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There is a HUGE difference between participating in a ritual and providing a customary service. By baking a wedding cake, you are not participating in a ritual.

Wo.

That pizza joint's GoFund me is over 175K now...
http://www.gofundme.com/MemoriesPizza

What is it about being complete donkey-caves that attracts so many people?

 skyth wrote:
There is a HUGE difference between participating in a ritual and providing a customary service. By baking a wedding cake, you are not participating in a ritual.

Says you...

Other may differ in that opinion.

So now what? How would you like this resolved?

 skyth wrote:
By baking a wedding cake, you are not participating in a ritual.

A court may find that to be true -- in which case, there is no imposition upon religious liberty and the discrimination would be illegal. The Indiana RFRA would not change that (presuming Indiana eventually passes non-discrimination laws covering sexual orientation).

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What is it about being complete donkey-caves that attracts so many people?

Eh... it's sympathy for being bullied.

 whembly wrote:

 skyth wrote:
There is a HUGE difference between participating in a ritual and providing a customary service. By baking a wedding cake, you are not participating in a ritual.

Says you...

Other may differ in that opinion.

So now what? How would you like this resolved?

I can resolve it. Send me the cake.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What is it about being complete donkey-caves that attracts so many people?

The Memories Pizza folks may not be articulate or even photogenic but I don't see how they can be called donkey-caves. That's just hateful.

Unless you are acting as a religious officiant, the argumement that MY religion says that YOU are not allowed to do something is never a valid reason for a busoness to deny service.

The pizza place wasn't even asked to do anything as far as I know, they just proffered it up without provocation, which seems a bit like trolling.

1. Make baseless statement known to anger a small segment of internet.
2. Get GoFundMe money from other small segment of idiots on internet
3. Profit?

Machu I'd argue that they are just pulling a stunt. To prove otherwise they are going to have to show proof someone, anyone has ever ordered pizzas for a gay wedding, or any wedding.

 whembly wrote:
Eh... it's sympathy for being bullied.

Somehow, Christians can sympathize when people revile, persecute, and say all manner of evil against you falsely. Go figure.

 skyth wrote:
Unless you are acting as a religious officiant, the argumement that MY religion says that YOU are not allowed to do something is never a valid reason for a busoness to deny service.

Good thing the actual argument is MY religion prevents ME from doing something.

Nah... it was a local reporter trawling for something:
http://www.abc57.com/story/28681598/rfra-first-business-to-publicly-deny-same-sex-service


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Eh... it's sympathy for being bullied.

Somehow, Christians can sympathize when people revile, persecute, and say all manner of evil against you falsely. Go figure.

Huh... tolerance.

 Manchu wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What is it about being complete donkey-caves that attracts so many people?

The Memories Pizza folks may not be articulate or even photogenic but I don't see how they can be called donkey-caves. That's just hateful.

So bigots aren't donkey-caves? News to me.

 Frazzled wrote:
Machu I'd argue that they are just pulling a stunt. To prove otherwise they are going to have to show proof someone, anyone has ever ordered pizzas for a gay wedding, or any wedding.

I call BS. A reporter asked these folks if they would refuse to cater a gay wedding. They answered that they would. In response, they received massive amounts of threats, insults, and other harassment.

 Ahtman wrote:
The pizza place wasn't even asked to do anything as far as I know, they just proffered it up without provocation, which seems a bit like trolling.

1. Make baseless statement known to anger a small segment of internet.
2. Get GoFundMe money from other small segment of idiots on internet
3. Profit?

Couldn't agree more.

They be donkey-caves.

 skyth wrote:
There is a HUGE difference between participating in a ritual and providing a customary service. By baking a wedding cake, you are not participating in a ritual.

Likewise not providing a cake has absolutely no impact on the ability of the couple in question to get married. No one is harmed or prevented from doing what they want when a baker/florist/photographer/caterer refuses to provide services for a wedding. The wedding can still take place it is not prohibited or inhibited in any meaningful or burdensome way. My wedding cake was made by the bakery section in Walmart, it was tasty, the wedding wasn't adversely affected because no bakery was involved.

 Manchu wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Eh... it's sympathy for being bullied.

Somehow, Christians can sympathize when people revile, persecute, and say all manner of evil against you falsely. Go figure.

 skyth wrote:
Unless you are acting as a religious officiant, the argumement that MY religion says that YOU are not allowed to do something is never a valid reason for a busoness to deny service.

Good thing the actual argument is MY religion prevents ME from doing something.

No it wasn't. That would be a valid argument if the argumemt was that my religion doesn't allow me to bake cakes. As soon as my ability to bake cakes depends on you following my religion, the argument fails.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
So bigots aren't donkey-caves? News to me.

As far as I can tell, they believe homosexual acts are sinful and therefore reasonably refuse to participate in a public celebration of homosexual relationships. I don't think that makes them bigots. But I do think we have a culture of kneejerk invective-hurling.

 skyth wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Eh... it's sympathy for being bullied.

Somehow, Christians can sympathize when people revile, persecute, and say all manner of evil against you falsely. Go figure.

 skyth wrote:
Unless you are acting as a religious officiant, the argumement that MY religion says that YOU are not allowed to do something is never a valid reason for a busoness to deny service.

Good thing the actual argument is MY religion prevents ME from doing something.

No it wasn't. That would be a valid argument if the argumemt was that my religion doesn't allow me to bake cakes. As soon as my ability to bake cakes depends on you following my religion, the argument fails.

You keep pushing a perception that religion is like a hobby, skill, or day-event and it's not.

That's where your arguments fails.

 skyth wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Good thing the actual argument is MY religion prevents ME from doing something.

No it wasn't. That would be a valid argument if the argumemt was that my religion doesn't allow me to bake cakes. As soon as my ability to bake cakes depends on you following my religion, the argument fails.

The hypothetical argument is, my religion does not allow me to participate in homosexual marriages. As Stonebeard and Prestor Jon already explained to you, this is not the same as forcing someone else not to get married.

Then you are free not to be in the business of making cakes. As soon as you open a business you are expectef to serve the public regardless if they follow your religion.

 skyth wrote:
Then you are free not to be in the business of making cakes.

According to ... ?

 Manchu wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
So bigots aren't donkey-caves? News to me.

As far as I can tell, they believe homosexual acts are sinful and therefore reasonably refuse to participate in a public celebration of homosexual relationships. I don't think that makes them bigots. But I do think have a culture of kneejerk invective-hurling.

Yet don't they also serve people who do other sinful things? Why focus on this one sin and ignore any other?

Also it kept trying to spell sinful and sinflu, which is a virus that attacks the soul.

And again...baking a cake is not participating in a wedding.

 Ahtman wrote:
Yet don't they also serve people who do other sinful things? Why focus on this one sin and ignore any other?

Which other sin that you have in mind involves a public ritual of celebration and approval by the gathered community?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
What is it about being complete donkey-caves that attracts so many people?

Do you mean the people who said they would not make pizzas for a gay wedding, or the people making threats/compromising their social media?

 skyth wrote:
And again...baking a cake is not participating in a wedding.

And again:

 Manchu wrote:
A court may find that to be true -- in which case, there is no imposition upon religious liberty and the discrimination would be illegal. The Indiana RFRA would not change that (presuming Indiana eventually passes non-discrimination laws covering sexual orientation).

 Manchu wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Machu I'd argue that they are just pulling a stunt. To prove otherwise they are going to have to show proof someone, anyone has ever ordered pizzas for a gay wedding, or any wedding.

I call BS. A reporter asked these folks if they would refuse to cater a gay wedding. They answered that they would. In response, they received massive amounts of threats, insults, and other harassment.

Why was the reporter there in the first place? I will admit I could be wrong.

Anyone have pizza at their wedding?

 Manchu wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
So bigots aren't donkey-caves? News to me.

As far as I can tell, they believe homosexual acts are sinful and therefore reasonably refuse to participate in a public celebration of homosexual relationships. I don't think that makes them bigots. But I do think we have a culture of kneejerk invective-hurling.

Actually it does make them bigots. Same as if they believed mixed race marriages are wrong.