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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, they did that in the last Assault Marine box. It's nothing new. What is new is the price. +AUD$15 for no fething reason.

It seems GW has abandoned their "Let's increase the price on everything to make everyone the same as Australia!" in favour of "Feth it! Just raise the price on everything!".

$70 for 5 models? That's more than the Vanguard box!!! Give me a God-damned break...

Did somebody from GW get bitten by one of the bazillion poisonous things in Australia or something? They have gone from uncompetitive to full-on, seething hatred of you guys. A nasty spider bite on the privates seems the only rational explanation.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I don't remember getting 10 full bodies in the last assault marine box.

 Talys wrote:
Yeah, me either.

That's great guys, but they did. Ehsteve even posted a picture of what came in the Assault Marine box. 10 full torsos. So y'all just gonna have'ta use your extensive powers of cognitive dissonance to find another reason why this new and improved price is justified.

I was wrong about the old sprues; I hadn't seen it on the sprue since that box came out (what year was that? I can't even recall), and like Leth, I hadn't seen Estevez's pic. The oldest box I remember with extra torso parts (upper or lower) was command/devastation's shared sprue with the kneeling legs for the missile launcher.

This doesn't change that the new box is pretty decent value for a new, non-troop 5 man unit. And the extra upper torsos are still a bonus. It certainly isn't the norm, and they are useful.

Why anyone would buy the new ASM over the vanguard box is beyond my understanding.. Less cool models for the same price? Great deal!

Da Butcha wrote:
Did somebody from GW get bitten by one of the bazillion poisonous things in Australia or something? They have gone from uncompetitive to full-on, seething hatred of you guys. A nasty spider bite on the privates seems the only rational explanation.

You know, it's weird. Australia's dollar is about the same as Canada's (within 5%?). So, why is the price $50 vs $70?

Are taxes included in advertised prices in Australia?

Canada's prices and currency relative to USD seem about right.

AUD prices include all taxes.

It is pretty bad, but that is what resellers are for

 Kirasu wrote:
Why anyone would buy the new ASM over the vanguard box is beyond my understanding.. Less cool models for the same price? Great deal!

Ok well tell me if I'm wrong, since I got the upper torso one wrong, and my vanguard box has been desired for a while but....

- IIRC vanguard models only comes with jump packs, so maybe you want drop pod guys? Yeah, you can use tac parts.
- The new box comes with 2 part legs and scenic bases, which is way cool
- Not that many pistol parts, maybe the new ASM box comes with 5 grav pistols or something...
- Extra upper torsos?

 Talys wrote:
You know, it's weird. Australia's dollar is about the same as Canada's (within 5%?). So, why is the price $50 vs $70?.

They were starting to more or less equalise prices (by leaving ours where they were and raising everyone elses' with each new release) for a while there, so this is somewhat of a throwback to old ways.

I can only assume that now that they have all of their new trade terms in place, they think that they've successfully returned us to the staus quo from the early '90s, where Australian customers simply had no real choice but to pay whatever the asking price was.



That, or they've given up completely and are now just using GW Oz as a tax write-off.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So y'all just gonna have'ta use your extensive powers of cognitive dissonance to find another reason why this new and improved price is justified.

There is a difference between believing that a price increase is justified, and believing that it is consistent and expected.

That said, compared to the old kit, it comes with an eviscerator, a thunder hammer, a flamer, 5 good sized basing bits, and an extra plasma pistol over what we had before. Probably fewer pouches/grenades, and no idea yet if there is a power fist and/or power axe included.

Let's trawl the old facts and figures.

What I do know is that back in 2006 a set of Assault Marines would set you back $25USD/£15GBP as per the catalogues.

They're now $33USD/£20.50GBP

So the RRP of the kit at inflation of 3% (a sensible figure) a year over the life of the kit (created in 2004 per the sprue stamp but not released until 2005 by memory, no price increase between 2005 and 2006. should bring the current kit value to $33.59USD/£20.16GBP.

So as far as I'm aware, the assault marine kit in its current form is at a fair price when weighed against the release cost.

Now I believe there were only about 3 price rises on the kit over that period, but they tended to be leaps and bounds (12.5%+) but only over the last 5-6 years (2010, 2012 and 2013 by memory) have they really become apparent.

That's assuming costs are constant.

They will now go to $41USD/£25GBP, keep in mind this is a new kit.

That's about 7 years ahead of the trend at inflation or just a straight 24% increase. Now it is a new kit with its own outlays (mold, design etc) but those costs were already built into the original assault marine kit and the money for 'research new titles' as stated in the Ian Livingstone editorial back in 1980 (WD issue #17). Have expenses really risen 24% above inflation in that time? That's for consumers to decide.

Just take into account, generally speaking you would have been just impressed with the quality of assault marine kit then as you would be now (having moved them from the ancient space marine kit to the modern version). Adjust for expectations, it's still a 24% rise for no real reason or gain.

 insaniak wrote:

 Talys wrote:
You know, it's weird. Australia's dollar is about the same as Canada's (within 5%?). So, why is the price $50 vs $70?.

They were starting to more or less equalise prices (by leaving ours where they were and raising everyone elses' with each new release) for a while there, so this is somewhat of a throwback to old ways.

I can only assume that now that they have all of their new trade terms in place, they think that they've successfully returned us to the staus quo from the early '90s, where Australian customers simply had no real choice but to pay whatever the asking price was.



That, or they've given up completely and are now just using GW Oz as a tax write-off.

I think the former is more likely. Now that they're the only game in town (pun intended), they're predicting an increase in sales with a healthy price rise tacked on.

 Ehsteve wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So y'all just gonna have'ta use your extensive powers of cognitive dissonance to find another reason why this new and improved price is justified.

There is a difference between believing that a price increase is justified, and believing that it is consistent and expected.

That said, compared to the old kit, it comes with an eviscerator, a thunder hammer, a flamer, 5 good sized basing bits, and an extra plasma pistol over what we had before. Probably fewer pouches/grenades, and no idea yet if there is a power fist and/or power axe included.

Let's trawl the old facts and figures.

What I do know is that back in 2006 a set of Assault Marines would set you back $25USD/£15GBP as per the catalogues.

They're now $33USD/£20.50GBP

So the RRP of the kit at inflation of 3% (a sensible figure) a year over the life of the kit (created in 2004 per the sprue stamp but not released until 2005 by memory, no price increase between 2005 and 2006. should bring the current kit value to $33.59USD/£20.16GBP.

So as far as I'm aware, the assault marine kit in its current form is at a fair price when weighed against the release cost.

Now I believe there were only about 3 price rises on the kit over that period, but they tended to be leaps and bounds (12.5%+) but only over the last 5-6 years (2010, 2012 and 2013 by memory) have they really become apparent.

That's assuming costs are constant.

They will now go to $41USD/£25GBP, keep in mind this is a new kit.

That's about 7 years ahead of the trend at inflation or just a straight 24% increase. Now it is a new kit with its own outlays (mold, design etc) but those costs were already built into the original assault marine kit and the money for 'research new titles' as stated in the Ian Livingstone editorial back in 1980 (WD issue #17). Have expenses really risen 24% above inflation in that time? That's for consumers to decide.

Just take into account, generally speaking you would have been just impressed with the quality of assault marine kit then as you would be now (having moved them from the ancient space marine kit to the modern version). Adjust for expectations, it's still a 24% rise for no real reason or gain.

Average inflation per year hasn't been 3% for basically a decade now and especially not since the economic collapse. According to US inflation, our prices should have risen 17% since 2006 so that 25$ box of assault marines should cost approx. 27$. IE GW price increases based on inflation are fairly absurd.

 Kirasu wrote:

 Ehsteve wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So y'all just gonna have'ta use your extensive powers of cognitive dissonance to find another reason why this new and improved price is justified.

There is a difference between believing that a price increase is justified, and believing that it is consistent and expected.

That said, compared to the old kit, it comes with an eviscerator, a thunder hammer, a flamer, 5 good sized basing bits, and an extra plasma pistol over what we had before. Probably fewer pouches/grenades, and no idea yet if there is a power fist and/or power axe included.

Let's trawl the old facts and figures.

What I do know is that back in 2006 a set of Assault Marines would set you back $25USD/£15GBP as per the catalogues.

They're now $33USD/£20.50GBP

So the RRP of the kit at inflation of 3% (a sensible figure) a year over the life of the kit (created in 2004 per the sprue stamp but not released until 2005 by memory, no price increase between 2005 and 2006. should bring the current kit value to $33.59USD/£20.16GBP.

So as far as I'm aware, the assault marine kit in its current form is at a fair price when weighed against the release cost.

Now I believe there were only about 3 price rises on the kit over that period, but they tended to be leaps and bounds (12.5%+) but only over the last 5-6 years (2010, 2012 and 2013 by memory) have they really become apparent.

That's assuming costs are constant.

They will now go to $41USD/£25GBP, keep in mind this is a new kit.

That's about 7 years ahead of the trend at inflation or just a straight 24% increase. Now it is a new kit with its own outlays (mold, design etc) but those costs were already built into the original assault marine kit and the money for 'research new titles' as stated in the Ian Livingstone editorial back in 1980 (WD issue #17). Have expenses really risen 24% above inflation in that time? That's for consumers to decide.

Just take into account, generally speaking you would have been just impressed with the quality of assault marine kit then as you would be now (having moved them from the ancient space marine kit to the modern version). Adjust for expectations, it's still a 24% rise for no real reason or gain.

Average inflation per year hasn't been 3% for basically a decade now and especially not since the economic collapse. According to US inflation, our prices should have risen 17% since 2006 so that 25$ box of assault marines should cost approx. 27$. IE GW price increases based on inflation are fairly absurd.

I'm getting 21.1% which would bring it to $30.29 (so a 10% discrepancy), I'm pretty sure the UK inflation is bang on 3% average over the period.

So that would bring it to 35%(USD)/25%(GBP) for the new kit.

 Kirasu wrote:

Average inflation per year hasn't been 3% for basically a decade now and especially not since the economic collapse. According to US inflation, our prices should have risen 17% since 2006 so that 25$ box of assault marines should cost approx. 27$. IE GW price increases based on inflation are fairly absurd.

You are actually both right and wrong. The CPI rate of inflation in the US has been around 17% since 2006, yes. But this measures food, housing, apparel, and many things that are necessities, in addition to recreational goods and services. I think the average in the UK recently has been something really low like 1.2% per year (ever since the recessionary times).

The LUXURY rate of inflation has been much, much higher. I recall reading a WSJ article about a year ago to that effect, so looked it up:

http://www.thewire.com/business/2014/03/luxury-good-inflation-making-things-really-hard-rich-people/358754/

The inflation rate of luxury goods have grown anywhere from 7% - 11% per year. Now, obviously, some goods are highly price inelastic; to take an extreme example, if someone wants a Chanel bag, whether it's $3,000 or $6,000, they will probably find a way to buy it, and even the $25,000+ ones will sell. To take the extreme example to an extreme, I'm sure if Chanel put out a $100,000 handbag with a small, limited run, it would sell out almost immediately. Just as someone will buy that Warlord Titan for more than some people make in a month in salary. Jewelry, not so much, because it's more commoditized and there are more alternatives.

A better comparable is video games. Now, I don't have a number for you, but the price of video games + DLCs now, compared to video games + expansions of yesteryears is something pretty scary.

A reasonable person would conclude that GW considers its product a luxury good not geared towards people hit hardest by the recession; but rather a luxury/entertainment good for a niche market that to which at least a segment of its fans are fine with price increases that follow other entertainment spending (books, games, movies). Note that I'm not asserting that it's true, just that I hypothesize that this is GW's thinking and pricing strategy.

Back to the ASM -- it's not going to win GW any friends on price. But, in USD, Fire Dragons are $41, Ruststalkers are $46, Vanguard are $40, Skyclaws are $37... so I mean... whatever, they are in the right price range for GW product. If you find GW product expensive, this won't change your mind, and if you find GW product affordable, this won't change your mind either.

As to the specific kit, it is probably 10 years since I bought an ASM kit. I would much rather spend $42 USD on the new, useful ASM it, than $33 on the old, crappy ASM kit. Well, obviously, since there has been zero chance I'd buy more of the old ASMs for a long time

 Zewrath wrote:
This just goes to prove their horrible perception of their customer base. Making upgrade sprues for 3 of the most overdecorated chapters in the Imperium of Man, neither of which belong in the C:SM book, is not only absurdly redundant (considering the sheer amount of bits available for the respective chapters); it's also stupid and insulting beyond belief.

What's that? You wanted chapters other than Matt Ward's wet fantasy Smurfs to get attention and actual recognition? Well feth that; here's some ULTRAMARINES, lead by your chapter masters spiritual liege!
Also, we're going to rerelease 2 units, both of which are terrible units and rarely, if ever, gets off the shelf from which they collect dust from and raise the price a bit more for good measure.

Sorry for the rant but I was interested to see if the C:SM release could make an actual interesting codex and not just centurion/smashfucker star, sprinkled with even more bikes and grav weapons. A fools hope, of course, and now that I see that they've gone with, yet another, clueless head-in-a-bucket-throw-dart-in-random-direction-approach for their release, my excitement just plummeted.

This must be one of the most bitter posts I've ever seen... All this over a couple of upgrade sprues? This is why GW don't do social media.

 Talys wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

Average inflation per year hasn't been 3% for basically a decade now and especially not since the economic collapse. According to US inflation, our prices should have risen 17% since 2006 so that 25$ box of assault marines should cost approx. 27$. IE GW price increases based on inflation are fairly absurd.

You are actually both right and wrong. The CPI rate of inflation in the US has been around 17% since 2006, yes. But this measures food, housing, apparel, and many things that are necessities, in addition to recreational goods and services. I think the average in the UK recently has been something really low like 1.2% per year (ever since the recessionary times).

The LUXURY rate of inflation has been much, much higher. I recall reading a WSJ article about a year ago to that effect, so looked it up:

http://www.thewire.com/business/2014/03/luxury-good-inflation-making-things-really-hard-rich-people/358754/

The inflation rate of luxury goods have grown anywhere from 7% - 11% per year. Now, obviously, some goods are highly price inelastic; to take an extreme example, if someone wants a Chanel bag, whether it's $3,000 or $6,000, they will probably find a way to buy it, and even the $25,000+ ones will sell. To take the extreme example to an extreme, I'm sure if Chanel put out a $100,000 handbag with a small, limited run, it would sell out almost immediately. Just as someone will buy that Warlord Titan for more than some people make in a month in salary. Jewelry, not so much, because it's more commoditized and there are more alternatives.

A better comparable is video games. Now, I don't have a number for you, but the price of video games + DLCs now, compared to video games + expansions of yesteryears is something pretty scary.

A reasonable person would conclude that GW considers its product a luxury good not geared towards people hit hardest by the recession; but rather a luxury/entertainment good for a niche market that to which at least a segment of its fans are fine with price increases that follow other entertainment spending (books, games, movies). Note that I'm not asserting that it's true, just that I hypothesize that this is GW's thinking and pricing strategy.

Back to the ASM -- it's not going to win GW any friends on price. But, in USD, Fire Dragons are $41, Ruststalkers are $46, Vanguard are $40, Skyclaws are $37... so I mean... whatever, they are in the right price range for GW product. If you find GW product expensive, this won't change your mind, and if you find GW product affordable, this won't change your mind either.

As to the specific kit, it is probably 10 years since I bought an ASM kit. I would much rather spend $42 USD on the new, useful ASM it, than $33 on the old, crappy ASM kit. Well, obviously, since there has been zero chance I'd buy more of the old ASMs for a long time

You're talking about the subjective value of luxury goods (mainly driven by consumer preference), whereas I'm talking about the straight value of money changing its value over time as it is introduced or removed from the economy.

So while you may be willing to say that your personal value of the product in question (depending on your preference) can tollerate that rise, that's one thing, I'm just talking about you throwing the same money at the same thing and for some reason getting less, or in this case, having to shill out an extra 24%-35% for what amounts to the same thing.

So the question is: given that the space marine assault squad released in 2005 was of comparible quality in relation to the market as it is now, is that rise in value wholly justified? I don't think so. I believe that to the average player, they would have been just as hyped to see these redone with more detail as much as the last set, and as far as I recall, there was no change in price between the pre and post 2005 set.

Thing is, those bits packs are useful for those nit wanting Forgeworld or the majority of hobbyists that don't use bits sites. I have no evidence the majority don't use them but those that do exist seem to be very small operations that rely in buying rare or soon to be OOP stuff and breaking them down , and/or selling via Facebook without mentioning they are actual companies.

Same with assault marines; there are people that play for fun whose idea of fun is not tournament play. Myself and friends generally have armies that are models we like, not what is ""FTW" .

2:1 scouts ratio would be daft, fluff wise there are 100 scouts maximum to 900+ marines. These guys are supposed to be the future of the chapter, not cannon fodder. Whilst GW often ignores it's own fluff I think even they'd balk at that one.

My main issue with this release is the new codex , the sheer cost of GW rules set is becoming their biggest barrier to entry than nearly every other game out there. Getting new players is increasingly hard because they are looking at £70+ just to get the rules in some form and then a codex. Isucks for anyone not wanting to play DA or CSM.

Mymearan wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
This just goes to prove their horrible perception of their customer base. Making upgrade sprues for 3 of the most overdecorated chapters in the Imperium of Man, neither of which belong in the C:SM book, is not only absurdly redundant (considering the sheer amount of bits available for the respective chapters); it's also stupid and insulting beyond belief.

What's that? You wanted chapters other than Matt Ward's wet fantasy Smurfs to get attention and actual recognition? Well feth that; here's some ULTRAMARINES, lead by your chapter masters spiritual liege!
Also, we're going to rerelease 2 units, both of which are terrible units and rarely, if ever, gets off the shelf from which they collect dust from and raise the price a bit more for good measure.

Sorry for the rant but I was interested to see if the C:SM release could make an actual interesting codex and not just centurion/smashfucker star, sprinkled with even more bikes and grav weapons. A fools hope, of course, and now that I see that they've gone with, yet another, clueless head-in-a-bucket-throw-dart-in-random-direction-approach for their release, my excitement just plummeted.

This must be one of the most bitter posts I've ever seen... All this over a couple of upgrade sprues? This is why GW don't do social media.

It's almost like perfection in whine form!
You have the complaint about the aesthetics, choice of releases, diversity of marine books, and accusations that GW is intentionaly slightin the poster all in one line.
Next, you have the old run into the ground line about Mat Ward and the Ultramarines, involving a codex from two editions ago and a writer who has not worked for the company in over a year. And complaints about the use of the kits in question and pricing.
Finally, you have a false apology, complaints about tournament builds, and assumptions that the new codex is a rules failure having no information whatsoever about the new rules.

This is how it is done!

I don't necessarily agree with the kits they chose to update (Assault Marines needed it, but Devastators were in pretty good shape) and make uprade sprues for (Yes, BA and SW ones can make special characters in plastic if you like, but it would have been nice to see other chapters who don't have the same sort of attention (or in the RG case not even decals) get a single sprue.

Pricing is pricing. GW charges more than we'd like. The Assault marine kit looks pretty good, and is consistent in quality with the newer marine kits. Upgrade sprues have some good and useful parts, and are pretty good value as far as contents- hopefully they are a precedent, not a one time thing for only a few chapters. Whining about rules though, can we at least wait until we get some sort of rules rumors first, for once?

Lets not let these new Marines distract us from the real problem facing 40K:

Codex Craftworlds.

:p

 Ehsteve wrote:
So while you may be willing to say that your personal value of the product in question (depending on your preference) can tollerate that rise, that's one thing...

Haven't you been paying attention? That's pretty much Talys' MO: "It's fine by me, therefore it should be fine for everyone!".

It's one thing to have a White Knight who defends every little thing GW does. It's another who just assumes that Everything is Fine/Nothing is Broken.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, they did that in the last Assault Marine box. It's nothing new. What is new is the price. +AUD$15 for no fething reason.

It seems GW has abandoned their "Let's increase the price on everything to make everyone the same as Australia!" in favour of "Feth it! Just raise the price on everything!".

$70 for 5 models? That's more than the Vanguard box!!! Give me a God-damned break...

Wow. Talk about a kick to the nuts there! Crazy.

 Ehsteve wrote:

You're talking about the subjective value of luxury goods (mainly driven by consumer preference), whereas I'm talking about the straight value of money changing its value over time as it is introduced or removed from the economy.

So while you may be willing to say that your personal value of the product in question (depending on your preference) can tollerate that rise, that's one thing, I'm just talking about you throwing the same money at the same thing and for some reason getting less, or in this case, having to shill out an extra 24%-35% for what amounts to the same thing.

So the question is: given that the space marine assault squad released in 2005 was of comparible quality in relation to the market as it is now, is that rise in value wholly justified? I don't think so. I believe that to the average player, they would have been just as hyped to see these redone with more detail as much as the last set, and as far as I recall, there was no change in price between the pre and post 2005 set.

Well, I was actually categorizing GW products as luxury goods (I think they are), which "outperform" the CPI that we judge inflation by. Especially in recent years, luxury goods have shot up in price in comparison to the buying power of average people, meaning that average wage earners can buy fewer video games, go to less movies, eat less junk food at those theatres, and buy less miniatures than they could in 2005.

But you're right; that part is academic, and interesting only from a dispassionate, observational point of view, which obviously we're not in, or we wouldn't be on this forum

What I meant by the ASM being worth more is that I just look at it from a different perspective. Without any consideration of the price in 2005, because that's also academic, the old kit was USD$33. The new kit is USD $42. Depending on how you look at it, that's a difference of $9, which is not very much money, or 21%, which is a very large percentage. The latter is a better way to look the price in general, because it's reflective of the direction of prices in general, and you're not just buying 1 kit.

TLDR: Yes, big price hike.

Is it worth it?

Well, here's the thing, put the two kits side by side in a store, the old one for $33, the new one for $42. I guarantee you fifty of the new kit will sell, and the old kit will still be sitting there on the shelf. Now, practically, most stores will have the old kit for $25 (15% discount) or less. Come Christmas or Boxing day, the smart store will discount those to 50%, dropping it to $16 or so. There is a pretty good chance that even then, it won't sell! On the same day, the store may discount the new kit to 25%, or $32.

So, on Boxing Day, the new kit will probably cost TWICE as much as the old kit. Yet, the new ASM kits will be gone, bought by the first people to walk through the door, while the old kits will gather dust, next to the old ravenwing bikes and the old windriders.

My point -- not a whole lot of people in the whole world want the old Assault Marine box at even it's 2005 price. It's old and dingy. So the price jump of 20% is really irrelevant, because the new kit is something that *some* people want. They might represent the same unit in-game, but they are totally different products on the shelf.

Just like the old Windriders, marked down to 50% of MSRP at one of my FLGS just a few weeks ago (a sale) -- none of them sold.

Because of the nature of these upgrade kits, it won't be hard for GW to release Wave Two with the other C:SM Chapters, and they probably will. For all we know, they will come out on the other side of the Codex, so in a few weeks. And if they don't, that is pretty gakky of them, but it isn't the end of the world. I know I would be overjoyed if they came out with Imperial/Crimson Fists upgrade kits (with a Power Fist or Maul, damnit!), but I already have most of my Fists built and painted, this would just make me need to rip off arms and existing shoulder pads. I could see the Raven Guard one coming with a Lightning Claw. Salamanders could come with a blinged out flamer or meltagun.

Secondly, the BA kit is disappointing to me because all three of the other ones received two weapons, the BA one received none. The two sculpted torsos are cool, and I am going to reformulate my Assault Squads to make use of them and the shoulder pads, but I would rather have received a BA weapon or two, like a hand flamer or inferno pistol. Something iconic to BA. The Blood Chalice is cool, but it isn't exactly that useful without a narthecium to go with it for a custom Sanguinary Priest (I guess you could use an Apothecary from the Command Squad to make one). The Death Mask is worthless since the only models that can use them already come with them.

EDIT: You know, if I didn't suck royally at placing decals, I would be all over the BA decal sheet. I love that they even include wet transfer banners on them for putting on the Command Squad banner.

EDIT the Second: You know what is probably going to happen instead of them releasing upgrades for the other First Founding Chapters or Chaos Legions? They will probably release upgrade kits for Terminators with Terminator shoulder pads and whatnot.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Secondly, the BA kit is disappointing to me because all three of the other ones received two weapons, the BA one received none. The two sculpted torsos are cool, and I am going to reformulate my Assault Squads to make use of them and the shoulder pads, but I would rather have received a BA weapon or two, like a hand flamer or inferno pistol. Something iconic to BA. The Blood Chalice is cool, but it isn't exactly that useful without a narthecium to go with it for a custom Sanguinary Priest (I guess you could use an Apothecary from the Command Squad to make one). The Death Mask is worthless since the only models that can use them already come with them.

I'm in a "BA building phase" right now, after 15 years of neglect to that faction, so the BA stuff is particularly interesting to me.

We don't get a weapon, but we get two torso fronts. In actuality, that's two extra marines you can build, because for a lot (most?) space marine players, the limiting factor for more marines is nice front torsos. In addition, they are really nice ones, suitable for clearly identifying squad leaders. If you play squads of 5 (or sometimes do this), the BA tactical kit comes with only 1 fancy front for 10 marines.

Most people who play BA who own the command squad box, I think, will have a narthecium -- the cup really does let you get a free priest, I think. But the real priest is a pretty cool model.

I don't know why you'd want a second cup though, and frankly, all the heads are wasted. Between Death Company, BA Tactical, and Sanguinary Guard, we have way, way more heads than we can use. And it's not like EVERY head you ever build needs blood drops/cups, or have fangs.

The shoulder pads are really nice. having 2 of the raised lip ones is a win -- I really love these. And one is spikey lip, which is also cool. Frankly, I think that BA players are spoiled with shoulder pads; and really, that's the reason I'm modelling them now LOL.

 Talys wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Secondly, the BA kit is disappointing to me because all three of the other ones received two weapons, the BA one received none. The two sculpted torsos are cool, and I am going to reformulate my Assault Squads to make use of them and the shoulder pads, but I would rather have received a BA weapon or two, like a hand flamer or inferno pistol. Something iconic to BA. The Blood Chalice is cool, but it isn't exactly that useful without a narthecium to go with it for a custom Sanguinary Priest (I guess you could use an Apothecary from the Command Squad to make one). The Death Mask is worthless since the only models that can use them already come with them.

I'm in a "BA building phase" right now, after 15 years of neglect to that faction, so the BA stuff is particularly interesting to me.

We don't get a weapon, but we get two torso fronts. In actuality, that's two extra marines you can build, because for a lot (most?) space marine players, the limiting factor for more marines is nice front torsos. In addition, they are really nice ones, suitable for clearly identifying squad leaders. If you play squads of 5 (or sometimes do this), the BA tactical kit comes with only 1 fancy front for 10 marines.

Most people who play BA who own the command squad box, I think, will have a narthecium -- the cup really does let you get a free priest, I think. But the real priest is a pretty cool model.

I don't know why you'd want a second cup though, and frankly, all the heads are wasted. Between Death Company, BA Tactical, and Sanguinary Guard, we have way, way more heads than we can use. And it's not like EVERY head you ever build needs blood drops/cups, or have fangs.

The shoulder pads are really nice. having 2 of the raised lip ones is a win -- I really love these. And one is spikey lip, which is also cool. Frankly, I think that BA players are spoiled with shoulder pads; and really, that's the reason I'm modelling them now LOL.

I am on the building phase of BA as well (my second army after Crimson Fists), but I will have to disassemble a few models to put this kit to use. Those torso fronts are nice, but the limiting factor for building marines is actually the legs. I have a good number of extra torso fronts as is (most kits come with one additional), but I only have exactly as many marines as I have legs. For the most part, outside of the two torso fronts and the shoulder pads, the rest of the kit is fairly worthless.

I'd buy the old ASM kit simply for the running legs and extra pistol and chainsword arms. It all really depends though on how much new stuff we get in the new box.

I know for a long time if I needed a rhino, I'd buy either a whirlwind or razorback, just for the extra bits.

 Talys wrote:
I don't know why you'd want a second cup though

They're probably just the two halves of a single cup, so it's hollow on the inside.

 Redemption wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I don't know why you'd want a second cup though

They're probably just the two halves of a single cup, so it's hollow on the inside.

Or maybe there is two incase a spontanious urge arises to play beer pong.

 Talys wrote:

 Ehsteve wrote:

You're talking about the subjective value of luxury goods (mainly driven by consumer preference), whereas I'm talking about the straight value of money changing its value over time as it is introduced or removed from the economy.

So while you may be willing to say that your personal value of the product in question (depending on your preference) can tollerate that rise, that's one thing, I'm just talking about you throwing the same money at the same thing and for some reason getting less, or in this case, having to shill out an extra 24%-35% for what amounts to the same thing.

So the question is: given that the space marine assault squad released in 2005 was of comparible quality in relation to the market as it is now, is that rise in value wholly justified? I don't think so. I believe that to the average player, they would have been just as hyped to see these redone with more detail as much as the last set, and as far as I recall, there was no change in price between the pre and post 2005 set.

Well, I was actually categorizing GW products as luxury goods (I think they are), which "outperform" the CPI that we judge inflation by. Especially in recent years, luxury goods have shot up in price in comparison to the buying power of average people, meaning that average wage earners can buy fewer video games, go to less movies, eat less junk food at those theatres, and buy less miniatures than they could in 2005.

But you're right; that part is academic, and interesting only from a dispassionate, observational point of view, which obviously we're not in, or we wouldn't be on this forum

What I meant by the ASM being worth more is that I just look at it from a different perspective. Without any consideration of the price in 2005, because that's also academic, the old kit was USD$33. The new kit is USD $42. Depending on how you look at it, that's a difference of $9, which is not very much money, or 21%, which is a very large percentage. The latter is a better way to look the price in general, because it's reflective of the direction of prices in general, and you're not just buying 1 kit.

TLDR: Yes, big price hike.

Is it worth it?

Well, here's the thing, put the two kits side by side in a store, the old one for $33, the new one for $42. I guarantee you fifty of the new kit will sell, and the old kit will still be sitting there on the shelf. Now, practically, most stores will have the old kit for $25 (15% discount) or less. Come Christmas or Boxing day, the smart store will discount those to 50%, dropping it to $16 or so. There is a pretty good chance that even then, it won't sell! On the same day, the store may discount the new kit to 25%, or $32.

So, on Boxing Day, the new kit will probably cost TWICE as much as the old kit. Yet, the new ASM kits will be gone, bought by the first people to walk through the door, while the old kits will gather dust, next to the old ravenwing bikes and the old windriders.

My point -- not a whole lot of people in the whole world want the old Assault Marine box at even it's 2005 price. It's old and dingy. So the price jump of 20% is really irrelevant, because the new kit is something that *some* people want. They might represent the same unit in-game, but they are totally different products on the shelf.

Just like the old Windriders, marked down to 50% of MSRP at one of my FLGS just a few weeks ago (a sale) -- none of them sold.

But the issue is that the products are essentially the exact same thing. The outlays (design, manufacturing, marketing and packaging) have not significantly gone up and there hasn't been a plastic crisis in the past 10 years, in fact by any measure they have gone down due to the efficiency-driven cutbacks (CAD-assisted design to save materials and space) they've had to deliver in order to maximize profits on sales or otherwise maintain the same level (unknown). If the old Assault Marine set was designed with the same philosophy (and has been for over 30 years) so the rise in cost beyond inflation is actually...unjustified unless there is some other hidden cost that has not been taken into account.

If a significant enough margin was made on the original to cover outlays and make a reasonable profit, then the only reason to drive up prices if outlays remain constant is that volume is not high enough to cover outlays and meet either that same or a higher expected level or profit. So either demand is rising, or they're having trouble paying the bills.

 Wilson wrote:

 Redemption wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I don't know why you'd want a second cup though

They're probably just the two halves of a single cup, so it's hollow on the inside.

Or maybe there is two incase a spontanious urge arises to play beerBLOOD pong.

Fixed that for you.

What is plastic made from?

General Hobbs wrote:



What is plastic made from?

Petrochemicals.

You mean Finepetrochemicals™?