Switch Theme:

Imperial Guard 9th Edition Tactics  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




bat702 wrote:
I really love the idea of a Guard-horde, but seriously painting that many guards-men is so beyond torturous to any hobbyist unless you go for the minimum cheesy 3 colors. Also moving that many guardsmen every turn and deploying them etc, is also a bit of a horrible experience.


The most I've ever played with was 150 something models. I definitely remember taking at least 30 minutes to deploy, 30 minutes to do my first turn, and that time quickly shrinking as the game went on. I've been playing since 3rd edition though, so I've had years to let that collection grow.

 PaddyMick wrote:
@Jarms

Love it mate, you have to shout CHAaArgGh!! at the start of every movement phase, and actually vocalise the Orders from the commanders, and you'll be golden. Also play without movement trays to tilt your oppo.

Seriously though, Agile Warriors (re-roll advances) and Wilderness Survivors (always in cover) seem like the doctrines here.


To be honest, while I love Mordians idea. I think that can be done better with Militarum Tempestus. I made a mock up list here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/797737.page

Same concept, except pure infantry Scions as Lambdan Lions. In summary that list is:

- 3 Tempestor Primes with command rods.
- 2 Primaris Psykers
- Aradia Madellan

- 18 Militarum Tempestus Scions Squads with 10 models in each. Meaning 180 actual 4+ armoured soldiers.

- 1 Commissar
- 3 Wyrdvane Psyker Squads with 3 models each.

The Wyrdvane Psykers you basically use as servitors and to trigger the stratagem for the Primaris Psykers (including Aradia). I gave them Gaze of the Emperor to give them some way to get mortal wounds if needed. The Primaris Psykers have Psychic Barrier or Nightshroud, and both have Psychic Maelstrom.

Basically all Psykers will use Smite first, and then move onto their own mortal wound powers once they become more efficient. This is assuming I pop off the stratagem, and only after I use their buffing powers.

The Commissar is purely there because I didn't know what else to do with the remaining points. Maybe he can do some It's For Your Own Good to save me from taking mortal wounds.

The Scions themselves, you can bring those Primes up to 3 orders each with the Warlord trait, relic, and then the stratagem. So you can still get 9 of those squads to Move, Move, Move on first turn if needed. The rest could go into Aerial Drop for free and literally go anywhere over the board turn 2.

The other great thing with the Scions and being Lions. Their basic weapons are AP-3, so you'll be wounding the same as lasguns but you'll actually be forcing enemies onto their invuls. Then there's the free Tempestor plasma pistols, the fact that they basically get Lord's Approval without the Officer requirement (all their melee attacks are also AP-1), then there's the stratagems. Such as:

- Hotshots can be increased to S4 with Point Blank Efficacy.
- Killing Zone can be used on big threats, provided you can kill 1 model.
- Unquestioning Obedience is simply better than anything Commissars can do.
- They can get that extra Warlord trait.
- You can use Grenadiers on AP-2 krak grenades, or AP-1 frag grenades.
- Take Cover will give them a 3+ save, 2+ if they are also getting the benefits of cover.

This is personally the list someone should try for Guard. In terms of models it's only 30 something smaller. With way more flexibility. It should also do far more damage than the Guardsmen's standard lasguns ever would.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/22 07:01:53


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Tempestous scions horde is an interesting concept. Does the secondary While we stand we fight benefit this list, as a 90 point scion squad is the most expensive unit and you can keep 3 of them in reserve until turn 3 then hide them, for 15 extra cheesy victory points?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
While i'm here can anyone tell me if we are allowed to use Specialist Detachments any more? I may have missed an FAQ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 08:50:05


My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 PaddyMick wrote:
Tempestous scions horde is an interesting concept. Does the secondary While we stand we fight benefit this list, as a 90 point scion squad is the most expensive unit and you can keep 3 of them in reserve until turn 3 then hide them, for 15 extra cheesy victory points?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
While i'm here can anyone tell me if we are allowed to use Specialist Detachments any more? I may have missed an FAQ...


That could be something to try. Risky though. Highly board and opponent dependent. Though with this you can literally do basically any non-killing secondaries, including psyker ones. Though psykers ones are typically pretty bad.

You can use specialist detachments in narrative play still. Though I would always ask your opponent first.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Question time again sorry folks, im in list writing mode:

With the exception of tempestous scions, if I have 2 different regiments in an army, can they use each others transports?

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






With the exception of the Hades Breaching drill: yes
Chimera Taurox and Valkyrie only need "Astra Militarum" as keyword to be boarded

Edit: note that Scions can also jump inside, it's just the Taurox Prime that can exclusively transport Scions

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 20:19:10


~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Jarms48 wrote:

You can use specialist detachments in narrative play still. Though I would always ask your opponent first.


You can use it in matched play as well. But not in GT2020.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





 Pyroalchi wrote:
With the exception of the Hades Breaching drill: yes
Chimera Taurox and Valkyrie only need "Astra Militarum" as keyword to be boarded

Edit: note that Scions can also jump inside, it's just the Taurox Prime that can exclusively transport Scions


Cheers. It's the name 'Dedicated Transport' that's confusing. Possibly a hang up from an old edition.

Taurox Prime drivers are a bit fussy about who they pick up then; don't want the grunts getting the seats dirty.

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Dont feed gw any big gaird buy in till they make a damn codex thats competitive with crap likedeldar.

Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Dukeofstuff wrote:
Dont feed gw any big gaird buy in till they make a damn codex thats competitive with crap likedeldar.


I've got a ticket for a grand tournament in december and will be taking guard, assuming I get my proxies and conversions past the TO. If there is no codex by then, I may be hitting you up for some of that cheese. Until that point i'll be stockpiling plasma guns.

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






Stockpile that precious melta and plas like it's damned finite.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in pl
Grovelin' Grot Rigger



Poland

Hi all,

as I got my hands on some sweet 3d models of Catachans it would be a shame not to print them and play.
Could you please take a look if this direction is somehow playable or I totally messed up?
I would like to go with infantry over Leman.

Spoiler:
2k pts
Battalion

Hq
3xCompany commander

Troops
6xinfantry squad with plasma

Elites
Astropath
2x 4x melta command squad - inside Valkyrie
Hawker

Fast attach
3x hellhound
2x 3x lascannon scout sentinels with hunter killer missle

Heavy
2x manticore (one with full payload)

Flayer
Valkyrie

Patrol

HQ
Psyker

Troops
2x Infantry squad with plasma

Elites
Platoon commander.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 17:52:59


 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Looks workable so far. I would consider either dropping one Sentinel or arm them with a cheaper weapon to squeez in that third Command Squad you are allowed to use. Another 4 Meltaguns would do more in Anti tank duty than a Lascannon Sentinel.

Also keep in mind that the Command Squads in the Valkyrie are a lot of eggs in one basket. But it can work.
Only my 2 cents though. Lets see what the experts say...

~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in pl
Grovelin' Grot Rigger



Poland

Thanks mate, appreciated.
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






Lost for a fourth time to Necrons. Unable to hold objectives in a meaningful way even with outnumbering opponents army. Final score was 59 to 20, I had a Commissar and Manticor left, that was it. He still had two warrior groups, a plasmaguy and one big gun ghost arc thing. Ended at bottom of 4.

Also, I could have sworn you get VP at the end of your turn.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





That sucks. So with those warrior blobs, one unit's firing has to wipe 20 warriors at once right, or they regen?

Does this do it:
Tank commander, ordering himself to re-roll 1's to hit, gatling cannon with weapon expert -1 ap, 3 heavy flamers, heavy stubber?

The way they have done VP is confusing to me, it's scored all differently depending on what it's for.

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 PaddyMick wrote:
That sucks. So with those warrior blobs, one unit's firing has to wipe 20 warriors at once right, or they regen?

Does this do it:
Tank commander, ordering himself to re-roll 1's to hit, gatling cannon with weapon expert -1 ap, 3 heavy flamers, heavy stubber?

The way they have done VP is confusing to me, it's scored all differently depending on what it's for.


Off the top of my head, that’d kill about 16 - 17 Warriors. With 5 - 6 of them returning. If you took gunnery experts and swapped the heavy stubber for a storm bolter (4 shots at 12 inch, you have heavy flamers so you might as well). That might be enough to push you to 20 Warriors dead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/30 07:59:04


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





ahh right, cheers. Better take that hunter killer missile too, last thing you want is one guy left! plus that would be comedy gold, if your oppo thinks he's tanked it

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in nz
Guardsman with Flashlight



New Zealand

As far as I have seen, Reanimation works a bit like a slightly delayed Feel No Pain, except it stops working once all the unit members are down. I would rather shoot Necrons than having to chisel my way through 2W 2+ save + FNP sanguinary guard... If you can put the whole unit down with one unit, great. But if you can't - culling a few with each unit's shooting puts you closer to that magic number when RP stops working...
   
Made in us
Noble Knight of the Realm






Yea, there is a reason I am seeing why Guard win rates are bad this edition. That and Guard against Necrons have a 30% win chance.

"Don't Feed the Troll" 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Quick question: how do you get 2 x full payload manticores in a list? I've seen it done a couple of times recently.

From what I have read you can only use the Tank Ace strategem once per battle, and a manticore isn't a character, so can't be your warlord.

So as I understand it, you can have one Tank Ace instead of a Warlord trait on a Tank Commander, and one other Tank Ace on a russ or artillery tank using the strategem.

My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Washington State

 PaddyMick wrote:
Quick question: how do you get 2 x full payload manticores in a list? I've seen it done a couple of times recently.

From what I have read you can only use the Tank Ace strategem once per battle, and a manticore isn't a character, so can't be your warlord.

So as I understand it, you can have one Tank Ace instead of a Warlord trait on a Tank Commander, and one other Tank Ace on a russ or artillery tank using the strategem.


You can take a Tank Ace instead of a Warlord Trait. That Tank Ace doesn't have to be your Warlord, your Warlord just doesn't have a trait.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




simply, if you don't take a warlord trait, you can have 2x tank aces
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Got it, thanks chaps, I was in error in thinking one of the tank aces had to be applied to a CHARACTER tank in this case. Good to know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/05 15:56:28


My first and current painting and modeling blog:

Planetary Defence Force with alternative models and converted vehicles 
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge



Canada

What's the best regimental doctrines to run Hydras with?

Cadian for Re-roll ones?

Custom regiment: Juryrigged Repairs & Spotter details for a little extra survivablity & range?

Other?

Imperial Guard - 1000 GSC - 200  
   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





France, region of Paris

Hello.

Speaking specifically for the Hydra, there are very few custom regimental traits (or tank ace traits) that combine with it. If you are not worried about not having a boost to your infantry, you can combine two vehicle traits. I agree with you that jurry rigged repair being cool, but spotter details gives nothing. A 72" range tank does not need extra range at all. However, monster hunter can prove very handy when facing some armies. Hydra providing a lot of dice rolls, there will be many occasions to roll those to wound. This will be golden against Tau riptides, Tyranid flying tyrant, CSM deamon princes, and some other targets. Not a huge boost, not useful very often, but can be nice.

If you plan to mix infantry and vehicles, stick with a classic named regiment. Here is a quick overview. Probably not Cadian, as you are likely to move the Hydra to get line of sight to a suitable target. Don't forget that with properly laid out tables, dangerous foes will seek to hide behind LOS obscuring terrain features. Vostroyan, extra range : useless. Catachan : no bonus for you. Mordian : very specific overwatch boost is crappy. Tallarn : you are probably not wanting to advance a lot with this tank, 12" move ought to be enough, so meh. Armageddon, extra resilience against AP-1 is not bad, but most of the time, weapons firing at you will be AP-3 or AP-4. I would pass. My opinion is that the best for the hydra will be Valhallan. It allows for much better efficiency after taking a single crippling hit of currently common antitank weapons. You would get an extra turn of efficient use of your tank if taking 4-6 damage from a dark lance for example. Or will force your opponent to divert more ressources into finishing a damaged hydra, instead of crippling two.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/08 20:40:57


longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard 
   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight




They don't really need the range with 72" do they?
I had good results with Cadians.

You shouldn't be worried about the one bullet with your name on it, Boldric. You should be worried about the ones labelled "to whom it may concern"-from Blackadder goes Forth!
 
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Depending on what you face, Cadia and Vostroya at least have a nice regimental stratagem. With "overlapping fields of fire" triggered by some other unit, the hydra gets back to 4+ against ground targets. Or the other way around has a pretty good chance to put that one wound on a heavy flyer to trigger it for the rest of the army.

~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 Pyroalchi wrote:
Depending on what you face, Cadia and Vostroya at least have a nice regimental stratagem. With "overlapping fields of fire" triggered by some other unit, the hydra gets back to 4+ against ground targets. Or the other way around has a pretty good chance to put that one wound on a heavy flyer to trigger it for the rest of the army.


This, I would argue a Cadian Hydra is probably the best. Even if it moves, as long as it shoots at a target that is being affected by overlapping fields of fire it's still better off than a regular Hydra. A Cadian Hydra can also benefit from the relic of lost Cadia, so it could still get that reroll of 1 to hit on that turn even if it moved (as well as the reroll 1 to wound).

Even then, Hydra's typically aren't great units. They might be okay if your local meta has a lot of fly units, but that's about it.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





bat702 wrote:
I really love the idea of a Guard-horde, but seriously painting that many guards-men is so beyond torturous to any hobbyist unless you go for the minimum cheesy 3 colors. Also moving that many guardsmen every turn and deploying them etc, is also a bit of a horrible experience.


Guard horde is one of those things you really need to have the stomach for. It can work and be fun but man it's a lot of deployment work and movement if they move forward. My first games of guard were horde as the vehicles didn't get built till later and I ran usually 3 full troop platoons at least back when you could blob them up, sprinkled with commissars.

Send one group of 50 forward, follow it with the 2nd group and if they don't bog the enemy line down or crush them the 3rd group of 50 some odd guys should do it. I miss those days. I actually made the enemy fear massed guard infantry charges.

Won't lie, it feels like you imagine it will but man is it a pain in the butt to do.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 AngryAngel80 wrote:
bat702 wrote:
I really love the idea of a Guard-horde, but seriously painting that many guards-men is so beyond torturous to any hobbyist unless you go for the minimum cheesy 3 colors. Also moving that many guardsmen every turn and deploying them etc, is also a bit of a horrible experience.


Guard horde is one of those things you really need to have the stomach for. It can work and be fun but man it's a lot of deployment work and movement if they move forward. My first games of guard were horde as the vehicles didn't get built till later and I ran usually 3 full troop platoons at least back when you could blob them up, sprinkled with commissars.

Send one group of 50 forward, follow it with the 2nd group and if they don't bog the enemy line down or crush them the 3rd group of 50 some odd guys should do it. I miss those days. I actually made the enemy fear massed guard infantry charges.

Won't lie, it feels like you imagine it will but man is it a pain in the butt to do.


Guard horde was pretty fun in 6th, when priests gave infantry blobs fearless, and primaris psykers could provide rerolls to hit or potentially invisibility. Having both meant you could have some hidden power/force weapons in the blob too.

The start of 8th was fun too. Conscript spam was in, then nerfed into the ground.

Now days? I do think infantry spam is better than combined arms, you have better board control and movement (thanks to Move! Move! Move!). A second brigade of Scions can provide all the heavy firepower you need, with the added benefit of being able to help with secondaries. Still though, it's too time consuming to play and still not very reliable. Infantry squads such at killing.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: