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2019/12/25 22:21:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
elook wrote: Hello Akaiyou!
Great post and thank you for sharing your ideas here on DakkaDakka. My question is, if you're running 4 C'Tans, why not opt for the Vault instead? You're saving points and you get better value on the powers using the Vault. So yeah, just want to know your thoughts on that.
Hi there,
To answer your question, it's actually pretty simple and covered in my previous post *I playtest everything I own* and while I do own a lot, I can hardly own everything :/ so that would be reason #1, I simply don't own a Vault so it doesn't get considered in anything I play.
That being said, I am in agreement with most of the responses to your question, the C'tans will get more mileage than a Vault on offense (quantity over quality) and are easier to defend generally via their own invul + character rule. A single vault can be killed T1 just like a Castellan Knight. However, I disagree on the ease of achieving this even when you have the right tools for the task. I often build lists that can 1 round a Knight if need be and this being a dice game, I can testify that if the stars don't align you are in for a bad day some times.
To sum that up, I wouldn't count on a single vault staying around too long in most cases so even if I owned one I would prefer 4 C'tans to 1 Vault. If you own a Vault and few C'tans I don't see a reason why not to use them in your own list. For example the Deceiver is still a very attractive choice at 180 the flexibility of redeploying things is something any list can make use of no matter what you have in it so give him a generally useful power like antimatter meteor and the vault can be the main damage dealer.
Like many of you, I am simply a fan of the Star Gods, and have tried to make them 'work' for many editions so that's yet another reason why I prefer to bring them instead of their fancy prison. Some times you should simply choose to play what you want to play.
If any are interested to see, this batrep was filmed pre-chapter approved featuring c'tan spam vs thousand sons, I personally feel after CA this whole thing just got much better value. In this game I started realizing how solid the strategy could be
I'm trying to creat a list around 1k-1,5k that with the Monolith.
This list should actually make use of the functions of the Monolith besides its shooting capabilitys.
But I don't rly like what i come up with so I would like your ideas.
Note: The list is just for fun games Not competitive.
2019/12/26 08:26:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Ye you can see the potential of bruisering with ctan pretty nice.
The list was pre ca. You got a lot point drops there now. Wraith dropped ctans dropped overlord dropped. That's a lot
2019/12/26 09:23:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm trying to create a list around 1k-1,5k that with the Monolith.
This list should actually make use of the functions of the Monolith besides its shooting capabilities.
But I don't really like what I come up with so I would like your ideas.
Note: The list is just for fun games Not competitive.
If it's just for fun take whatever you think is fun.Lord w. VoD & voidblade, Imotekh, 2x5 Teslamortals, 17 Warriors, Deceiver, Monolith, 3 Doomsday Arks.
2019/12/26 14:21:49
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm trying to create a list around 1k-1,5k that with the Monolith.
This list should actually make use of the functions of the Monolith besides its shooting capabilities.
But I don't really like what I come up with so I would like your ideas.
Note: The list is just for fun games Not competitive.
If it's just for fun take whatever you think is fun.Lord w. VoD & voidblade, Imotekh, 2x5 Teslamortals, 17 Warriors, Deceiver, Monolith, 3 Doomsday Arks.
OK. When i say fun list i don't think 3 DA rly fits
2019/12/26 15:37:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Folks like Akaiyou are out there doing tons of test games (much like I’m sure you all are) trying out different configurations and opponents. There is an opportunity, I’m sure, for folks to remark on specific interactions and combinations from which the test results would be interesting. Further, I have a fairly open play group who are fine with taking requests as to their builds for testing purposes—and I’m sure the same is true for many of you.
What are some of the list/opponent interactions for which we’d like more data that folks can test and come back with results information on?
For example:
I’d like to see more data points on Necron current meta lists versus IH. My play group doesn’t have any IH players at the moment so I can’t test this before the Q2 tournament scene ramps up.
2019/12/26 18:50:57
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
First you come into the thread spewing a bunch of crap about Flayed Ones, and now you choose to do the same for Deathmarks. Can you just leave please so we can actually discuss Necrons?
Lol. I was right then and moreso now. You're constant antagonism isn't going to change that.
I qualified my statement about Deathmarks. So go fly a kite.
You consistently used the wrong stats, wrong math, .
...But I didn't.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
First you come into the thread spewing a bunch of crap about Flayed Ones, and now you choose to do the same for Deathmarks. Can you just leave please so we can actually discuss Necrons?
Lol. I was right then and moreso now. You're constant antagonism isn't going to change that.
I qualified my statement about Deathmarks. So go fly a kite.
You consistently used the wrong stats, wrong math, .
...But I didn't.
You gave Flayed Ones 4 attacks instead of 3.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2019/12/26 19:22:18
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
There was the rumor of Szeras getting an updated model for our PA book release, would be nice to see Pariahs again on the table though I don't see them getting new models to make it happen.
2019/12/26 20:17:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Szeras makes sense, he isn't tied to a dynastic code so he can be taken by anyone and he offers an alternative to the current cryptek lineup which is pretty bad.
On that note, it would have been nice to just get a generic cryptek model with options but I won't hold my breath there.
Red Corsair wrote: Szeras makes sense, he isn't tied to a dynastic code so he can be taken by anyone and he offers an alternative to the current cryptek lineup which is pretty bad.
On that note, it would have been nice to just get a generic cryptek model with options but I won't hold my breath there.
I miss 6th Edition Royal Court Crypteks. :(
2019/12/26 22:19:22
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I've created a survey on Necron balance, it's pretty extensive but I hope you'll fill it out and provide feedback on how I can improve the format. https://surveyhero.com/c/68187f17
I tried the suggestion to use wraith as a screen to protect 3 transcendent ctans. I also added 7 scarab bases as screen. I was up against salamanders. My opponent counter deployed 6 flamestorm aggressors and two invictor warsuits. My initiative got stolen and on T1 he played two stratagems, one allowed the aggressors to auto hit with the maximum number of hits, and the other one was +1 to wound. The result was 144 flamer auto hits with +1 to wound, killing all of my 6 wraith, then intercessors killed the scarabs. The warsuits shot the ctans, did some damage, and charged them, killing two in melee. My dlord got charged by the aggressors, killing him. I managed to resurrect him with the nanoscarab casket. Result was 720 points lost in the first turn, half of my army (1.5k). In my turn i managed to kill one intercessor with the remaining ctan and his powers, and i killed one warsuit. The game was pretty much over, we still played T2, and he killed the third ctan, the dlord, and 8 tomb blades. All i had left was a cryptek and a DDA.
2019/12/28 10:40:18
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
p5freak wrote: I tried the suggestion to use wraith as a screen to protect 3 transcendent ctans. I also added 7 scarab bases as screen. I was up against salamanders. My opponent counter deployed 6 flamestorm aggressors and two invictor warsuits. My initiative got stolen and on T1 he played two stratagems, one allowed the aggressors to auto hit with the maximum number of hits, and the other one was +1 to wound. The result was 144 flamer auto hits with +1 to wound, killing all of my 6 wraith, then intercessors killed the scarabs. The warsuits shot the ctans, did some damage, and charged them, killing two in melee. My dlord got charged by the aggressors, killing him. I managed to resurrect him with the nanoscarab casket. Result was 720 points lost in the first turn, half of my army (1.5k). In my turn i managed to kill one intercessor with the remaining ctan and his powers, and i killed one warsuit. The game was pretty much over, we still played T2, and he killed the third ctan, the dlord, and 8 tomb blades. All i had left was a cryptek and a DDA.
How did the Aggressors get in range T1?
2019/12/28 10:49:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
We played open war cards, and the deployment zones touched each other. I deployed close, to get the wraith, scarabs and ctans in range T1, not a good idea.
2019/12/28 11:21:16
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Well bad deployement rules and wraiths have 12+3d6 threat range. You don't need to be close to reach. If there's salamander flame aggressors you don't go close as they one shot even knights if opponent lets them close.
Next time more sensible deployement rules and kill them from far. Not much short of titan can survive getting hit by those.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/12/28 15:52:47
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
8 is correct. Over 9” is 9.1”, but you only have to be within 1” of an enemy to complete a charge not in base contact. So 8.2”, +1 from MWBD to a 7.2” but you can’t roll fractions, so back to an 8.
It is I, Dio! Jk, I'm the Necron player (Ronny) in the above battle report with the C'tan spam vs Astra Militarum. The list is perfectly legal im a stickler for getting the rules correct when I play (a gift and a curse) I do swap powers mid game often when using Ctans if it fits the situation more than likely if i can bank mileage on Cosmic Fire, Thunderbolt or some times deal some few last wounds via Anti matter meteor. This is def a strong Stratagem to keep in mind every turn.
A little background on me (I play/own basically every faction) Necrons are one of my top 10 favs so im putting more effort into them as they will be my very first painted (by my own hand) faction. So you can expect more batreps and other Necron related things from www.battle-report.com
Competiively ive only attended 1 large event (BFS Team Event in 2018) to which i took Necrons which i painted to 3 color standard the week before. I went 3-0 on the first day taking on the likes of Beast Coast #2 and other good players at a time where Necrons honestly were widely considered the weakest faction (next to GK Of course) I dropped from day 2 of the event for "reasons" so i guess that's all to say you can expect to see me in the future at events trying to make Necrons Great Again. Or something do follow us if interested.
I also have play tested the hell out of Necrons both prior and post CA and id like to share my thoughts with you all even if we dont all need to necessarily agree. We can all benefit from shared experience
Post CA - Necrons Analysis
My thoughts after a lot of play testing with Necrons both prior to CA and after is as follows for those interested:
Overall Necrons want a battalion and possibly two additional specialised detachments (outrider/spearhead in most cases) to max cp count
Getting cheaper HQs which are most of the time a tax that only fills a support role in the army is very good for ensuring you can get a little extra muscle in there. Necron Lords and Overlords specially look very compelling to fit these requirements.
For starters i think you always want a solid anti tank weapon or several. Doomsday Arks x3 or Heavy Destroyers x9 seems the best suited to me to guarantee you can pack a long ranged punch. Due to the nature of Necrons most of the time you are stuck at midrange.
The outrider is where you really have the most flexibility and houses many of necrons best units. If you want to gear towards destroyers, wraiths, tomb blades this is where you want to finalize that selection to determine the rest of your list. An alternative to this outrider detachment is the Doom Scythe x3 airwing which was popularized by our very own Christopher. However i don't think that detachment is a must as the other options are solid options aswell.
What I think the airwing detachment does very well (better) is dishing out a ton of mortal wounds. Most armies just dont want any part of that but i feel thats a one turn gimmick that can fall apart if 1 flyer is dropped T1 which is very likely against most opponents.
Alternatively i have been putting serious serious play testing time with C'tans and for the most part found it to be very successful when properly supported. Without good support they perform worst than every other option mentioned prior. However with regards to tossing mortal wounds at your opponent they are the best option superior to the airwing even as they are more difficult to take out in a turn or two and can hit single targets aswell as blobs and castles. *Yes i am advocating for Ctans* post-CA they are a very respectable option for this interchangeable slot.
How many Ctans? Thats the next question i assume everyone would have. For starters always take the Deceiver if you have room for a Ctan he is the #1 draft pick because he gives you flexibility while still carrying out the main roll of mortal wound spitting just as good as any other. Secondly if you are taking more ctan take 4 total (the Deceiver+3 others) this maximizes your powers. Tested it enough to confirm its either *1* or *4* no inbetweens if you want maximum carnage.
The battalion should be the last thing you fill out specifically the HQ sections of all detachments should be our last concern as all HQs are there for support in most cases and are very interchangeable so accomodate them so they play their role while allowing the rest of your actual army to do it's job.
Have you considered running Nihilakh instead of Sautekh?
You gain Reclaim a Lost Empire, which on a C’tan gives them a 3++ (and with the right roll on Fractured Personality can in niche cases give a T.C’tan a 2++) and an extra Attack.
You gain reroll 1s to hit on your DDA backline.
You lose Imotekh (but get Trazyn with Surrogate Hosts to avoid giving up StW).
You lose Methodical Destruction, but the list seems CP hungry anyway.
You lose being able to more effectively gunship with your DDAs without worsening your chance to hit on the Doomsday Cannons.
I’m seriously considering a list of this sort for an upcoming Tournament, and came across this consideration. Thoughts?
(Edit: Autocorrect changed ‘Nihilakh’ to ‘Annihilation’.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/30 11:32:29
2019/12/30 13:03:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It is I, Dio! Jk, I'm the Necron player (Ronny) in the above battle report with the C'tan spam vs Astra Militarum. The list is perfectly legal im a stickler for getting the rules correct when I play (a gift and a curse) I do swap powers mid game often when using Ctans if it fits the situation more than likely if i can bank mileage on Cosmic Fire, Thunderbolt or some times deal some few last wounds via Anti matter meteor. This is def a strong Stratagem to keep in mind every turn.
A little background on me (I play/own basically every faction) Necrons are one of my top 10 favs so im putting more effort into them as they will be my very first painted (by my own hand) faction. So you can expect more batreps and other Necron related things from www.battle-report.com
Competiively ive only attended 1 large event (BFS Team Event in 2018) to which i took Necrons which i painted to 3 color standard the week before. I went 3-0 on the first day taking on the likes of Beast Coast #2 and other good players at a time where Necrons honestly were widely considered the weakest faction (next to GK Of course) I dropped from day 2 of the event for "reasons" so i guess that's all to say you can expect to see me in the future at events trying to make Necrons Great Again. Or something do follow us if interested.
I also have play tested the hell out of Necrons both prior and post CA and id like to share my thoughts with you all even if we dont all need to necessarily agree. We can all benefit from shared experience
Post CA - Necrons Analysis
My thoughts after a lot of play testing with Necrons both prior to CA and after is as follows for those interested:
Overall Necrons want a battalion and possibly two additional specialised detachments (outrider/spearhead in most cases) to max cp count
Getting cheaper HQs which are most of the time a tax that only fills a support role in the army is very good for ensuring you can get a little extra muscle in there. Necron Lords and Overlords specially look very compelling to fit these requirements.
For starters i think you always want a solid anti tank weapon or several. Doomsday Arks x3 or Heavy Destroyers x9 seems the best suited to me to guarantee you can pack a long ranged punch. Due to the nature of Necrons most of the time you are stuck at midrange.
The outrider is where you really have the most flexibility and houses many of necrons best units. If you want to gear towards destroyers, wraiths, tomb blades this is where you want to finalize that selection to determine the rest of your list. An alternative to this outrider detachment is the Doom Scythe x3 airwing which was popularized by our very own Christopher. However i don't think that detachment is a must as the other options are solid options aswell.
What I think the airwing detachment does very well (better) is dishing out a ton of mortal wounds. Most armies just dont want any part of that but i feel thats a one turn gimmick that can fall apart if 1 flyer is dropped T1 which is very likely against most opponents.
Alternatively i have been putting serious serious play testing time with C'tans and for the most part found it to be very successful when properly supported. Without good support they perform worst than every other option mentioned prior. However with regards to tossing mortal wounds at your opponent they are the best option superior to the airwing even as they are more difficult to take out in a turn or two and can hit single targets aswell as blobs and castles. *Yes i am advocating for Ctans* post-CA they are a very respectable option for this interchangeable slot.
How many Ctans? Thats the next question i assume everyone would have. For starters always take the Deceiver if you have room for a Ctan he is the #1 draft pick because he gives you flexibility while still carrying out the main roll of mortal wound spitting just as good as any other. Secondly if you are taking more ctan take 4 total (the Deceiver+3 others) this maximizes your powers. Tested it enough to confirm its either *1* or *4* no inbetweens if you want maximum carnage.
The battalion should be the last thing you fill out specifically the HQ sections of all detachments should be our last concern as all HQs are there for support in most cases and are very interchangeable so accomodate them so they play their role while allowing the rest of your actual army to do it's job.
Have you considered running Nihilakh instead of Sautekh?
You gain Reclaim a Lost Empire, which on a C’tan gives them a 3++ (and with the right roll on Fractured Personality can in niche cases give a T.C’tan a 2++) and an extra Attack.
You gain reroll 1s to hit on your DDA backline.
You lose Imotekh (but get Trazyn with Surrogate Hosts to avoid giving up StW).
You lose Methodical Destruction, but the list seems CP hungry anyway.
You lose being able to more effectively gunship with your DDAs without worsening your chance to hit on the Doomsday Cannons.
I’m seriously considering a list of this sort for an upcoming Tournament, and came across this consideration. Thoughts?
(Edit: Autocorrect changed ‘Nihilakh’ to ‘Annihilation’.)
C'tan (other than Vaults) don't get a Dynasty. Sautekh for DDAs is almost as good because of the increased manouverability and Methodical Destruction being more relevant for DDAs than Reclaim a Lost Empire.
Imotekh is ten times better than Trazyn, no discussion. Surrogate Hosts is crap, the cost is too big and you get one of the worst WL traits in the game as opposed to one of the top 2 WL traits in our codex.
Methodical Destruction costs the same as Reclaim, but it's way more powerful. I think you shouldn't run Nihilakh outside a DDA Spearhead or with (Gauss/Sentry) Pylons.
2019/12/30 13:24:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
It is I, Dio! Jk, I'm the Necron player (Ronny) in the above battle report with the C'tan spam vs Astra Militarum. The list is perfectly legal im a stickler for getting the rules correct when I play (a gift and a curse) I do swap powers mid game often when using Ctans if it fits the situation more than likely if i can bank mileage on Cosmic Fire, Thunderbolt or some times deal some few last wounds via Anti matter meteor. This is def a strong Stratagem to keep in mind every turn.
A little background on me (I play/own basically every faction) Necrons are one of my top 10 favs so im putting more effort into them as they will be my very first painted (by my own hand) faction. So you can expect more batreps and other Necron related things from www.battle-report.com
Competiively ive only attended 1 large event (BFS Team Event in 2018) to which i took Necrons which i painted to 3 color standard the week before. I went 3-0 on the first day taking on the likes of Beast Coast #2 and other good players at a time where Necrons honestly were widely considered the weakest faction (next to GK Of course) I dropped from day 2 of the event for "reasons" so i guess that's all to say you can expect to see me in the future at events trying to make Necrons Great Again. Or something do follow us if interested.
I also have play tested the hell out of Necrons both prior and post CA and id like to share my thoughts with you all even if we dont all need to necessarily agree. We can all benefit from shared experience
Post CA - Necrons Analysis
My thoughts after a lot of play testing with Necrons both prior to CA and after is as follows for those interested:
Overall Necrons want a battalion and possibly two additional specialised detachments (outrider/spearhead in most cases) to max cp count
Getting cheaper HQs which are most of the time a tax that only fills a support role in the army is very good for ensuring you can get a little extra muscle in there. Necron Lords and Overlords specially look very compelling to fit these requirements.
For starters i think you always want a solid anti tank weapon or several. Doomsday Arks x3 or Heavy Destroyers x9 seems the best suited to me to guarantee you can pack a long ranged punch. Due to the nature of Necrons most of the time you are stuck at midrange.
The outrider is where you really have the most flexibility and houses many of necrons best units. If you want to gear towards destroyers, wraiths, tomb blades this is where you want to finalize that selection to determine the rest of your list. An alternative to this outrider detachment is the Doom Scythe x3 airwing which was popularized by our very own Christopher. However i don't think that detachment is a must as the other options are solid options aswell.
What I think the airwing detachment does very well (better) is dishing out a ton of mortal wounds. Most armies just dont want any part of that but i feel thats a one turn gimmick that can fall apart if 1 flyer is dropped T1 which is very likely against most opponents.
Alternatively i have been putting serious serious play testing time with C'tans and for the most part found it to be very successful when properly supported. Without good support they perform worst than every other option mentioned prior. However with regards to tossing mortal wounds at your opponent they are the best option superior to the airwing even as they are more difficult to take out in a turn or two and can hit single targets aswell as blobs and castles. *Yes i am advocating for Ctans* post-CA they are a very respectable option for this interchangeable slot.
How many Ctans? Thats the next question i assume everyone would have. For starters always take the Deceiver if you have room for a Ctan he is the #1 draft pick because he gives you flexibility while still carrying out the main roll of mortal wound spitting just as good as any other. Secondly if you are taking more ctan take 4 total (the Deceiver+3 others) this maximizes your powers. Tested it enough to confirm its either *1* or *4* no inbetweens if you want maximum carnage.
The battalion should be the last thing you fill out specifically the HQ sections of all detachments should be our last concern as all HQs are there for support in most cases and are very interchangeable so accomodate them so they play their role while allowing the rest of your actual army to do it's job.
Have you considered running Nihilakh instead of Sautekh?
You gain Reclaim a Lost Empire, which on a C’tan gives them a 3++ (and with the right roll on Fractured Personality can in niche cases give a T.C’tan a 2++) and an extra Attack.
You gain reroll 1s to hit on your DDA backline.
You lose Imotekh (but get Trazyn with Surrogate Hosts to avoid giving up StW).
You lose Methodical Destruction, but the list seems CP hungry anyway.
You lose being able to more effectively gunship with your DDAs without worsening your chance to hit on the Doomsday Cannons.
I’m seriously considering a list of this sort for an upcoming Tournament, and came across this consideration. Thoughts?
(Edit: Autocorrect changed ‘Nihilakh’ to ‘Annihilation’.)
C'tan (other than Vaults) don't get a Dynasty. Sautekh for DDAs is almost as good because of the increased manouverability and Methodical Destruction being more relevant for DDAs than Reclaim a Lost Empire.
Imotekh is ten times better than Trazyn, no discussion. Surrogate Hosts is crap, the cost is too big and you get one of the worst WL traits in the game as opposed to one of the top 2 WL traits in our codex.
Methodical Destruction costs the same as Reclaim, but it's way more powerful. I think you shouldn't run Nihilakh outside a DDA Spearhead or with (Gauss/Sentry) Pylons.
Oh of course! I forgot footslogging C’tans don’t have Dynasty keywords.
Yea, nearly all the benefits evaporate at that point aside from helping the DDAs if the plan is for them to be stationary.
It could help a Wraith escort/screen if the scoring system is ETC with objective markers literally everywhere.
2019/12/30 17:11:59
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
When in the OP did anyone say anything about MWBD???? I clearly read what was written and didnt not invent other things that were not say.
The Overlord gives one infantry unit MWBD. So obviously the Lychguard would be given MWBD so even if VoD 9" away they still make a 8" charge with +1 to charge from MWBD.
If I was you man, I would read the codex before posting stuff online and looking dumb. The OP doesn't need to state anything about MWBD because it's already presumed to be given to them.
Smdh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/30 20:09:47
I forgot footslogging C’tans don’t have Dynasty keywords.
