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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Back from my latest tournament with Magnus and Mutation.

Unfortunately I didn't play in many scenarios where mutation was useful. I slowed a couple things down, but nothing critical.

List:

Magnus
Sorcerer, 2x Blessing
IM, Crystal
DP, Conniving Plate

5 Rubrics, 2 Flamers
2x10 Tzaangors, Banner
5 Scarabs, HMR&SR, Rites
5 Scarabs, HMR&SR, Ardent
2x1 Spawn
Helbrute, ML, Plasma
Contemptor, 2x Plasma
Vindicator

Game 1 - Tau

Two Hammerheads - a good a test as any. I opted to put Magnus into reserves. Also, I went first....gross. Magnus didn't come on until turn 3. Spoiler - the Hammerheads missed all of their shots except for one on Magnus and he lived until the end of the game.

Oh, also - absolute hero Scarab Sorc. He did a mega smite on a Commander, rolled a 6 and then pushed an extra D3. Huge swing in my favor.

Victory 84 to 64

Game 2 - Iron Hands

Grav Drop pod, Contemptor Character, 2x Thunderstrike, Achilles w/ Ironstone support, bunch of VV. I deployed Magnus on table and also got first turn. For some reason I was really gun shy and I opted to keep Magnus back - I guess because of the drop pod. This was a fatal mistake. I was also reluctant to take the Achilles head on and spend too much time trying to take it out. Ultimately it should have died a turn earlier had I not been so skittish.

Forcing my opponent to deal with Magnus as well as my other vehicles would have either kept them alive longer or opened him up more so that I could win.

Loss 47-88

Game 3 - Thousand Sons!

2x10 Scarabs, Ahriman, 3 Helverins

I decided to go for Wrath of Magnus for fun and to see who would come out on top in this very thematic matchup. And let me tell you...Scarabs vs Scarabs...hoooollyyyy shiiiiit...NOTHING dies. I was otherwise very successful with Strangle and Wrath. I also did banners, but should have done something different.

Victory 85-66

Now it's back to the drawing board for the next CA. Overall very happy with Magnus and the flexibility of the list. Daemon Prince didn't end up doing much so I may drop him for some other support.

   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

If I'm reading his rule right, Abbadon doesn't break legion rules?

Adding Abby might be a thing in TS list, to give some CC "ooph" into the army.

What say you?

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 whembly wrote:
If I'm reading his rule right, Abbadon doesn't break legion rules?

Adding Abby might be a thing in TS list, to give some CC "ooph" into the army.

What say you?


You have no way to buff him, at which point he's good, but easily overwhelmed. I'm more interested in the ramifications of the upcoming Daemons rules.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




 whembly wrote:
If I'm reading his rule right, Abbadon doesn't break legion rules?

Adding Abby might be a thing in TS list, to give some CC "ooph" into the army.

What say you?

You have to take Magnus or Mortarion if you want TSons/Death Guard warlord traits/relics and secondaries.

Because otherwise Abby becomes your Warlord.
   
Made in us
Reading a Book in the Tower of Prospero





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

EightFoldPath wrote:
 whembly wrote:
If I'm reading his rule right, Abbadon doesn't break legion rules?

Adding Abby might be a thing in TS list, to give some CC "ooph" into the army.

What say you?

You have to take Magnus or Mortarion if you want TSons/Death Guard warlord traits/relics and secondaries.

Because otherwise Abby becomes your Warlord.

Are you sure if Abby's the WL, that I'd lose out on the TS/DG secondaries? I do see the traits/relics wouldn't have been available. (although, if I'd paid for TS relic via Dilettante, wouldn't that work?)

6000
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!

4000

∞ Chaos Daemons and CSM


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 whembly wrote:
EightFoldPath wrote:
 whembly wrote:
If I'm reading his rule right, Abbadon doesn't break legion rules?

Adding Abby might be a thing in TS list, to give some CC "ooph" into the army.

What say you?

You have to take Magnus or Mortarion if you want TSons/Death Guard warlord traits/relics and secondaries.

Because otherwise Abby becomes your Warlord.

Are you sure if Abby's the WL, that I'd lose out on the TS/DG secondaries? I do see the traits/relics wouldn't have been available. (although, if I'd paid for TS relic via Dilettante, wouldn't that work?)

He gets the Agent of Chaos rule if he's your Warlord. You'd be fine I think
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





So I'll be on a 30 player tournament this weekend with this list:

Ahriman on Disk
Exalted on Disk (Scrolls & Arrogance)
Infernal Master (Crystal & Master Misinformator)
Shaman
4 x 5 Rubrics with Soulreaper & Icon
1 x 5 Rubrics
10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs (Maximum Soulreapers & Missile Racks and all of them with Surge)
3 x 1 Spawn

Had 8 practice games the last weeks with this list. 3 against Knights (won all with 93+:~50 each), 2 against Tau (both won about 80:60) and 3 against different Marines (2 wins, 1 loss).
Feeling quite confident in those matchups and the list overall works good on scoring and is quite tanky.
There will be 3 Sisters, 3 Nids, 1 GK, 2 TS and a few Eldar players though, which I don't have much experience against and I guess those will be the tough matches for me.
Any suggestions how the handle them and where I should set my priorities?

So far my go to for secondies has been:

Psychic Interrogation
Banners / RND / Stranglehold depending on map & objectives
Wrath / No Prisoners / Bring it Down / assassinate depending on opponent

Generally plan is to infiltrate the cheap Rubrics for early RND and objective grabbing. Surge on all Scarabs in combination with Duplicity and the Crystal helps a lot to keep the list mobile while my multiple units (Rubrics and Spawns) take objectives and screen out any annoying Deep strikers.
Shaman flies around interrogating characters, Exalted with Gaze & Firestorm has been sniping a lot which he is very good at with Scrolls & 2 Rituals each turn.
21 Cabal points leave enough room for undeniable interrogation, the extra CP and enough Cabal Points to spare for occasional psyching with the Exalted without LOS or getting of key powers.
Ahriman & Master work as buff machines with Weaver, Glamour, Presage & Malefic Maelstrom.
Has catched quite a few opponents offguard what amount of damage the 10 Termis can dish out. They can one-shot a Knight without problems and have been really great.

One of my favourite tricks has been to jump the Scarabs after they lost models and use the autopass on the 5th smite to get 1 dude back with the strat and make the 9" charge an 5" charge.
Been skipping the Orrey and other secondary Traits/ relics as they probably won't make the cut with the new Niphilim CP rules. Also I skipped the upgrades on Scarabs + Rehati as I found the extra points far more viable to get extra stuff on the board.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Looks like we've got points changes incoming: https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-the-nephilim-points-update/

Cheaper Rubric gear, cheaper Hellbrutes, cheaper Legion Command... it's like this update was purpose-designed as a wish list for the way I want to go with the army. (Scarabs untouched, which I'm perfectly fine with.)

Heck, a Predator Annihilator suddenly looks good as a long-range tankhunter. Certainly a 5+ invul makes it bit tougher than your average bear, and 'reach way out and kill something big' is definitely one of the Thousand Sons' weaker areas.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well the list I posted here definitely got a little cheaper at least.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Oooh! Icon of Flame is now free! ( Plasma and Warpflame pistols, too ).

Best place to see all changes in context.

https://tabletoptactics.tv/?p=353500#1655210473784-160168b4-e211

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/22 19:34:43


   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Changes

HQ - none I saw

Troops -Rubrics now get icon free, warp flamers down 3, Soul Reaper down 5, and pistols free.

Elites - Hellbrute down 10

Fast None

Heavy Land Raider down to 40 points, predator A down 15, predator D down 10, Vindicator down 10,

Magnus down 30

Add all of the Legion Command are down 5 points each.

Overall thoughts....... the reduction on the Rubric equipment is money. 5 Man backfield squad with icon and reaper are down from 125 to 110. And you can take a free pistol if you want. My 9 man Rubric flamer squad with flame pistol went from 242 to 213! Rubrics were already a solid choice and now they may be one of the better troops in the game.

The reduction on legion command is also great. I will actually make use of the reduction on hellbrutes and I field two in my list currently.

I think it is ok that the Scarabs were not reduced, I think they are perfectly costed even with AoC.

I guess it is nice that the Land Rader and Vindicaor are cheapers, but I would rather them not be and get the rules from the new CSM book for them. The new states on the Land Raider would be great for TS as we need AT weapons badly.

Magnus down 30 is cute, but personally I still think he is like 20 to 50 points to expensive.

While not necessary, I think a point reduction on the Tgors and a reduction on the Shaman would have helped, especially since Rubrics improved so much, there is really no point to Tgors, and so no point to Shaman.

Finally, this is the second point release since our new book and Enlighten are still 18 points!!!!! I would not even use them at 10 points. They are either CC unit that hits like a noodle then dies as they have no survivalablity, or they are the worst sniper unit in the game as they don't have the 6's to wound do a mortal. I mean really.

Finally I guess a new balance sheet is coming out tomorrow, so we will see what that brings.

   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





I suspect the drop in price on the Land Raider represents the fact that TS will not be getting the updated statline.

As usual, happy to be wrong, but I'd rather have the upgraded profile.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Wow nothing in the balance sheet. Personally I think we could use a few buffs on some of the lesser used spells in our book. Guess we should be happy with the points reductions but I still don't think we will be top tier.
   
Made in us
Morphing Obliterator





 xeen wrote:
Wow nothing in the balance sheet. Personally I think we could use a few buffs on some of the lesser used spells in our book. Guess we should be happy with the points reductions but I still don't think we will be top tier.


After seeing what they did to Warptime I'm happy to keep flying under the radar.

"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."  
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Well they nerfed the top armies quite a bit and while we did not get any buffs, we did not get any nerfs as well with this dateslate.
On top of that we got a few point decreases who help Rubric heavy lists and with Cabal Point generation.
Also we got some of the best secondaries right now.

Considering the (in parts) heavy nerfs to Harlies, Tau, Tyras and Aeldari we are definitely above 50% winrate right now and might be even among the top armies.

Overall it looks like the playing field is a lot more leveled at thos point.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

ok, so after a foray into bolt action, i am now looking back at my tsons and trying to build up the force to 2k (finally). im considering my options for expansion, and trying to work out whats best bang for buck.

at the moment, i own:

ahirman
infernal master

10 bolter rubrics

20 tzanngors

5 scarab termies

shaman.

Rhino

all of which clocks in at just over 1k. things im considering for my 2k expansion:

warpflame rubrics: stick them in the rhino, or possibly rise them close to the enemy, watch the world burn.

more scarabs: been proxing up to 1,500 with some loyalist stand ins, and termies ROCK!

those two alone would ball-park me to 1,500, so im really looking for advice on the last 500 points.

Im seriously debating getting a Knight for pure distraction carnifex style shenanigans. something like a rampager, or Abominant, that i can throw forward to give the enemy a threat they HAVE to react to, and give me time and space to get out into the midboard. is this a good idea? or just a waste of cash and im better off getting more scarabs?


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I'd go in for a third squad of Rubrics; they're absolutely clutch. Two squads with Bolters and one with flamers is a rock-solid core you can build around, and fulfill a battalion's Troops requirements- so you can add or remove the Tzaangors as you wish.

Another model for an Exalted Sorc is also great- one 'on foot' to bolster Scarabs or Rubrics while Ahriman floats around churning out Mortals, or vice-versa.

Really, I'd say more Scarabs is meta at the moment, but that's a very transient thing. I'd say branch out a bit more so you're not stuck if they nerf them. A big ten-man squad is almost always going to be useful, but the current lean towards 20-30 of them is a bit much, I think.

For Knights, I heartily recommend an Abominant. Their ability to get a 5+++ makes them tough for the distraction role, and it makes your psychic phase even more of a pain for your opponent. Tricky bit would be the CP cost- I don't know if having the Tzeentch keyword from the Pyrothrone or Mirror counts for a shared faction for CP refunds for a Super-Heavy Aux Detachment, but I don't think so.
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





If you want to add Knights i`d rather take Wardogs. If you want to go the distraction carnifex route i`d rather go for 2-3 Vortex beasts and do some mortals on top.


Otherwise most lists tend to run at leat 15 / 20 Scarabs and an Exalted on Disk in addition to your stuff so i would definitely go for them first. Unless you really love Rubrics and want to spam like 60 of them you should always have at least 15 Scarabs.

I mean there is not much room for list experiments as we have a limited range of units to choose from.
Ahriman, Exalted, Infernal Master, 10 Rubrics and 20 Scarabs are the (solid) core of most lists and the remaining 500 points are where you see some variation.

Shaman is a strong choice for Warpcraft Secondaries(especially with Nephilim), more Rubrics are always a good take (i`ve been running 5 x 5 a lot), Wardogs or occacional a FW bot of your liking are fine as well.
I think with the Nephelim season it`s even more important to have a few additional cheap tools for screening, backfield camping or to move stuff besides your Rubrics & Scarabs on objectives if they just need to do their thing one turn and get deleted after.
Single Spawns are a great unit for that and can be taken in squads of 5 as well to have a bit extra output. Cultists and Tzaangors do similar things but are a bit more expensive plus they give away more no prisoners points while being slower. They can do actions though. Personally i will add 1-2 squads of Enlighened after the latest point drops instead of 3 x 1 Spawn. They don`t do much damage wise but their mobility helps a lot and they might do some damage while scoring as well.
You really want to have as much mobility as possible.

With TTL & Stranglehold gone we need a good secondary plan, especially against lists that don`t give up any easy 10+ VP killing secondaries. Even more in matchups without enemy psykers as that means we give up a lot on Abhor the witch and basically need to take 2 basic secondaries as our Faction ones are either fantastic or useles depending on the opponent.
Rituals help a lot to score good on Warp Ritual or Psychic Interrogation but especially in matchups with bad Purge / No mercy objectives you need to be able to score good on primaries + get that 12 points on Shadow operation.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
RedX wrote:
I'd go in for a third squad of Rubrics; they're absolutely clutch. Two squads with Bolters and one with flamers is a rock-solid core you can build around, and fulfill a battalion's Troops requirements- so you can add or remove the Tzaangors as you wish.

Another model for an Exalted Sorc is also great- one 'on foot' to bolster Scarabs or Rubrics while Ahriman floats around churning out Mortals, or vice-versa.

Really, I'd say more Scarabs is meta at the moment, but that's a very transient thing. I'd say branch out a bit more so you're not stuck if they nerf them. A big ten-man squad is almost always going to be useful, but the current lean towards 20-30 of them is a bit much, I think.

For Knights, I heartily recommend an Abominant. Their ability to get a 5+++ makes them tough for the distraction role, and it makes your psychic phase even more of a pain for your opponent. Tricky bit would be the CP cost- I don't know if having the Tzeentch keyword from the Pyrothrone or Mirror counts for a shared faction for CP refunds for a Super-Heavy Aux Detachment, but I don't think so.

Absolutely, Battalion is the way to go and it`s actually kind of an inderect buff for us as we mostly played a single battalion anyway and armies that relied on multiple detachments need to change their army composition if they want those sweet starting CP.

I would always recommend to play Ahriman & Exalted on Disk. The extra mobility can be pure gold, mostly towards the end of the game when you`re spread thin and need to be places.


Not a 100& sure about the CP cost for the Knight though. Technically the Warlords Detachment is a TS and a Tzeentch Detachment as well, so while we would consider it a TS detachment for most rules purposes it seems to fulfill the requirement to get back the CP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/29 21:15:06


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Don't be quick to dump Tzaangors. They're cheap, obsec, durable, and pick up the slack on actions. And you don't have to hold rubrics back on objectives if they're around.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Agree with 'cheap' and 'action-doers' (except psychic ones), but I dunno about 'durable'. Seems like they'd naturally attract all the firepower that normally bounces off Rubrics and Scarabs; Marines have a lot of incidental bolter fire, for example, that between Armor of Contempt and All is Dust would just be bouncing off of Rubrics even in Tactical Doctrine... but would chew through Tzaangors quite nicely, with little opportunity cost to the Marine player.

And what would one be doing with Rubrics if not being on objectives? That's one of their two big roles, that they're practically designed for. (The other being 'Mobile Warpflamer Hit Squad', often seeking to knock enemies off objectives, so yeah.) They're not shock units, and they're too expensive for screening.

So I guess I can see Tzaangors for forward screening and harassment, but they're not going to be picking up objective duty except in extremis.

Hrm. I think the real question isn't 'Rubrics or Tzaangors', it's 'Spawn or Tzaangors'. Both have the same sort of mobile expendable melee harassment role.
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Yeah Rubrics are fantastic per se and can tank a lot of random bolter fire and similar stuff.
I went to a tournament last weekend with my list i posted 1-2 pages back.

Ahriman on Disk, Exalted on disk, Infernal Master, Shaman
5 x 5 Rubrics
10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs
3 x 1 Spawn

The Rubrics have been doing a solid job scoring and it happened quite often 1-2 models survived and still held my objective.
I might reduce it to 4 x 5 to get a bit more other stuff but thats the lowest i want to go. While Cultists and Tzaangors are cheap and good at the beginning when most of your opponents focus tends to be on Scarabs, Rubrics and objective grabbing units they die fast if the opponent gets an angle on them or if you reach the endgame.
Cultists and Tzaangors can help if you run out of points for stuff like Wardogs or other single vehicles / bots you like to get in your list but if i have the points i guess i`ll stay with Rubrics.

Tournament was a small one with just 3 games.
(And Nachmund with no rules or point updates from the latest dataslates etc.)

First game was a Mirror Match against TS with 20 Tzaangors, 1 squad of 5 Spawns and 2 x 10 Scarabs but otherwise very similar to my list with a few less Rubrics.
I was the first to go for the midfield objective after we both started cagey which gave me the edge in Primary scoring. In the end it was a lot of denies, a lot of fun and a close 97:89 win for me.

Second game i faced a pretty standard Leviathan list with 2 Harpies, Maleceptor and the usual stuff.
He went first and i played veeery cagey which meant his Maleceptor started doing things turn 3.
Nids player used his two Harpies very aggressively so i knocked both of them down turn 1.

After that i traded my Rubrics midfield to deny him as many points as possible while holding most of my Scarabs back for turn 3-4.
As soon as he reached my deployment zone i used everything i had left for one last aggressive push, got tabled turn 5 but was able to save a very tight 62:60 win!
Awesome game but it was really really hard and there was no room for errors in that one.

Last game went against a (now) 2400 point Tau list including Longstrike, 1 Hammerhead, Shadowsun and almost 20 Crisis suits with i guess what must have been all the plasma of the entire Tau empire.
We had premade terrain layouts, which had been excellent the first two games but in mission 3 had some really mean firing angles with basicly no places to hide.
Like the games before i went second, so my units got hammered from the start without any defensive psychic powers up turn 1.
I managed to kill about 10 Crisis and a bit of his Kroot stuff but was basicly on my back foot from turn one.
In the end i got tabled turn 5 and lost 79:64 which would have been a 71:68 if my Scarabs would have made a 9" charge including Infernal Master reroll turn 4.
Overall i am still happy with the result as it basically was a 1940:2400 points game and quite close considering point difference, terrain layout and going second.
Opponent was a Team mate of mine who got 3rd with this win, so kinda sad as a win would have gotten me on the winners podium but i still got 10/24 and Nephilim nerfed 2 of my opponents armies while buffing TS so i am very optimistic for the coming weeks.



Still thinking about how to tune my list. Got 61 points from the points drop so i guess one of the Spawns will become a squad of 3 enlightened.
I was also thinking about a Dreadclaw to have some options for early midboard plays without spending the 2 CP on Risen Rubricae. Otherwise Flamers look quite attractive now and i think i want to get Ardent Automata back in my list. Ether for infiltrating / Dreadclawing Flamer Rubrics just to get some early scoring while flaming or simply on the 10 man Scarab squad.
Gonna keep the 10 + 5 + 5 Scarabs as TTL is gone, the flexibility has proven to be quite amazing and i don`t want to have to use 3 CP -1dmg in Nephilim too often.
5 + 5 + 5 Scarabs would be cool as well but those 10 dudes have been doing excellent damage i don`t want to be missing out. :/
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

well, as it happens, the very day after i post, another player in my local group whose moving overseas and looking to downsize his collection somewhat has aggreed to sell me 20 rubrics for like £30, so thats kinda answered that question. next purchase after that will be either some scarabs, or maybe some more bolt action stuff (pak 38 and a pz III, for anyone who cares).

after that? still not sure. I'm toying with using something other than just more foot sloggers, but as you guys point out, our current meta is leaning hard towards just that. plus a all infantry army is much easier to transport for me than one with lots of tanks.

I like my tzanngor, they've given me good service, within the modest expectations i place on them. For me, i like them because their cheap enough i dont care too much if they die, and cheap enough to risk. They have obsec (and the numbers to do something with it then they get to a point), and sometimes, throwing them onto a enemy point to die contesting it can be a 5-10 point swing in the primaries. And, oddly enough, I've found them to not be *that* fragile, at least not as fragile as i though they would be (ie "die in a stiff breeze"). that t4, 5++ save actaully does some real good work for them, and if you really need to live, you can throw Weaver of Fates for a 4++. a 20 birb blob can absord a surprising amount of bolter fire, generally.

quick question to you guys: do you think that now, with armour of contempt, that the pistol/chainsword option is a better choice than the -1ap blades? i've always used the latter as i felt that -1ap on the two melee attacks was worth more than a extra str 3 ap0 pistol shot, but now im not so sure given how many units will just be ignoring the AP.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





xerxeskingofking wrote:
quick question to you guys: do you think that now, with armour of contempt, that the pistol/chainsword option is a better choice than the -1ap blades? i've always used the latter as i felt that -1ap on the two melee attacks was worth more than a extra str 3 ap0 pistol shot, but now im not so sure given how many units will just be ignoring the AP.


Personally i think the chainswords and pistols are the worst option. While they will do a little more damage against 1 wound T3 infantry they are worse against pretty much anything else. I`d go for the Spears for a little bit of extra punch if you want melee or for the Bows to do that occasional sniping wound after your Exalted left that one character standing with 1 last wound.

I simply play Bows most of the time as i have 9 dudes with Bows build and i like them. But overall any damage is a bonus as i think of them simply as annoying little tool to play the mission. I used to run them quite a lot in 8th, but the Bow is just too bad to think about anything more than 1-2 small skirmisher tools.
If they had twice the shots or the ability to do mortals on a 6 they might be in my lists more often.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential




dorset

 Grotrebel wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
quick question to you guys: do you think that now, with armour of contempt, that the pistol/chainsword option is a better choice than the -1ap blades? i've always used the latter as i felt that -1ap on the two melee attacks was worth more than a extra str 3 ap0 pistol shot, but now im not so sure given how many units will just be ignoring the AP.


Personally i think the chainswords and pistols are the worst option. While they will do a little more damage against 1 wound T3 infantry they are worse against pretty much anything else. I`d go for the Spears for a little bit of extra punch if you want melee or for the Bows to do that occasional sniping wound after your Exalted left that one character standing with 1 last wound.

I simply play Bows most of the time as i have 9 dudes with Bows build and i like them. But overall any damage is a bonus as i think of them simply as annoying little tool to play the mission. I used to run them quite a lot in 8th, but the Bow is just too bad to think about anything more than 1-2 small skirmisher tools.
If they had twice the shots or the ability to do mortals on a 6 they might be in my lists more often.


sorry, i was not clear in my post, i was referring to regular tzaangor on foot (claw?), not the disc mounted Enlightened.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 15:53:24


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1500 pts Watch Company Rho 1000pts
 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Ah i see. Well i still would rather go for the blades AP then a pistol which you won`t use when making actions, advancing or getting whiped after you charged something to die later. When i think about my uses of Tzaangors i see more situations where the AP was helping than a few S3 shots would have.

On the other hand i wouldn`t overthink it as it won`t matter that often considering the humble Tzaangors tasks.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Thinking about playing this list:


++Battalion detachment ++
[Faction: Chaos, Thousand sons, Cult of Duplicity]

+HQ+


+Ahriman [9 PL, 160pts], Disc of Tzeentch [20pts] +
. PSYCHIC POWERS: Doombolt, Tzeentch’s Firestorm, Temporal Surge

+Exalted Sorcerer [8 PL, 100pts], Disc of Tzeentch [25pts]+
. LEGION COMMAND: Rehati [25pts]
. PSYCHIC POWERS: Weaver of fates, Glamour of Tzeentch , (Sorcerous facade)
. WARLORD
. RELIC: Umbralific crystal

+Infernal Master [5 PL, 90pts]+
. INFERNAL PACT: Glimpse of eternity, Malific mealstrom
. PSYCHIC POWERS: Presage, (Sorcerous facade)

+Troops+

+8x Rubric marines [6 PL, 168pts]+
. 1x Rubric marine, 1x inferno boltgun
. 6x Rubric marine, 6x Warpflamer [18pts]
. 1x Aspiring sorcerer, warp flame pistol [0pts]
. PSYCHIC POWER: Pyric flux, (Sorcerous facade)

+5x Rubric marines [6 PL, 105pts]+
. 3x Rubric marine, 3x inferno boltgun
. 1x Rubric marine, 1x Soulreaper cannon [5pts]
. 1x Aspiring sorcerer, warp flame pistol [0pts]
. PSYCHIC POWER: Temporal surge, (Sorcerous facade)

+5x Rubric marines [6 PL, 105pts]+
. 3x Rubric marine, 3x inferno boltgun
. 1x Rubric marine, 1x Soulreaper cannon [5pts]
. 1x Aspiring sorcerer, warp flame pistol [0pts]
. PSYCHIC POWER: Temporal surge, (Sorcerous facade)

+5x Rubric marines [6 PL, 105pts]+
. 3x Rubric marine, 3x inferno boltgun
. 1x Rubric marine, 1x Soulreaper cannon [5pts]
. 1x Aspiring sorcerer, warp flame pistol [0pts]
. PSYCHIC POWER: Temporal surge, (Sorcerous facade)

+Elite+

+10x Scarab occult Terminators [20 PL, 400pts]+
. 1x Aspiring sorcerer, inferno combi bolter, force staff
. LEGION COMMAND: Rites of coalescence [15pts]
. PSYCHIC POWER: Presage, Time flux
. 2x Scarab occult Terminators, 2x Soulreaper cannons (2x5pts), 2x Hellfyre missle rack (2x10pts)

+Tzaangor shaman [4 PL, 70pts]+
. PSYCHIC POWERS: Twist of fate, (Sorcerous facade)

+Fast attack+

+1x Chaos spawn [1 PL, 23pts]+
+1x Chaos spawn [1 PL, 23pts]+
+1x Chaos spawn [1 PL, 23pts]+

++Super heavy auxiliary detachment++
[Faction: Chaos knights, Questor traitoris, Iconoclast Household, Dreadblade / Agents of chaos]

+Lord of war+
Fell bond: Worthy offerings
+War dog brigand [8PL, 155pts], Diabolus heavy stubber (0 pts)+
+War dog brigand [8PL, 155pts], Diabolus heavy stubber (0 pts)+
+War dog huntsman [9PL, 145pts], Daemonbreath Meltagun (5 pts), Favour of the dark gods: Pyrothrone (25pts)
. Tzeentch, Psyker
. PSYCHIC POWER: Winds of the warp

------------------------------------------------------------
Really like the setup even when the super heavy auxiliary detachment eats a lot of Command points and leaves me only with 2 CP at the start of the game ( new CP rules..) As long as I can use defensive stratagems to protect my terminators and give them +1 to wound, I'am fine.

Normally I play Cult of time so that I can regenerate terminators but in this setup it's better to go full cult of duplicity.

Wardogs are fast and can control a particular part of the battlefield, and the huntsman can use his psychic power top get 5+ feel no pain and maybe give the other wardogs a 6+ feel no pain with a high psychic test result. Huntsmen also gives a nice counterstrike close combat punch if needed. The Fellbond bonus gives them +1 to hit against MC/vehicles/characters so hopefully that gives the deamonbreath melta a better kick. in combination with my shaman (twist of fate) that could take out an enemies invulnerable save this could really hurt.

Shaman can go for psychic interrogation. I need this to work each battle round so that I get that extra command point. Or I got to use that cabbalistic ritual command point bonus. Either way, an extra command point each round is really needed.

Spawns are great for creating small anti-deepstrike bubbles. Simply deploy them in cover and let them be a nuisance.

Any input is welcome!

   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




Grotrebel's list (similar to mine) and your list are both good lists and where the faction is if it wants to be winning.

I'm trying to add some monster/vehicles to my Grotrebel style list to lessen the No Prionsers points I give up and I do think 3 War Dogs at 3 CP are probably the best option.

I'd rather take Executioners (D3 is something we lack as well as D6+2) or Stalkers w/ daemonbreath (melee threat) over Brigands (the chaincannon is very much more of the same kind of shooting we have).

The Codex Monster/Vehicle options continue to look poor when compared to War Dogs and Volkite Contemptors, but they both cost precious CP (and the VolCons are pricey pointswise too).

I am going to try some Vindicators/Las Preds on the tabletop soon I hope in a test game, but I suspect even at 120/115 they will feel expensive.

It is also a shame the Tzaangor/Mutalith parts of the codex were ignored in the points. Tzaangors at 6, Enlightened at 12 and Mutaliths at 130 would have been nice.
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Funny, I tried to reduce infantry/ psykers as well to make No Prisoners / Abhor / Assassinate harder for your opponent. But I think those 4 characters is where we wanna be right now.

You could specifically build for Mutate which is the only Warpcraft secondary that can be done by our Aspiring Sorcerers which would help to reduce Assassinate as well.
Interrogation sometimes feels like a trap tbh. As soon as your opponent denies it once you could also have gone for Ritual instead.


About vehicles: Yeah all of those feel still a bit overpriced for what they do.
I use my Forgefiend / Defiler from time to time and sometimes the Quad LasCa Contemptor but 1 CP on top of 190 points is hard to justify now. Same for the Volkite boy.
A Rhino is always a good option for mobility but won't do much dmg wise.
Tried to fit a Dreadclaw in my tournament list which meant loosing that 5th squad of Rubrics though.

I think Vindicators / Preds might be ok as they will take a bit of pressure from your Scarabs and might help with Backfield screening / camping.

I absolutely love the model of the Vortex beast but it just feels like a little bit too expensive distraction carnifex that adds a few Mortals to your list. Might be worth it with TTL & Stranglehold gone as maybe more armies need to be more aggressive.

Anyone of you had any luck building a Brigade? I really, really would love to have more fast attack slots to mix Enlightened with multiple single Spawns for lots of cheap trading units.
Maybe Rapier Carriers to fill up the last HS slots?


   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut






Oh silly me, my armylist got a combination of two different wardogs in one unit. So I'am going full brigand then..

EightFoldPath wrote:
I'd rather take Executioners (D3 is something we lack as well as D6+2) or Stalkers w/ daemonbreath (melee threat) over Brigands (the chaincannon is very much more of the same kind of shooting we have).


I don't like the executioner shooting, strength and ap to low in my opionion. I would either go full huntsmen with extra meltagun's or even Karnivores that got that extra advance, Wskill and attack if you are looking for a close combat punch. But i think brigands are better suited for the thousand sons playstyle. thousand sons want to play the mid-field in the first 2 or 3 rounds and cripple the enemy with mortal wounds and shooting before moving in. every anti-vehicle weapon is pointed at the brigand, and I like that because those weapons are not shooting at my terminators. At least the get to do some shooting of their own before the go down. The can also move all over the field and in combination with the spawns and rubric marines makes it hard for the enemy to deepstrike anything. Moving in close combat wardogs always end up exploding near each other because the got to move in the same direction to get close.

I also like the chaincannon + stubber shooting, and these days you either need decent anti-tank shooting or simply cheap S6 1 damage weapons because a lot of armies bring the ' you can only wound them on 4+' and -1 damage option. A full unit of 9 tyranid leviathan warriors takes a long time to take down with mortal wounds but those extra chaincannon shots really add up. Also no waist of damage with 1 damage weapons. I don't like to remember the times that I shot down the last wound on a Custodes jetbike with a 6 damage melta shot.


EightFoldPath wrote:
I am going to try some Vindicators/Las Preds on the tabletop soon I hope in a test game, but I suspect even at 120/115 they will feel expensive.


Yes, and those wardogs are not only fast but also objective secured and count as 5 models. Chaincannons are assault weapons so the could even move 12+d6 advance onto an objective and keep shooting.



Grotrebel wrote:Funny, I tried to reduce infantry/ psykers as well to make No Prisoners / Abhor / Assassinate harder for your opponent. But I think those 4 characters is where we wanna be right now.


Yes, and if these characters are dying then it went very wrong anyway. If a particular armylist gives you trouble then go for mutate landscape.




   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

The range on Executioners is super helpful though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/
[1,100] Ultramarines
[1,900] Chaos Knights
[1,000] Thousand Sons
[1,000] Grey Knights 
   
 
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