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IanVanCheese wrote:
20 pts is bang on the money. certainly worth considering. Excited to see what else we get, article says "thorough revisions". Nothing will fix our issues, but some stopgaps will be appreciated even if it just adds a bit more variety in what we can bring.

Yeah, just having to reconsider options is refreshing at least. As usual, i would prefer them to provide something unique to the army and be more "Elite", but ultimately i'll take a point reduction.

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
20 pts is bang on the money. certainly worth considering. Excited to see what else we get, article says "thorough revisions". Nothing will fix our issues, but some stopgaps will be appreciated even if it just adds a bit more variety in what we can bring.

Yeah, just having to reconsider options is refreshing at least. As usual, i would prefer them to provide something unique to the army and be more "Elite", but ultimately i'll take a point reduction.

Hopefully Lychguard get another drop to stay in line with them. Praetorians are niche, but 22pt Lychguard is something I'd seriously consider spamming.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
20 pts is bang on the money. certainly worth considering. Excited to see what else we get, article says "thorough revisions". Nothing will fix our issues, but some stopgaps will be appreciated even if it just adds a bit more variety in what we can bring.

Yeah, just having to reconsider options is refreshing at least. As usual, i would prefer them to provide something unique to the army and be more "Elite", but ultimately i'll take a point reduction.

Hopefully Lychguard get another drop to stay in line with them. Praetorians are niche, but 22pt Lychguard is something I'd seriously consider spamming.

How many points is a standard Primaris marine?

sieGermans wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Shaelinith wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:
20 pts is bang on the money. certainly worth considering. Excited to see what else we get, article says "thorough revisions". Nothing will fix our issues, but some stopgaps will be appreciated even if it just adds a bit more variety in what we can bring.

Yeah, just having to reconsider options is refreshing at least. As usual, i would prefer them to provide something unique to the army and be more "Elite", but ultimately i'll take a point reduction.

Hopefully Lychguard get another drop to stay in line with them. Praetorians are niche, but 22pt Lychguard is something I'd seriously consider spamming.

How many points is a standard Primaris marine?

17.

Deceiver down to 180 points. I suspect the Nighbringer and other C'tan will see reductions as well, since the Deceiver is the most usable of them.

Darsath wrote:
Deceiver down to 180 points. I suspect the Nighbringer and other C'tan will see reductions as well, since the Deceiver is the most usable of them.

Yeah just saw that. Nightbringer down near 150 might make him interesting? Hoping the Vault comes back down too.

Praetorians at 20 is pretty darn cheap.

Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

 p5freak wrote:
Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

They don't need a transport or teleporting, they jump everywhere...

I'll grant you the no synergy. They get the funky Strat for themselves and that's literally it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

They don't need a transport or teleporting, they jump everywhere...

I'll grant you the no synergy. They get the funky Strat for themselves and that's literally it.

Alas 10" isn't enough for T1 charge.Especially as no advance+charge option. And if they try to cross the field they face firepower and likely gets vaporized. So 200-220 pts distraction carnifex

I think the bigger issue with Praetorians is that they have no good targets. 1 Damage and 2 Attacks without any synergy is just a terrible rate at this point in 8th.

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

They don't need a transport or teleporting, they jump everywhere...

I'll grant you the no synergy. They get the funky Strat for themselves and that's literally it.

Alas 10" isn't enough for T1 charge.Especially as no advance+charge option. And if they try to cross the field they face firepower and likely gets vaporized. So 200-220 pts distraction carnifex

Honestly, at 20pts a model they're the cheapest wounds versus pts infantry we have access to. Might be worth it just for sitting on flank objectives with, counter charging anything that approaches. They don't need to stay with the main force since no synegies anyway. Anyway yeah they're not amazing by any stretch at 20pts, but still interesting enough too consider.

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

They don't need a transport or teleporting, they jump everywhere...

I'll grant you the no synergy. They get the funky Strat for themselves and that's literally it.

Alas 10" isn't enough for T1 charge.Especially as no advance+charge option. And if they try to cross the field they face firepower and likely gets vaporized. So 200-220 pts distraction carnifex

It's enough for it sometimes and a T2 charge is okay for the price. They're now 10 points per T5 3+ wound. That's not bad for durability outside D2 weapons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Even at 20ppm praets arent very useful. No synergy, they are on their own. No teleport, no transport.

They don't need a transport or teleporting, they jump everywhere...

I'll grant you the no synergy. They get the funky Strat for themselves and that's literally it.

Alas 10" isn't enough for T1 charge.Especially as no advance+charge option. And if they try to cross the field they face firepower and likely gets vaporized. So 200-220 pts distraction carnifex

It's enough for it sometimes and a T2 charge is okay for the price. They're now 10 points per T5 3+ wound. That's not bad for durability outside D2 weapons.

From both a points per wound and points per shot at 12”... it feels awkward that our cheapest (best?) option is a Praetorian over any of our troop choices.

Fun thought. What if Praetorians, the Triarch Stalker, Anrakyr, Szeras and whatnot also get the darn <Dynasty> keyword?

I think that would help us too. Would be a good overhaul to see.

I really want Anrakyr to be closer to 110 points. I'd actually USE him at that point.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That's not bad for durability outside D2 weapons.

Alas d2 weapons are so numerous that my lychguard gets vaporized in an heartbeat unless I'm rolling 4++ hot. And these guys don't have even 6++ let alone 4++...

Still, I like this.

Love the model. Last thing I did in seventh was to get the full Judicator Battalion (?) 2*10 praetorian and the stalker. Only to shelf them for 8th.will definitely take them for a spin.

A turn 2+ onwards harassment unit could certainly fill a function. Wraiths dart a head, charge. Praetorians follow suit, finishing any stragglers the wraiths leave in their tracks.

When is the release date for CA19?

I'm joining an escalation league and I think I'm going to try running my Necrons.

Any thoughts on this as a reasonable 500 point starting list?

Some notes: I have to take my warlord+trait for the rest of the league and there are no named characters allowed. However every game we will be rolling for an upgrade to our warlord so I want to take something that might be able to benefit from extra strength, toughness, attacks, and the like.

My goal with the list was to have a decent number of infantry to benefit from RP, morale immunity (will benefit me more later on), destroyers to be able to punch up a bit if somebody brings vehicles, and a triarch stalker because I love the model.

I debated dropping the stalker and the warriors for a MSU Tesla Immortals squad and a DDA but I'm not sure if I'll need the DDA initially.

I'm also debating taking Sautekh and that warlord trait instead of Nephrekh.


++ Patrol Detachment (Necrons) [35 PL, 3CP, 500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +

Overlord [6 PL, 93pts]: Artefact: Voidreaper, Warlord (Immortal Pride), Warscythe

+ Troops +

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 132pts]: 12x Necron Warrior

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Heat Ray

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts]
. 3x Destroyer: 3x Gauss Cannon

++ Total: [35 PL, 3CP, 500pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Surtr wrote:
When is the release date for CA19?

Preorder this saturday, release week later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slaul wrote:
I debated dropping the stalker and the warriors for a MSU Tesla Immortals squad and a DDA but I'm not sure if I'll need the DDA initially.

I love the DDA. In smaller game sure the big gun might not get much AT role but pay attention to the gaus flayers. Actually even in bigger games I like using DDA as floating assault wagon floating around throwing 20 S4 -1 shots and then the main gun. Surprisingly useful.

Too bad there's no ark with just gauss flayers and nothing special. Ghost ark without repair function and cheaper!

IMO the stalker is too much at this level though. Would take more bodies. And 12 warriors is annoyingly soft target even at 500 pts.

If you're gonna run around with the DDA go with Sautekh I guess.

tneva82 wrote:

Surtr wrote:
When is the release date for CA19?

Preorder this saturday, release week later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slaul wrote:
I debated dropping the stalker and the warriors for a MSU Tesla Immortals squad and a DDA but I'm not sure if I'll need the DDA initially.

I love the DDA. In smaller game sure the big gun might not get much AT role but pay attention to the gaus flayers. Actually even in bigger games I like using DDA as floating assault wagon floating around throwing 20 S4 -1 shots and then the main gun. Surprisingly useful.

Too bad there's no ark with just gauss flayers and nothing special. Ghost ark without repair function and cheaper!

IMO the stalker is too much at this level though. Would take more bodies. And 12 warriors is annoyingly soft target even at 500 pts.

Would it be worth dropping the stalker and the destroyers for a DDA and maxing the warriors to 20?

Or maybe switch to Sautekh, drop the warriors for a 10 man squad of tesla immortals, drop the stalker, drop the destroyers, and add a DDA and 3 tomb blades with tesla.

Slaul wrote:
Or maybe switch to Sautekh, drop the warriors for a 10 man squad of tesla immortals, drop the stalker, drop the destroyers, and add a DDA and 3 tomb blades with tesla.

Apart from sautekh(I'm nephrek all the way. Ability to quarantee T1 shooting most of the time with immortals(6" advance makes it easier even vs way back deployments) and general ability to reach various places is so handy for my playstyle) that's pretty much the list I went with in 500 pts round for our slow grow league. 10 tesla guys, overlord, dda, 3 tomb blades. Don't recall did I have cryptek. Probably not.

Won vs death korps of krieg. In large due to that dda floating around vaporizing infantry left and right.

Could the Praetorian price drop be a hint of more Dynasty-relevant support (from which Triarch units won’t benefit—hence needing a buff)?

sieGermans wrote:
Could the Praetorian price drop be a hint of more Dynasty-relevant support (from which Triarch units won’t benefit—hence needing a buff)?

I think you're reading too much into it. GW likely just saw that literally nobody is running them.

What else is on people's wishlists (pts drops only since it's Chapter Approved)? Mine are...

Monolith down to 220 pts (100 pt drop seems huge, but I still don't think it'd be an auto-include. Just aggressively priced. It's still just a slightly tougher Leman Russ with some tricks that never work)
Flayed Ones down to 10 pts (7pt drop. In line with Kill Team. Again, would just make them viable, not amazing).
Ghost Arks down to 125 pts (20 pt drop. For only 15pts more you can get a DDA. It's ludicrous, especially when it can only carry warriors)
Lychguard down to 22 pts (In line with Praetorians. Would actually make them interesting, especially as sniper protection).
Tesseract Vault back to 496 (it should never have been nerfed. It wasn't overpowered, it was just the only good unit we had at the time).

Loads more, but those are the obvious ones.

sieGermans wrote:
Could the Praetorian price drop be a hint of more Dynasty-relevant support (from which Triarch units won’t benefit—hence needing a buff)?

Dunno, if we get the aeldari treatment, aka build your dynasty, i don't think it will change much. Depends on the traits themselves really, the Stealthy & Master Artisan would be nuts, but when you see the Craftworld, or worse, Kabal ones, it's not as much a game changer.
Losing our Dynastry traits are not that hard but but Sautekh is quite good enough to be the glue that hold, for me, a lot together (doomscythes, methodical destruction, CP regen, imothek).

If we get the CSM treatment, it would be better, i really like what they done for some of the legions. I understands why chaos players still feels like worse SM (no trait on vehicules, ...), but the quality of the warlord traits/relics/stratagems was pretty good, and far more interesting than what they done in PA1 imho.

I'm very curious of what Tyrannids will get. They seems to have a 'build your hive fleets', but also have some stratagems, relics, and a new mechanic (Adaptive Physiology, per the warhammer community article). Maybe we will see that kind of stuff.

I still think that for the praetorians, and for all faction-trait-less units across factions, GW has not clue. They designed a 8th edition based on combos, and these units don't mesh in this system. So they drop the point until stats alone will be enough to justify them.

I think the units most likely to see changes would be:
Annihilation Barge
Warriors
Flayed Ones
Lord
Monolith
Night Scythe
Praetorians (confirmed)
C'tan Shards (Deceiver is confirmed, so it's likely that all will)

I'm sorry but I don't understand why Crypteks are over 50 pts (SoL included)? Their stat line is abysmal for a faction known for their toughness. I would like to see Wraiths down 6pts, Lord down 10 pts, TB's down 3-4 points, Lychguard down 6 pts, Warriors down 1-2 pts, FO's down 5 pts, Spyders down 10 pts, Transcendent C'tan down 20 pts, Anrakyr 20-40 pts and Crypteks down 40 pts. Obviously, this wont fix our problems but then there's PA that could give us a more definitive boost.

Darsath wrote:
I think the units most likely to see changes would be:
Annihilation Barge
Warriors
Flayed Ones
Lord
Monolith
Night Scythe
Praetorians (confirmed)
C'tan Shards (Deceiver is confirmed, so it's likely that all will)

I'd certainly add Cryptek, Overlords, Canoptek Spider and perhaps Heavy Destroyers to that too

torblind wrote:
Did you miss that Flayed Ones dropped from 4 to 3 attacks ages ago?

As explained, there's two ways to add to their attacks. Both Anrakyr (Lord of the Pyrrhian Legions) and Big Z (Transient Madness) can add to attacks. Both. I pointed out that I wasn't doing it that way but that meant up to 5 attacks a guy.

And now you're caught up, so Slayer-Fan can stop being a jerk. Or not.