deep red zone for being broken based on their points cost. To bring them onto the current bell curve they would need cost 160 points for 5, and that would still make them a strong choice.
That wouldn't be as big of a deal except in addition they can also be made battleline. So the name of the powergame is to spam spam spam these guys.
The other things that have been said, that they have to be fully within, that you just kill the heroes, etc, can be said about any of the factions in the game that are both fine and OP.
I can get a good idea about where this is going based on the math the same as we could with FEC and skaven and seraphon when the summoning came back unchained last summer.
These guys will be the basis of all power builds and will be the unit you pretty much only see with some smattering of other things (heroes not withstanding) here and there.
Now paired against FEC and skaven, or certain other builds like the seraphon power builds, these will probably result in some pretty good games. But this release right now is a kick to the balls to the khorne players and I'm willing to bet based on the roller coaster curve they've been proving (Goblins middling, FEC busted, skaven busted, khorne middling, Fyreslayers at least overly strong (won't say busted just yet) that the slaanesh book will be middling simply because thats been the pattern (middle tier fun book, followed by over the top busted book, repeat)
Fyre slayers can tank like nurgle armies, and additionally do a ton of damage, whereas nurgle armies typically don't do much damage, or armies like khorne can do lots of damage but aren't as tanky. And they aren't paying the price for their ability, they are getting kmart discounts for it. Now the apparent "weakness" is a 4" move. With potential run and move of 16", the only thing missing here is an ability that lets them run and charge to offset that as well. (the double turn can also help with that naturally).
Also apparently a lodge that boosts movement, so even this 'weakness' can be offset through 30 seconds of listbuilding synergizing.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/04/13 22:31:05
Or just use a runesmiter to tunnel them in, and as an added bonus they are +1 to charge thanks to music. And the smiter can buff them in subsequent phases. And he triggers the 4+ beard save.
It was a mistake to buff them to 2w but let them keep the 4+ beard save. That means it takes 4 damage to kill each guy, so that 120 points is, in effect, a 20-wound unit. Yeah they lose it if they aren't within 10" of a hero but how often will that realistically be. If hero sniping is a big concern bring shooty hearthguard and they can intercept wounds.
Pretty excited with the changes. Mine have been shelved since 2.0 as they were just boring and Magmadroths felt pretty soft, but now the Army looks to be powerful across the board.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
nels1031 wrote: Bought all the new stuff for my Fyreslayers.
Pretty excited with the changes. Mine have been shelved since 2.0 as they were just boring and Magmadroths felt pretty soft, but now the Army looks to be powerful across the board.
I think one of the best bonus' will be that you don't have to put 90+ models on the battlefield anymore.
I think they did a great job with this book, for what little is available in the model range. I'm hoping everything sells well enough so that they get a new wave of models in the future.
nels1031 wrote: Bought all the new stuff for my Fyreslayers.
Pretty excited with the changes. Mine have been shelved since 2.0 as they were just boring and Magmadroths felt pretty soft, but now the Army looks to be powerful across the board.
I think one of the best bonus' will be that you don't have to put 90+ models on the battlefield anymore.
I think they did a great job with this book, for what little is available in the model range. I'm hoping everything sells well enough so that they get a new wave of models in the future.
I totally agree; I think while Fyreslayers have not actually been bad in 2nd ed the monumental price to running them properly has put people off who do want to run them. A good move by GW to up the wounds and point cost.
I totally agree; I think while Fyreslayers have not actually been bad in 2nd ed the monumental price to running them properly has put people off who do want to run them. A good move by GW to up the wounds and point cost.
Fyreslayers fell off the map in 2.0. Almost sold mine and started painting up Khorne stuff, before the battletome rumors started.
As far as pricing, I thought for sure we’d get reboxed Hearthguard at the least, like Stormcast received that made their price more reasonable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/14 19:16:30
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Sasori wrote: I’m hoping everything sells well enough so that they get a new wave of models in the future.
Yep, I’d like young Runesons riding juvenile Magmadroths, maybe a warmachine.
I mean, you kinda got young Runesons riding juvenile Magmadroths...
They're just the normal Runeson on Magmadroth profile, without mount traits I'd assume.
I'm thinking they meant more of a Dracoth Riders/Demigryph type unit for the Stunties.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Sasori wrote: I’m hoping everything sells well enough so that they get a new wave of models in the future.
Yep, I’d like young Runesons riding juvenile Magmadroths, maybe a warmachine.
I mean, you kinda got young Runesons riding juvenile Magmadroths...
They're just the normal Runeson on Magmadroth profile, without mount traits I'd assume.
Smaller ones, Dracoth sized would be cool.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Ehhhh...I'd feel like that is just giving Dwarves cavalry for the sake of cavalry, even if they were still Heroes.
Not saying it wouldn't be cool though!
I was surprised that the Rune of Movement thing even still existed personally. They've gotten rid of a lot of those kinds of tricksy bits.
So a GT near me just finished up. The two FEC players won 1st and 2nd place (no surprise) followed by DoK then SCE (also no surprise). But I want to note that the 5th place was KO. That guy has been showing up to tournaments with them since release, sticking with KO even when they got nerfed into oblivion. He shows up knowing he won't do well but tries anyways and through all those losses has gotten really good at the army. It paid off big time when he was able to capitalize on a deployment mistake of a LoN player, killing both Nagash and Arkhan turn 1 (tbf they played another game for fun where the LoN player went first, and he wiped 2/3 the KO army off the table turn 1).
Just goes to show that with a bit of luck and a lot of skill you can do decently once in a while even with a low-tier army. But perhaps more importantly that eating losses against better armies is probably the best practice.
In before people say that this proves the game is totally balanced.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/15 19:13:38
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Yep, taking the survey now and can confirm that Ogors are there. 3 Sub Factions in brackets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/15 21:19:55
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
Only reason I took the survey, to be honest. Just to make sure they weren't trying to sneak a discontinuation past us.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
