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Well, that's pretty much what I expected, and why I was thinking of Feeder if I were to pledge. I suppose I'll just keep an eye on this and read more about it to decide, but I must admit I'm quite skeptical at this point.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Sorry, but you have to be quite stupid to assume that any company will "kill" GW in the next 5-7 years.

I distinctly remember some people saying Rick intended to rival 40k with this game. It was in fact being heralded as the new "40k-killer", though I don't know if Rick himself said as much or if it was just some over-enthusiastic supporters saying things they probably shouldn't have.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I distinctly remember some people saying Rick intended to rival 40k with this game. It was in fact being heralded as the new "40k-killer", though I don't know if Rick himself said as much or if it was just some over-enthusiastic supporters saying things they probably shouldn't have.

Trying to be a "40k-killer" in the wargaming industry is basically the same as trying to be a "WoW-killer" in the MMO industry. It just isn't going to happen.

 Melcavuk wrote:

If you want to see more join the discussions on the forum here:
http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php

For me, this emphasises one of the problems with this kickstater - the defensive attitude a lot of the backers have (eloquently demonstrated by Duncan). The retrenchment into an isolated community that rapidly becomes an echo chamber and those with the temerity to criticise or ask questions are immediately accused of not getting it.

The question I ask is - why should I drop my money on this? Yes, Rik is involved, and for that you have held my attention and piqued my interest. However, why should I, or any other, give patronage? What makes this so special above any other game? The driven by the community thing, for me, is a turn off. It sounds like designed by committee to me. What else do you have to offer? Fluid Combat status - well this comes across a bit like unit activation (akin to Epic:A) as opposed to the UGOIGO we're all accustomed to. Nothing new there. Where's the art direction? Where's the atmosphere?

 zedmeister wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:

If you want to see more join the discussions on the forum here:
http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php

For me, this emphasises one of the problems with this kickstater - the defensive attitude a lot of the backers have (eloquently demonstrated by Duncan). The retrenchment into an isolated community that rapidly becomes an echo chamber and those with the temerity to criticise or ask questions are immediately accused of not getting it.

The question I ask is - why should I drop my money on this? Yes, Rik is involved, and for that you have held my attention and piqued my interest. However, why should I, or any other, give patronage? What makes this so special above any other game? The driven by the community thing, for me, is a turn off. It sounds like designed by committee to me. What else do you have to offer? Fluid Combat status - well this comes across a bit like unit activation (akin to Epic:A) as opposed to the UGOIGO we're all accustomed to. Nothing new there. Where's the art direction? Where's the atmosphere?

Sorry I posted the link because I thought it was help, I didnt mean that to be involved in the project it was in any way a requirement to join the site (I got over eager I guess).

At this stage I'm guessing you've already seen hansa and the freeborn for their art direction and want to see a more broad and universal art style as demonstrated by various in-universe pics and model art/greens? (hopefully that'll be coming soon as it was on the list of upcoming updates). As for atmosphere of the game that is one aspect that hasnt been explored too well yet I agree, we know a basis for some of the factions and why they fight, but no real state of the universe in play, the approach to battles etc that can give you a good thematic theme to your games. Its something the team could do with clarifying.

I agree that there are some very passionate pro/anti GoA backers that can draw attention away from those more subdued or informative ones but please do not assume that everyone is shouting down ideas, contrary to popular belief the forums at this stage arent ruled by those who shout the loudest.

To summarise I really do like this project and want to see it succeed, the art/greens/information thus far appeals to me and to some other backers but it is completely understandable to want more before making a sizable investment. I do however hope that those people wanting more will keep checking back as more updates come out and I'll post them up here so that you dont have to check the kickstarter page daily.

Thanks

I dont think Rick stated he wanted to rival GW with this, well not at least for a good few years if its succesfull.

A lot of people jump on the 'GW-slayer' type wagon with MMO's saying they will all kill WOW etc, in the end they all dont, as wow was the first big one and is set in its ways, its comfy as it were.

Most new MMO's do okay and trickle on with the odd big success, i.e. guild wars.

With this i think its just start something new and see how it goes.

 Melcavuk wrote:


At this stage I'm guessing you've already seen hansa and the freeborn for their art direction and want to see a more broad and universal art style as demonstrated by various in-universe pics and model art/greens? (hopefully that'll be coming soon as it was on the list of upcoming updates). As for atmosphere of the game that is one aspect that hasnt been explored too well yet I agree, we know a basis for some of the factions and why they fight, but no real state of the universe in play, the approach to battles etc that can give you a good thematic theme to your games. Its something the team could do with clarifying.

I agree that there are some very passionate pro/anti GoA backers that can draw attention away from those more subdued or informative ones but please do not assume that everyone is shouting down ideas, contrary to popular belief the forums at this stage arent ruled by those who shout the loudest.

To summarise I really do like this project and want to see it succeed, the art/greens/information thus far appeals to me and to some other backers but it is completely understandable to want more before making a sizable investment. I do however hope that those people wanting more will keep checking back as more updates come out and I'll post them up here so that you dont have to check the kickstarter page daily.

Thanks

Indeed, and I was in for the limited rulebook and I do keep checking up on it. But it is missing that feeling, that compelling draw of the universe, that attachment to a certain faction that grows as your collection does. That's whats missing at present. It's very logical and clinical but not very emotional (if that makes sense)...

It would be more relevant IMO to look at Privateer Press, as a recent entrant into the market. Founded in 2000. Shocking I know, it seems like yesterday.

It has taken them at least 10 years to explode, develop and to attain their short term goals, they continue to push onwards and grow their business.

If BGoA/DSc, and their supporters want it to take off then they need to be in it for the long haul.

 zedmeister wrote:
But it is missing that feeling, that compelling draw of the universe, that attachment to a certain faction that grows as your collection does. That's whats missing at present. It's very logical and clinical but not very emotional (if that makes sense)...

Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. Aside from not a whole lot of models to show there's no "draw" to the universe yet.

My sort-of-first-contact with 40k was the reviews of the original Space Hulk video game. The pics and the reviews oozed a feel of a desperate, doomed battle, Space Marine terminators fighting in cramped metal corridors against a relentless xeno onslaught. Suitably "grimdark", as it were! And despite not even playing the game, that feeling always stuck with me and surfaced when I thought of 40k. It took me 'til 2012 to actually get into 40k (and realistically I wouldn't have had people to play with prior to 2006 anyway unless I had bought the armies for my brothers to play with), but the draw was always there ever since Space Hulk. Both to play and to expand my knowledge of the setting. And then when I got my hands on Space Marine during summer (I dabbled a few missions of DoW II even prior to Space Marine - but I'm not that much into RTS games as a genre so SM grabbed me more) the deal was sealed, so to speak.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Melcavuk wrote:

If you want to see more join the discussions on the forum here:
http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/index.php

For me, this emphasises one of the problems with this kickstater - the defensive attitude a lot of the backers have (eloquently demonstrated by Duncan). The retrenchment into an isolated community that rapidly becomes an echo chamber and those with the temerity to criticise or ask questions are immediately accused of not getting it.

Lets be honest, while there are some legitimate concerns one may have with this kickstarter, a lot of the criticism, especially in the last few pages, has been bordering on the ridiculous, and coupled with repeated chants of imminent doom about the project, really make it appear that some, who likely never would have invested in it anyway, are in many ways rooting for it to fail.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets be honest, while there are some legitimate concerns one may have with this kickstarter, a lot of the criticism, especially in the last few pages, has been bordering on the ridiculous, and coupled with repeated chants of imminent doom about the project, really make it appear that some, who likely never would have invested in it anyway, are in many ways rooting for it to fail.

Really?

You have an example for someone rooting for it to fail from those "last few pages"?

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Sorry, but you have to be quite stupid to assume that any company will "kill" GW in the next 5-7 years.

I distinctly remember some people saying Rick intended to rival 40k with this game. It was in fact being heralded as the new "40k-killer", though I don't know if Rick himself said as much or if it was just some over-enthusiastic supporters saying things they probably shouldn't have.

The only thing Rick P has said regarding 40k is that he'd consider GoA a tremendous success if they made it to 1% of GW (which I guess 1% of 200 million pounds eh?)

It's very interesting, this talk about how there isn't demand for female miniatures. Just a few moments ago I received an email from raging Heroes about their upcoming campaign on kickstarter, with the following point;

What happened to our other projects?

In the past year, we shared some of our plans for several upcoming releases. But many of them never made it to market. We thought you'd like a follow-up on this.
So, what's happened with our 7-Sins project, with our big monsters (dragon, phoenix, etc.), and with the damned and doomed Akzeltolt?
Well, in a simple rude phrase that we don't much like : lack of profitability.
Ouch, we've said it.
They're tough choices to make, but in the end, we do have to pay the rent every month :-(

And that's why, for now, we are focusing on our female miniatures because you seem to like them quite a bit, and you're finding many ways of including them in your games.
So you can expect to see many more of these in the next few months, in both Fantasy and SciFi.
(And if you want something specific in the female category, we are listening !)

Anecdotally, this rather seems to be in keeping with the evidence that female miniatures... (of all types) work very well on kickstarter.

 Rolt wrote:
Oh well.

Spoiler:

Looks like its 100% guaranteed that the one thing that interested me about this project from the start isn't going to happen. I know its a niche field and maybe a little sad of me, but I really wanted to see an anthropomorphic race or at the very least a small squad of characters, mainly because it would fulfil an interest of mine I can't currently buy elsewhere. But after seeing crap like this http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=99&start=110" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=99&start=110 (Page 12, 6th post), its obvious to say this project is moving quite squarely in the direction of "he who shouts the loudest, wins" and going by the attitudes of various posters in the GoA community, I think it's obvious I'm not going to ever click with this game and its crowd, hell just read the whole thread. At the end of the day it's not actually the whole "No Furries" thing that bugs me, it's just the inevitable blandness this game is going to turn into as a whole, so many people are so obsessed with throwing up "because Hard-Science" every two seconds as an excuse for their personal grievances that any unique or interesting ideas this project could have are dying a slow death. ...

That thread, along with the comments about female miniatures, is an excellent example of everything that seems wrong with this project. "hard scifi" is not a term used to shape the universe, but a cudgel for opinionated people to use to beat down things that they don't like (never minding how hard scifi in no way supports their arguments).

In other news, designing something by committee results in homogenised product.

Now the weather...

Every few pages I swing by this thread for updates to the KS and I'm constantly seeing furry comments and even made a joke about it earlier. Whats with all the furry interest in this project that you don't see in existing game threads and other kick starters? Is it just a vocal minority that heard about the whole "help us design the game" idea and thought that this was their moment or was/is there some sort of anthropomorphic theme in this game besides just space monkeys?

Just vocal wishlisting.

 warboss wrote:
Every few pages I swing by this thread for updates to the KS and I'm constantly seeing furry comments and even made a joke about it earlier. Whats with all the furry interest in this project that you don't see in existing game threads and other kick starters? Is it just a vocal minority that heard about the whole "help us design the game" idea and thought that this was their moment or was/is there some sort of anthropomorphic theme in this game besides just space monkeys?

I dunno. But I think it ties in with the idea of body-modification and transhumanism and having factions that don't look like they fell out of a drunken fight in a Weatherspoons carpark between groups of Firefly, Mass Effect and Generic Space Hobo cosplayers. Which is understandable. People want variety, and realistic-looking "furry" body-modders would certainly be different. And by people, I have no idea who I mean. I just assume people like having a bigger selection of stuff.

For what it's worth, I don't have a horse in this race. I'd like to see it succeed, but I'm content to wait for the rules to show up in the shops, as I'm already backing Rivet Wars and the new Warriors of Chaos are wondering if I'd like to finally start that chess-themed Tzeentch army. I will say what I have seen isn't bad (The green? Great stuff!) but hardly earth-shattering or enough to make me throw money at the screen. But the mechanics? Setting be damned, if the rules allow for easy conversion to other settings, I'm happy to pick it up. But I'm not hugely interested in helping the crowd build the setting - either my ideas are so terrible I'd never inflict them on anyone, or (I think) they're so brilliant I hoard them like precious gems. Except the intelligent housecats with opposable thumbs in humanoid robot battlesuits. That one's pure gold, but you're welcome to it, internet.

They should have designed the green for War Drones first.

Concord update will be coming today with Wardrones coming in tomorrow according to the kickstarter. Might be a little late but looking forward to both

 Buzzsaw wrote:
It's very interesting, this talk about how there isn't demand for female miniatures.

The funniest thing about that? "You can't get enough female miniatures in our opinion." And where's that from?

Dun dun dun......

From the BTGOA kickstarter page!

 tvih wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
It's very interesting, this talk about how there isn't demand for female miniatures.

The funniest thing about that? "You can't get enough female miniatures in our opinion." And where's that from?

Dun dun dun......

From the BTGOA kickstarter page!

Not that I don't believe you, but where?

Can you quote it for us?

Ouch!

Also, while there's still time today, BTGOA KS is looking at their first day in the red right now...

wildger wrote:
They should have designed the green for War Drones first.

If enough people like it the KS soars to new heights. If too many don't it crashes and burns. But yes, given the importance of the WD's to so many armies....

I assumed that this was the Wardrone

 Melcavuk wrote:
Concord update will be coming today with Wardrones coming in tomorrow according to the kickstarter. Might be a little late but looking forward to both

Looking forward to that too.

I think they need to "learn" to create momentum with their updates though. The Space-Hobo thing was nice. Everyone like it. Than things went silent again.

I dunno. They just need to get a kind of Kickstarter-narrative going. Monday to Thursday, artwork updates. Friday a big public poll on which artwork should go to the sculptors first. Saturday a fluff/game-mechanic update. Sunday a first early green from a tired sculptor based on the friday-poll. Next Monday, start again. Get a wave going.

I know people have been asking for updates, especially of the visual kind. And they are nice. But once a week without "follow-up" tied to the artwork makes them fizzle.

Yes I agree Zweischneid, think they could definitely do with a few more project managers. Sadly I've not been able to bring any news from the KS the last few days - Sedition Wars arrived, and I attended a miniature convention so have been up to my neck in new toys already

 Melcavuk wrote:
Concord update will be coming today with Wardrones coming in tomorrow according to the kickstarter. Might be a little late but looking forward to both

Really looking forward to what these look like!

 warboss wrote:
Every few pages I swing by this thread for updates to the KS and I'm constantly seeing furry comments and even made a joke about it earlier. Whats with all the furry interest in this project that you don't see in existing game threads and other kick starters? Is it just a vocal minority that heard about the whole "help us design the game" idea and thought that this was their moment or was/is there some sort of anthropomorphic theme in this game besides just space monkeys?

For me it was this picture:



I am NOT into Furrys. Not my thing. But as I posted earlier, I've always thought the Kzinti, and a few other cat like Alien races were cool. The cat like critter in the picture made me think that it would be fun to have a Kzinti like army, which would be unique for games out there.

What isn't unique is generic muscle men with guns.

 warboss wrote:
Every few pages I swing by this thread for updates to the KS and I'm constantly seeing furry comments and even made a joke about it earlier. Whats with all the furry interest in this project that you don't see in existing game threads and other kick starters? Is it just a vocal minority that heard about the whole "help us design the game" idea and thought that this was their moment or was/is there some sort of anthropomorphic theme in this game besides just space monkeys?

The theme is kinda baked right into the cake. That is, the official concept art is difficult to describe as anything but anthro. There is not a lot of concept art of anything, but they bothered to do some for some feline-humanoids.


EDIT: beat to it! Anyway, yeah, the furry references are based on the fact that the Panhuman faction is... as near as anything as been described, having some things that are, prima facia, human-animal hybrids.

Don't forget these fine specimens.

The start of drone greens is now up on the kickstarter:

Hi brilliant backers! Thank you very much for being a part of this, we're constantly humbled by the shear amount of creativity within the forums and the support you guys are giving us, we'll make it yet!

Today's update is the one you've been waiting for - Kev has started on our WarDrone model! We'll be modelling a number of WarDrones as we refine towards our plastic version. The others will be used for faction specific WarDrones or specific function WarDrones like the Hunter or Targetter WarDrone. This is stage 1, and just like Hansa, Kev will be taking us through his creative thought process as he builds it(him?).

Talk soon!

Rik

I'm holding my breath here. This kit has to be good if this Kickstarter is to succeed for me.

so far so good, liking the post a lot.